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Is there a Price Guide for 8 Reales? (Pics of 1773-"Inverted Mo FM" 8 Reale added courtesy

SeaEagleCoinsSeaEagleCoins Posts: 3,262 ✭
in World & Ancient Coins Forum
...and, if so, where would I find it?

Thank you for any help you might be able to give...


I have a recently holdered 1773-Mo FM "Inverted Mo" 8 Reale...PCGS gave it an XF-45 and it is the only one of this type/date they ever graded...

How can I determine it's value?
Re: Slabbed coins - There are some coins that LIVE within clear plastic and wear their labels with pride... while there are others that HIDE behind scratched plastic and are simply dragged along by a label. Then there are those coins that simply hang out, naked and free image

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    TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,541 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Very cool variety, SeaEagle image Does your have inverted assayer, as well? I currently have a 1772 inverted initials and mint-mark at PCGS, hoping for a nice XF gradel. There aren't really any accurate price guides when it comes to this series. Krause is often unreasonably under-priced and I would rather rely on past auction prices to estimate the value. It's hard to judge the scarcity of the coin based purely on PCGS population reports. If you look through it - most 8 Reales numbers for the late-colonial era are low. Some - non-existant. I can check Calbeto's "Compendium" for you when I get home from work. That should at least tell you the relative scarcity of this variety.

    And of course - WE WANT PICTURES image

    Cheers,

    ~Roman

    8 Reales Madness Collection
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    SeaEagleCoinsSeaEagleCoins Posts: 3,262 ✭
    Thanks TwoKopeicki --- I don't know much about these but have always liked the look of them. From what I can tell (the label says Inverted) both the Mo and FM are inverted...with my lack of knowledge I don't know if one of these is the assayer...image

    ...as for pics...I'll see what I can do...I only have an HP scanner (not a camera personimage ...)

    I'll scan and try to post pics...

    BTW...I just did a search thru Heritage Archives and couldn't find one...
    Re: Slabbed coins - There are some coins that LIVE within clear plastic and wear their labels with pride... while there are others that HIDE behind scratched plastic and are simply dragged along by a label. Then there are those coins that simply hang out, naked and free image
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    sTONERsTONER Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭
    here you go my friend imageimageimage
    toner loner
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    rah1959rah1959 Posts: 964 ✭


    << <i>here you go my friend imageimageimage >>




    That is super cool looking....thanks for sharing!
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    BSBS Posts: 1,318 ✭✭✭
    Nice coin. Try searching here.Text
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    SeaEagleCoinsSeaEagleCoins Posts: 3,262 ✭
    Thanks BS...

    I just did the search with no results...

    I'm beginning to think this might be a 'rare' date/variety...

    Dare I dream? image
    Re: Slabbed coins - There are some coins that LIVE within clear plastic and wear their labels with pride... while there are others that HIDE behind scratched plastic and are simply dragged along by a label. Then there are those coins that simply hang out, naked and free image
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    TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,541 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Not to get you discouraged, but both 1772 and 1773 had the assayer and m/m inverted. The rare variety for 1773 is the "normal" alignment, I believe. I'll check the references tonight. In any case - it's a great-looking coin.

    8 Reales Madness Collection
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    TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,541 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ok, I'm home. Here's what the references have to say on this:

    Calbeto #804, but it appears to have been struck using the obverse die from #805 (as indicated by the positioning of the legend and "flat-bottom" I in GRATIA. Listed as "scarce". I had the 1772 and 1773 mixed-up in terms of rarity for the "normal" assayer alignment. For 1772 normal alignment is very rare, however the 1773 with normal assayer and mint-mark is listed as "common".

    Krause KM# 106.1 lists 1773 inverted at $175 in XF in my edition (2002). Normal legend 1773 (KM#106.2) lists in the same edition at $160 in XF.

    Pillars & Portraits #491 lists it cheaper than the "normal" legend, for some reason ...

    Myself, I'd be willing to pay $275 for that coin without a second though image

    8 Reales Madness Collection
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    SeaEagleCoinsSeaEagleCoins Posts: 3,262 ✭
    Thanks for the info Roman!!

    ...and I'll keep that offer in mind when I'm ready to sell...image

    ...but tonite I'm on my way out the door to a Coin Club meeting and I'm bringing this coin along for show & tell...

    ...thanks to you I now have something to say about it besides "here is a real cool coin" ...image
    Re: Slabbed coins - There are some coins that LIVE within clear plastic and wear their labels with pride... while there are others that HIDE behind scratched plastic and are simply dragged along by a label. Then there are those coins that simply hang out, naked and free image
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    coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,812 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Now I am confused... I thought the 1773 was the tougher of the two dates. I think I have the 1772... need to check on that

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

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    TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,541 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sure thing image Good luck at the coin club and please let me know if you decide to sell. I would also like to ask your permission to use your images in the database I'm putting together of portrait 8 Reales series that compares grading standards of top TPGs.

    Coinkat, here's the break-down for the two years:

    1772 with normal legend - extremely rare
    1772, inverted, MF assayer - scarce
    1772, inverted, FM assayer (as pictured below) - common
    1772, inverted, FM assayer but with upside-down V's instead of A's in the legend - very rare

    1773, inverted, FM (original poster's coin) - scarce
    1773, normal legend - common

    P.S. Here's the 1772 I picked-up at F.U.N. for $150 and it's on the way to PCGS right now:

    image

    8 Reales Madness Collection
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    coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,812 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nice one Roman...

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

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    TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,541 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks, Coinkat. It has some interesting struck-through damage on the portrait.

    8 Reales Madness Collection
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    bidaskbidask Posts: 13,879 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Ok, I'm home. Here's what the references have to say on this:

    Calbeto #804, but it appears to have been struck using the obverse die from #805 (as indicated by the positioning of the legend and "flat-bottom" I in GRATIA. Listed as "scarce". I had the 1772 and 1773 mixed-up in terms of rarity for the "normal" assayer alignment. For 1772 normal alignment is very rare, however the 1773 with normal assayer and mint-mark is listed as "common".

    Krause KM# 106.1 lists 1773 inverted at $175 in XF in my edition (2002). Normal legend 1773 (KM#106.2) lists in the same edition at $160 in XF.

    Pillars & Portraits #491 lists it cheaper than the "normal" legend, for some reason ...

    Myself, I'd be willing to pay $275 for that coin without a second though image >>

    You are a numismatist!
    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




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    SeaEagleCoinsSeaEagleCoins Posts: 3,262 ✭


    << <i>Sure thing image Good luck at the coin club and please let me know if you decide to sell. I would also like to ask your permission to use your images in the database I'm putting together of portrait 8 Reales series that compares grading standards of top TPGs.

    Coinkat, here's the break-down for the two years:

    1772 with normal legend - extremely rare
    1772, inverted, MF assayer - scarce
    1772, inverted, FM assayer (as pictured below) - common
    1772, inverted, FM assayer but with upside-down V's instead of A's in the legend - very rare

    1773, inverted, FM (original poster's coin) - scarce
    1773, normal legend - common

    P.S. Here's the 1772 I picked-up at F.U.N. for $150 and it's on the way to PCGS right now:

    image
    >>




    Very nice example, Roman!! Based on your pics and the grade given my coin...I'd guess you might get an AU grade...hope you do!!

    All went well at the club meeting...folks liked the coin...no one there was able to add much to what I had to say (thanks to youimage ...) ...although one person there added that these coins were accepted/used for money here in the US prior to the formation of our own Mint. I already knew this and it is why I wanted one for my early US type set...but had forgotten to add that info in my short presentation.

    Anyway...Thank you for your help...and when/if I decide to sell I'll let you know...


    Also...I'd like to say that it is very nice here "on the Darkside" ... (not at all like Star Wars image ...) ...

    Funny/sad to say that the "Light Side" forum is more like the Star Wars version of the Dark Side... if you know what I mean...


    image
    Re: Slabbed coins - There are some coins that LIVE within clear plastic and wear their labels with pride... while there are others that HIDE behind scratched plastic and are simply dragged along by a label. Then there are those coins that simply hang out, naked and free image
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    GDJMSPGDJMSP Posts: 799 ✭


    << <i>

    1772 with normal legend - extremely rare >>




    Roman, there are only 2 specimens known. One of them is in the Bank of Mexico collection.
    knowledge ........ share it
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    TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,541 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Roman, there are only 2 specimens known. One of them is in the Bank of Mexico collection. >>



    Didn't know that, Doug! Thank you for the information.

    8 Reales Madness Collection
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    AUPTAUPT Posts: 806 ✭✭✭
    Any idea why the 4th Edition 1701-1800 Standard Catalog does not list the inverted 1773 variety, the inverted 1772 MF nor the 1772 inverted MF with upside-down Vs for As?
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    TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,541 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Any idea why the 4th Edition 1701-1800 Standard Catalog does not list the inverted 1773 variety, the inverted 1772 MF nor the 1772 inverted MF with upside-down Vs for As? >>



    Krause is not a specialized reference and many varieties are not included. There's a Krause Errata post somewhere on the boards that also lists certain denominations not listed, at all.

    8 Reales Madness Collection
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    MeijiMeiji Posts: 170 ✭✭
    Great pickup for 150.00 Roman image
    I wish I can find deals like that.. lol
    Good luck on the submission, I'm guessing XF45.. abit too much hits on the reverse for an AU grade IMO.
    Let us know what you get
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    TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,541 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I'm guessing XF45.. >>



    That's what I'm shooting for image

    8 Reales Madness Collection
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    sTONERsTONER Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭
    this is a great thread and a great coin, any other info guys ???
    toner loner
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    TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,541 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>this is a great thread and a great coin, any other info guys ??? >>



    Sure, what would you like to know image ?

    8 Reales Madness Collection
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    dizzleccdizzlecc Posts: 1,111 ✭✭✭
    Do you mind sharing why you are having it graded?

    It seems that the majority of world coins are kept in raw form.

    The trends is starting to move toward to graded coins but the pops are still very low at both services.

    I don't mind buying raw coins but I need to have faith that the source is trust worthy. I'm more relaxed about the source when buying slabbed coins.
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    TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,541 ✭✭✭✭✭
    dizzlecc, I'm working towards increasing PCGS population reports, building a business case for my long-term vision of introducing Mexico to PCGS registry. Also, for my problem-free coins, I like PCGS slabs as a storage solution. Personally, I have no problem with identifying counterfeits for this series (and there are lots of them), especially when I have the coin in-hand.

    8 Reales Madness Collection
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    dizzleccdizzlecc Posts: 1,111 ✭✭✭
    I'm with you on building the pcgs pop reports and eventually getting to a registry set.

    I'm still new to 8 reales but I like what I see. I have a local dealer that I'm buying cap and rays from that are raw. When I get a decent number I would like submit. I think it will help with me grading of the series and long term goals.
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    TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,541 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Good luck! Large supply of cap'n'rays (especially pre-standardized dies) should give you a good introduction to counterfeits image I hope you've already got your hands on a copy of "Resplandores" by Dunigan and Parker.

    8 Reales Madness Collection
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    dizzleccdizzlecc Posts: 1,111 ✭✭✭
    Yeah I have a copy of Resplandores. I pretty much refer to it before I consider any purchases. It contains a lot of information.

    It helps me go after the right level of coins and stay away from the more common stuff in average grades.

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    AUPTAUPT Posts: 806 ✭✭✭
    On the subject of Mexican specialty books. Any other recommendations on titles that go into great depth on varieties, etc., but aren't too out of date. Not interested in prices, just listings of what's out there. I've got the usual titles, e.g., Standard Catalog series, SC of Mexican Coins, etc., by Bruce; Buttrey/Hubbard's Guide Book 2nd (1971) edition; Utberg's Coins of Colonial Mexico 1536-1821 (1966 ed.); Utberg's Coins of Mexico 1536-1963). Thanks much!
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    sTONERsTONER Posts: 1,904 ✭✭✭
    hey Roman any word on your 8 reale from PCGS yet ??
    toner loner
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    TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,541 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>hey Roman any word on your 8 reale from PCGS yet ?? >>



    I wouldn't know for a while. It was received on the 28th of January with a large lot of other coins under World Economy (est. 35-40 business days). Best case scenario ~ mid-March image

    8 Reales Madness Collection
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    TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,541 ✭✭✭✭✭
    AUPT - for the 8 Reales cobs and Portrait 8 Reales series I use Calbeto's "Compendium de las piezas de Ocho Reales". Cayon's "Las Monedas Españolas" for all the denominations. "Pillars and Portraits" by Robert P. Harris is another good general reference.

    8 Reales Madness Collection
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    sinin1sinin1 Posts: 7,500 ✭
    how did your coin grade?


    you mentioned obverse strike through -


    I am seeing heart shaped graffiti on lower left by upper back/lower neck
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    TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,541 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>how did your coin grade?


    you mentioned obverse strike through -


    I am seeing heart shaped graffiti on lower left by upper back/lower neck >>



    Whoa - way to resurrect and old post image

    The coin graded XF45 and is still a part of my primary collection. What you see as graffiti is the strike-through. Under magnification you can see that it's not post-mint damage, since the "scratch" does not have displaced metal around the edges of it.

    8 Reales Madness Collection
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