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A Message from the President - Volume Discounts/Relative Scarcity
JoeOrlando
Posts: 122 mod
Please keep in mind that, just like with raw card submissions, reviews for the half-point system are eligible for volume discounts.
Submitters can contact PSA directly, including me, to discuss a price break.
I want the board members to know that we understand that while reviewing a 1958 Topps Mantle or vintage common may be considered a no-brainer to most, that it may not be true with all issues.
Generally speaking, once you start moving towards the 1970's to present, it will be easier to obtain cards such as PSA 8.5's simply due to the quality of the available cards in the marketplace (due to so much unopened/vending material, etc).
In those cases, reviewing common cards may present a tough financial proposition and we realize that. In those cases, please contact PSA and - perhaps - we can present a price point that better suits your submissions.
Like I said, it may be a no-brainer on a 1952 Topps common or a 1933 Goudey but, if you have a 1972 Topps card, we can always discuss a discount in exchange for volume.
In addition, for those who are skeptical of the process (meaning you are curious about what the qualifications will be or what an 8.5 will look like), you can either wait to see PSA product emerge once the system is live or test the process with small quantities at first.
The bottom line is we want you to succeed. There can be a lot of upside to reviewing your cards but part of that is dependant on your success rate so please do your best to pre-screen your cards prior to submitting them. For many, many issues, your success rate will not have to be very high to add substantial value to your collection but hey - the higher the rate, the better.
On another note...I did make an offer to all of you that if you would like to discuss the half-point system with me directly, to simply call me at my extension at PSA.
To this point, I have not received ONE phone call as a result of that offer. I have talked to many dealers and collectors who do not participate on the boards but, for some reason, no one here has decided to take me up on the offer.
In any event, the offer still stands. I have to leave soon but I will be in next week.
Take care,
Joe Orlando
President
Submitters can contact PSA directly, including me, to discuss a price break.
I want the board members to know that we understand that while reviewing a 1958 Topps Mantle or vintage common may be considered a no-brainer to most, that it may not be true with all issues.
Generally speaking, once you start moving towards the 1970's to present, it will be easier to obtain cards such as PSA 8.5's simply due to the quality of the available cards in the marketplace (due to so much unopened/vending material, etc).
In those cases, reviewing common cards may present a tough financial proposition and we realize that. In those cases, please contact PSA and - perhaps - we can present a price point that better suits your submissions.
Like I said, it may be a no-brainer on a 1952 Topps common or a 1933 Goudey but, if you have a 1972 Topps card, we can always discuss a discount in exchange for volume.
In addition, for those who are skeptical of the process (meaning you are curious about what the qualifications will be or what an 8.5 will look like), you can either wait to see PSA product emerge once the system is live or test the process with small quantities at first.
The bottom line is we want you to succeed. There can be a lot of upside to reviewing your cards but part of that is dependant on your success rate so please do your best to pre-screen your cards prior to submitting them. For many, many issues, your success rate will not have to be very high to add substantial value to your collection but hey - the higher the rate, the better.
On another note...I did make an offer to all of you that if you would like to discuss the half-point system with me directly, to simply call me at my extension at PSA.
To this point, I have not received ONE phone call as a result of that offer. I have talked to many dealers and collectors who do not participate on the boards but, for some reason, no one here has decided to take me up on the offer.
In any event, the offer still stands. I have to leave soon but I will be in next week.
Take care,
Joe Orlando
President
Joe Orlando
CEO, Collectors Universe, Inc.
CEO, Collectors Universe, Inc.
0
Comments
Steve
From what I've read and written, well over 90% of collector's are extremely displeased with your decision.
I think you have done a huge disservice to those of us that once held PSA in very high esteem not to mention those of us that have high-end Registry sets.
Money Joe, that's all you care about!
But, we will keep in mind to "never get cheated".
Regards,
Al - mcmlvtopps
All 1 through 8 PSA grade cards without a qualifier, are worthy of inspection for a possible increase above the norm, to a potential half grade bump.
Only poor, fair, very good, NM, NM/MT , Etc. cards have a change of being above the typical, standard, normal, average or whatever best describes the level within the specific grade.
And all PSA 9s are above inspection ?
All PSA 9s are similar, identical, each one not remotely possible of being a bit above the norm ?
There are not some, perhaps small differences in centering, corners, clarity, focus, reverse side quality, Etc., in any PSA 9s ?
Why allow Beckett, SGC, GAI, and other companies, to be exclusively able to evaluate a 9 from a 9.5, and a 9.5 from a 10 ?
Why allow those companies the inside track for modern cards, those most common in 9, 9.5, and 10 rank.
If half grades are needed, they are needed for all levels, to be consistent with the change,
PLEASE add the half grade for nines.
Al that was extemely unfair IMO. People could call and ask a multitude of questions.
If I had pre war cards I'd call and ask what if I sent in cards and PSA now found the 8 I sent in was altered or a counterfiet? What happens to that card?
I am sure many people have questions that they could talk about. You may not and that is ok too.
Steve
I'll go with above comment--"What's to discuss??" You have made your mind up at to what PSA is going to do. But thanks for letting us waste thousands of dollars for the even grades though. You can consider this my phone call to you. I don't need to waste another dollar on this subject. The registry board is now officially a joke!!
the one group you dont want to piss off in business is your CUSTOMERS. and it seems a whole lot of them are upset about this. i would listen to the customers. often times companies will do this sort of stuff as a last ditch effort to survive. perhaps submissions are just methodically dwindling and this is all PSA could come up with.
<< <i>Why allow Beckett, SGC, GAI, and other companies, to be exclusively able to evaluate a 9 from a 9.5, and a 9.5 from a 10 ?
Why allow those companies the inside track for modern cards, those most common in 9, 9.5, and 10 rank.
>>
PSA has it right here. SGC is really the only other credible grading company and their 10s are so rare they are irrelevant.
Are you now to become the hall monitor for posts? I think you are out of line to claim my post was "extremely unfair". I have my opinion and you have yours, be decent enough to not play judge and jury because you don't like the tone, or content of my post. Isn't this supposed to be an open forum? Do you have over $40k invested in PSA graded cards like I do? Posts are like the grading system, subjective, nothing more, nothing less.
I find it rather dubious that Orlando states not "ONE" call has been made to him over this topic. Thousands and thousands of Registry sets, thousands and thousands of collectors, but not "ONE" call...please! Let us not forget Orlando's own words in a post in 2003 "WE WOULD BE CRAZY TO DO THAT". Yes, in caps and you can find it under the Davalillo thread. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what he wrote, among other things indicating PSA would not go to a half point system. I guess he had an epiphany, and it came at the expense of those who made PSA what it is today.
What's to discuss? The new system has been shoved down our throats. Oh, he's probably a good listener, but where is the honesty? Where is the caring for those that got him where he is today? Pretty obvious to me that integrity is nowhere to be found. Do you really think many people give a rip about garnering another half point in the Registry? And what hoops you now have to jump through in order to get it? LUNACY!!!
I have 119 PSA 8s in my 55 Topps set, do you really, REALLY think I'm gonna submit these cards for this wonderous half point crap? What do you think that would cost me to do so? Did Orlando ponder this as he stirred his brew, you bet he did, MONEY, MONEY, MONEY, full speed ahead, damn the collectors. I am apparently one of the few with enough moxie to call Orlando to task over this insanity. That you are interested in having a chat with him is your business, I hope you find it eye-opening and worthwhile.
This afternoon I deleted all but one of my Registry sets. I will probably delete the other when the mood strikes me. I only kept it up because it's the #1 set within it's key card listing.
Orlando's mantra is "never get cheated"...open your eyes, who is the cheater? He has to look at himself in the mirror every day, I doubt he will soon forget the incredibly myopic decision he has made. Am I the only one reading the many, many blogs about people getting out of collecting, or saying they're gonna sell their sets?
While I'm on my soap box...the only very bright and shining star at Newport Beach is Cosetta Robbins. A GEM MINT 10.5 lady who has always been professional in handling any issue or question I may have asked of her, no matter how dumb, she always resolved things in a cheery, upbeat and pleasant manner. I hope Orlando gives her a mega raise with his new found wealth, she richly deserves it, I'll miss my contact with her.
Enjoy your phone call with Orlando, but remember, "never get cheated".
there is no need for them...
this would be perceived as trying to copy BGS too much...
also i feel that there is not a lot of wiggle room between a PSA 9 and 10.....
a PSA 9 is a very high end card that usually has 1 MINOR FLAW ( would a PSA 9.5 have a MINOR MINOR flaw--no such thing)
also, if there was a difference between a 9 and a 9.5, i dont think anyone could determine this on a consistent basis...i sure cant and im very confident in determining a PSA 9 from a PSA 10...
JOE great move not including 9.5! well thought out.....
Yep, you do, and mine was that your's was unfair. Yes I do have/had about that in PSA slabs. Not to get into a pissing match with you but did you call? NO, you didn't. Why you keep saying I should enjoy my call is beyond me. I have never said I intended to call.
He never said he did not get one call. WHAT HE DID SAY is that he did not get a call from anyone from these boards. (how he distinguishes that is beyond me)
You were selling your 55 set well before this .5 fiasco took place were you not? I distinctly remember you spamming the registry forum.
Nah I'm no forum cop I just say it as I see it.
Steve
I found this very interesting how this is what mr. Orlando preaches "Never get cheated" yet so many people
here feel they were by the very man who states this.
<< <i>Enjoy your phone call with Orlando, but remember, "never get cheated".
I found this very interesting how this is what mr. Orlando preaches "Never get cheated" yet so many people
here feel they were by the very man who states this. >>
Do you honestly believe Joe Orlando concocted, planned and executed this systematic change to .5 system? You're kidding right. This is a publically traded company, while he may have had a vote, it would be naive to think that it was HIS master plan to cheat us all. He's just the guy who has to implement it.
I'm in the military, I am a senior non-commissioned officer. No you think I am the guy who came up with the idea to invade Iraq? Do you think the President was actually the guy who sat in his office and came up with the plan? Come on fellas, lets be realistic here. Big changes are done by committee.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I'd just like to chime in and say that I like this move. I would have liked it better if they had done it all along, but still.... it's a move in a good direction. I don't feel compelled to send in most of my cards (I have several thousand PSA graded cards, exclusively PSA) but I do have around 100 super nice PSA 8's that I'll review... and probably send in 20 to see if they get a bump. The cost is a small price to pay, to move forward with a better grading system for the future (like it or not, I have to agree that there is a difference between high end 8's and low end 8's - in price and quality of the cards).
I also like the move to not use a 9.5. Most companies that use 9.5 don't give many 10's... so a PSA 10 is like a mix of 9.5's and 10's, and they really aren't distinguishable in most cases if at all. I'd rather have all of my 9.5's and 10's just say PSA 10.
I do see the difficulty being wrestled with, if a collector has a #1 rated high end set with mostly 8's and a few 9's that set him apart. If this collector doesn't send any cards in for review, but the #2 guy gets a bunch of 8's bumped to 8.5's and passes up the #1 spot.... probably with an inferior set.... well that does present a problem. The #1 rated set may no longer be held by the actual #1 quality set... but, again I still think in the long run it's a positive change worth working on rather than ingoring or postponing.
My main concern is with PSA 8's that are submitted for the possible bump. I think there is a chance that high end PSA 8's will take an initial spike in value, as people look to buy up the high end ones, get the bump, and then upgrade their sets. My question is (do I have to call Joe, or will this get answered here?) - will there be a way to tell if a PSA 8 has already been considered for the bump?? If not, it could get sent in ... not get the re-bump... and then get sold. New owner does same thing, ..... la la la PSA reviews the card over and over and over ... collecting many fees and never doing a thing. This could be a problem that would concern me. I think they should use a different tag, or add the .0, to any cards reviewed for the bump, or graded after the new scale is in place.
Paul Holstein
www.jamesbondcards.com
www.vintagestarwarscards.com
paul@disc-or-die.com
transparentpunk@hotmail.com
great thread, Jasp you too.
From what i have heard PSA will not differentiate cards that are sent in that recieve no bump and those that are never sent in or get a straight grade. I would think that they will know (by use of the barcode) if a card has been re subbed and dejected as worthy of a bump.
Steve
No need to crack any that are considered for a PSA 8.5 but don't make it... but note it in the database by serial number, and display it on the screen when you look up a cert number. That way, if someone wants to, they can go to PSACARD.COM and look up the cert to determine if a card (by serial number) has or has not already been considered for a bump.
Paul H.
www.jamesbondcards.com
www.vintagestarwarscards.com
paul@disc-or-die.com
transparentpunk@hotmail.com
No need to crack any that are considered for a PSA 8.5 but don't make it... but note it in the database by serial number, and display it on the screen when you look up a cert number. That way, if someone wants to, they can go to PSACARD.COM and look up the cert to determine if a card (by serial number) has or has not already been considered for a bump.
PSA would stand to lose additional money on subs... Do you think they would be for this??
1957 Topps 99% 7.40 GPA
Hank Aaron Basic PSA 7-8(75%)
PSA would stand to lose additional money on subs... Do you think they would be for this??
Collectors would be fine with it, and that may be more important than more money.
PSA has already changed the rules during the game, which is fine. They need to grade any 8 that does not cross as an 8.0 in my opinion. PSA needs to really think about what has been talked about on this and other boards for the past few days prior to the half grade launch.
This is money driven only...submissions are drying up and we need to keep $$$$ rolling in...That,my friends,is the bottom line why this move wss done.
<< <i>Exactly what would we talk about? You have already implemented the half-point system.
From what I've read and written, well over 90% of collector's are extremely displeased with your decision.
I think you have done a huge disservice to those of us that once held PSA in very high esteem not to mention those of us that have high-end Registry sets.
Money Joe, that's all you care about!
But, we will keep in mind to "never get cheated".
Regards,
Al - mcmlvtopps >>
Im with you 100 %
This "calling Joe" Ploy is just more Political Lip Service to make it look like he really cares. Why would anybody think a guy would be willing to answer the same questions and complaints over and over in individual phone calls. I'll tell ya why...
#1 The call would not be public knowledge or on the record. It does not require him to answer in public. And anything he might say is easily deniable. This makes it so much easier to Flip flop on his word. Another utterly stupid PR move "Call Joe"
#2 Why did he leave this current post? couldn't you have just taken phone calls from everyone and told them this?
#3 For those that are the most upset about this whole scam. What would they call to say? Curse at him? Call him Names? Come on thats absured! He is well aware of the tough questions he needs to answer out in the Public forum.
#4 I have NO problem at all with the new system. And even though I think it is wrong to double charge someone for services they have already paid for, I can even let that go because I will not be participating in the "REPAY" program. What I want is for Joe to PUBLICALLY aplogize and admitt he made some mistakes here along the way at the collectors expensnse.
#5 We are all human and we all make mistakes. I know your a good man Joe, you have taken us this far and have had to make some tough decissions Im sure. I feel the people who are the most upset really need to hear some sincere "REAL WORDS" from you to help them regain the trust and Moral integrity that they had for you and PSA. Stop the PR Campaign and Just tell us like it is. I think most will understand that collectors had to take a bit of a hit here to make this work out. NO Problem, Im still in. End of Story, Lets get on with THE CARDS!
#6 Ive did alot of complaining and griping here and probably said some pretty nasty things myself here in the heat of the moment. SO I will go first..... I Apologize if I offended you with some of my early posts. We all get a bit carried away and Emotional when it comes to our precious hobby and our collections. So here's to the hopes that you will DO THE RIGHT THING and restore our faith in the PSA brand and Your slogan "NEVER GET CHEATED"
Sincerly
John
so why assume there wont be a .5 bump special....
patience grasshoppers....there are a lot of months in the year and plenty of opportunities for specials...
Actually this was not a correct statement...I did call and had to leave a message...it was finally returned around 3 weeks later...and then not by you Joe but your secretary (assistant) (whomever)..."YOU" did not return my call..
Next...I heard it said...that you stated...and I quote..."if PSA ever goes to the half-point system, then you know we are in trouble"...
I guess PSA needs the money? What run out of cards to grade? The next step the quarter-point?
I put it to you Joe that the reason no one called is that for the most part you are inflexible, you will defend PSA grading system with your dying breath...so what is the point discussing something that you are going to do regardless of the calls...
On one hand you defend the move to this new system with "all" of the calls of concern from all those participating in Registry or use PSA, however even though there is rigorous disapproval with that move on this site...no calls...strange don't you think?
People called day and night to have PSA go to the new grading system (you lost sleeping considering this) and yet none of those complaining (and I have only seen one person defending this) called? Why is that?
At best PSA's grading system or any other grading system is flawed, however I still do believe it is the best system...however this new half-point is not and will not improve the system...it's sole purpose was and is to make money for PSA...
I know it's a done deal...I just needed to vent as this really pissed me off...as a very large collector of high-end PSA cards...I consider that you just devalued my collections...from my viewpoint the glass just became half-empty...
Collector
Topps 58,59,60,61,62,63,64 Sets
Fleer 60, 61-62 Sets
<< <i>Reading he responses to your thread, I am happy to see that I am not the only one who is upset with PSA. With your customer (lack of) service sucking as hard as it does, you still need to go out and try to drum up more business. The mighty PSA who has defended its 10 point scale through the past 20+ years is obviously looking toward the future and seeing the submissions eventually drying up, so you swallow your (lack of) pride and feed us the 1/2 point scale. Heck, if the item should have been graded the extra half point to begin with than it should have been rounded up in the first place. I imagine that for the next several years 60-70% of your submissions will be trying for this half point increase, and PSAs response will undoubtedly be to oblige the high volume submitters by rewarding them with the 1/2 point increase. I have several 1950/60s sets of PSA 9/10 which I will now be selling, and taking my participation in the hobby back to the fun aspect of putting together high quality ungraded sets. This will serve me in two ways, getting rid of dealing with the three aspects of this hobby which bugs me the most. PSA, Ebay & PayPal the three Amigos! Additionally, the offer to simply call you is a crock also, it is hard enough to get any response from your customer service department. What you have virtually done is to put the screws to the people who have been loyal to your company in the past. I understand that the card grading business is simply that a "business"; I also understand that many people who submit to you are also doing it as a business, possibly things will work out for them. However, for the lowly collector who have trusted you over the years, you have destroyed their faith. Congradulations! >>
I'm a collector (not a dealer) and my faith isn't destroyed at all, so speak for yourself.
I'd be interested in any football PSA 9/10s you are selling off. Have fun with the raw! Hopefully you're better than PSA at spotting fakes and since ebay is part of your axis of evil, I guess you'll do a nation-wide shopping spree of the last 100 remaining card store in the world to find those raw cards you're after...lololol
I'm so glad PSA made this move, maybe it will weed out the flim-flam collectors from the graded hobby.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Don't have a problem with your point of views about my comment. The only thing I wish you could do for me is give me your defination of flim-flam collectors.
Thanks
<< <i>Jason,
Don't have a problem with your point of views about my comment. The only thing I wish you could do for me is give me your defination of flim-flam collectors.
Thanks >>
flim·flam (flmflm) Informal
n.
1. Nonsense; humbug.
2. A deception; a swindle.
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Have I somehow deceived or swindled the hobby? My point of view is nonsense while yours is gospel? I see from an eariler post your are a Senior NCO in the military thanks for your service, did 24 years myself. If you were seriously interested in some high grade 9/10s in the 1950s & 60s please provide a point of contact and I will be happy to provide you a list of what I will be parting with. Take care...
<< <i>Jason,
Have I somehow deceived or swindled the hobby? My point of view is nonsense while yours is gospel? I see from an eariler post your are a Senior NCO in the military thanks for your service, did 24 years myself. If you were seriously interested in some high grade 9/10s in the 1950s & 60s please provide a point of contact and I will be happy to provide you a list of what I will be parting with. Take care... >>
I didn't point any finger towards you, but if the shoe fits...
Since this half point change was announced, I keep hearing all these guys who are dumping their collections because they are losing vale. If that is truly the case, you were simply collecting either the wrong sets, or low end cards and they were destined to sell lower anyway. It's a good thing that something such as a half grade system will chase those collectors out of the graded card field.
As you said, stick with raw, no longer use ebay or paypal..Sounds like a REAL plan for success..MUCH better than using the graded card system...Makes TONS of sense.
PM me with any of your PSA 9/10 football available or you can e-mail me jabeduco@yahoo.com. I'll give you SMR for anything I need..lol
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Buying Mike Schmidt basic PSA 10's, rookie QBs
<Jason,
Have I somehow deceived or swindled the hobby? My point of view is nonsense while yours is gospel? I see from an eariler post your are a Senior NCO in the military thanks for your service, did 24 years myself. If you were seriously interested in some high grade 9/10s in the 1950s & 60s please provide a point of contact and I will be happy to provide you a list of what I will be parting with. Take care...>
im with jason and the army over all you civies all the time,no matter what, i did nam to desert storm a ret Colonel, so what, no gonna get me a break at psa on anything, ive just now got a few welcome homes and thanks for your service 40 years later,dont matter either,a co on nasdaq is controlled by a board of directors, joe didnt make the final choice unless he is a 51 % stockholder or whatever it is on nasdaq,i think it sucks, is why i sold my 50 bowman fb set 3 7 and moved on, i dont pay stupid games with people, either you like me, or ya dont, i dont really care ,
i like psa , i just think it sucks changing the play right in the middle of the game, thats what alot of people have a problem about ,and this isoldnews ,but im bored at 4am and nobody is on to talk to
You missed the boat: You needed to "kick us while we were down", and needed to include 9.5's.
It is just a matter of time, as I fully expect, "not if, but when" PSA starts slabbing 9.5's.
If you say you have "tweeners" between 1 and 2's = 1.5
If you say you have "tweeners" between 2 and 3's = 2.5
If you say you have "tweeners" between 3 and 4's = 3.5
If you say you have "tweeners" between 4 and 5's = 4.5
If you say you have "tweeners" between 5 and 6's = 6.5
If you say you have "tweeners" between 6 and 7's = 7.5
If you say you have "tweeners" between 7 and 8's = 8.5
PSA says, there is currently no such thing as a "tweener" between a 9 and a 10?
With all those many thousands of PSA 9s, none are "tweeners" that deserve a bump to 9.5?
Yeah right!
PSA made the decision to go to "half grades", but failed to "complete the deal" by "short-changing" all those "mint 9 tweeners".
Mark my words, 9.5's will be here, someday soon!
rd
P.S. I'm not saying that I agree with the new "half grades", but I just do not understand why stop short and say, "all cards may be graded as "tweeners", that is except mint "tweeners"." Doesn't make sense, or an I wrong?
FRANK ZAPPA "Dirty Love"
Quicksilver Messenger Service - Smokestack Lightning (Live) 1968
Quicksilver Messenger Service - The Hat (Live) 1971
Steve
<< <i>yawn
Steve >>
He's so gay!
Quicksilver Messenger Service - Smokestack Lightning (Live) 1968
Quicksilver Messenger Service - The Hat (Live) 1971
Now the bad news. Joe your customer service department sucks. It sucks very badly and I don't think you understand how bad. I have gotten some very nice people on the phone but never followed through with their promises. I have gotten very rude and short tempered reps. before that would say anything to me just to get me off the phone. So I do agree with you PhineasJWhoopee on your comments about this. I don't know who you are but it sounds like you have a pretty nice collection from the 1950's consisting of PSA 9's and 10's. If this is the case, the changes PSA has implemented affects your collection ZERO. So why is this a big deal to you?
Regards,
Shane Leonard
<< <i>JOE great move not including 9.5! well thought out..... >>
Fandango has spoken.....This just became a topic no longer open for debate!
P.S. If you need a good P.I. Call Fandango!