UPDATE - WINNER!!! - 1000th post contest...A twenty-cent piece as the prize!

astrorat

UPDATE

Hi folks...looks like we have a winner of the 1000th post contest! The interesting fact was regarding the placement of E PLURIBUS UNUM on the edge of the coin. And the poster was ... onejinx! So, Brett, PM me your address and I will go through my double dimes and find one for you!

Thanks for playing everyone!

Lane

--------------------------------------------

Hi folks-

Since this is my 1000th post, I figured I would hold a contest with the prize being a nice, original twenty-cent piece in G-VG. The kind of coin that would be nice for a budget type set.

The contest is to post the most interesting and novel fact about the United States twenty-cent piece series or directly-related topic.

The particulars are:

1. The fact, story, supposition, etc, has to be interesting or novel to me (Note: Since I have done quite of bit of studying about the series you may have a little work cut out for you.) Then again, I am easily amused.

2. The posted information must be referenced. In other words, no "facts" without some sort of support...there is already WAY too much of that !*%#&@ in numismatics.

3. You can provide as many separate posts as you wish. But only one "fact" per post, please.

4. The deadline for posting is midnight, January 31, 2008.

5. Preference will be given to posts from YN's. In other words, with equally interesting facts from an adult and a YN, the YN wins.

Yeah, I know this is not as easy as a "random selection" or "guessing the weight," but heck, I am an academic, and hopefully this will provide some neat information for the Board.

Good luck everyone!

Lane

SilverEagles92

YN here. First, I tried coinfacts.com. This is from them:

The Twenty-Cent Piece was an unusual denomination struck between 1875 and 1878. Because the size of the coin and the design elements were so similar to those on the Quarter Dollar, these coins caused a lot of confusion with the general public (similar to the situation that occurred over 100 years later with the Susan B. Anthony Dollar). For this reason, Twenty Cent Pieces were struck for circulation only in 1875 and 1876. In 1877 and 1878, they were available only as Proofs.

jessewvu

Because the size of the coin and the design elements were so similar to those on the Quarter Dollar, these coins caused a lot of confusion with the general public (similar to the situation that occurred over 100 years later with the Susan B. Anthony Dollar). For this reason, Twenty Cent Pieces were struck for circulation only in 1875 and 1876. In 1877 and 1878, they were available only as Proofs.

Link

SilverEagles92

Next, I tried WIkiPedia. This is from WikiPedia (not always the most trustworthy source, I know)

The coin was invented as a tactic for increasing U.S. silver exports. It was meant to circulate on a par with the silver franc, a widely used international reserve currency of the 1870s. The French-franc heritage survives in Europe to this day; most European countries which eventually adopted decimal formats preferred the 20/100 denomination over the 25/100, and today's Euro coinage includes a 20-cent piece, not a 25-cent piece. The Province of Canada also issued 20-cent coins in 1858 for the same reason; after independence, Canada abandoned the innovation in favor of 25-cent coins, first struck in 1870. Newfoundland, which did not join Canada until 1949, issued 20-cent coins from 1865 until 1912.

SilverEagles92

From CoinResource.com:

A twenty-cent piece was certainly not a new idea. First proposed by Thomas Jefferson in 1783 to be part of our decimal system of coinage, the idea was abandoned in favor of the quarter dollar during deliberations for the Mint Act of 1792. The quarter more closely approximated the "two-bits" of the Spanish eight-reales pieces then in widespread use. Proposed again in 1806, the denomination faced little opposition itself, but the legislation was defeated for reasons having to do with other parts of the bill.

droopyd

The US 20-cent piece had a two-pronged purpose -- to placate the powerful silver lobbyists, and to compete with foreign currencies in international trade.

The U.S. twenty-cent piece was created at the urging of Senator John Percival Jones from Nevada. Jones represented the silver miners of the Comstock Lode.

The coin was invented as a tactic for increasing U.S. silver exports. It was meant to circulate on a par with the silver franc, a widely used international reserve currency of the 1870s. The French-franc heritage survives in Europe to this day; most European countries which eventually adopted decimal formats preferred the 20/100 denomination over the 25/100, and today's Euro coinage includes a 20-cent piece, not a 25-cent piece. The Province of Canada also issued 20-cent coins in 1858 for the same reason; after independence, Canada abandoned the innovation in favor of 25-cent coins, first struck in 1870. Newfoundland, which did not join Canada until 1949, issued 20-cent coins from 1865 until 1912.

From Wikipedia

(and no, I am not a YN....)

SilverEagles92

From Blanchard Online:

The coin was said to be introduced to stop the short-changing in Western States but was probably a political decision to please the Western silver miners after the Mint eliminated some silver coins with the Mint Act of 1873.

The major rarity of this series is the 1876-CC with only 12 to 20 known.

keez

The 20 cent piece is one of my favorites and I hope to own one someday.

An interesting difference between the quarter and the 20 cent is that the eagle's head is turned the opposite direction. When looking at the reverse, it is looking to the right. So even if it's very worn and cannot read the denomination, you can tell what it is by looking at the direction of the eagle's head.

(PS -- I am a baby-boomer, 2005 newbie)

Edited to add: No need to include me in this giveaway, but wanted to share what was pointed out to me at a local shop concerning the identification of a worn 20 cent piece.

MoneyLA

The Twenty-Cent Piece was struck for the first time in the 1870's when AT&T's board of directors influenced government officials including the FCC (which had regulatory control of phone rates at the time) to raise the rate for phone booth calls to 20-cents. Washington agreed, but when the public balked at the twenty-cent rate for phone booth calls, the phone booths were removed and soon thereafter the government stopped the minting of the coins.

For decades thereafter the five-cent phone booth call remained, giving rise to the expression "it's your nickel," later giving rise to the expression "it's your dime," and then "it's your quarter," and then "can I borrow your cell phone?"

laxmaster92

Yn here

from Wikipedia

There were several valid reasons for the speedy withdrawal of the 20-cent piece from general circulation in the United States. Foremost, it was easily confused with the quarters of the era, having the same Liberty Seated design on the front, and a similar eagle design on the back, as well as the same metallic composition and a similar size. One would basically have had to read the small and easily worn text on the reverse in order to determine the value (TWENTY CENTS vs QUAR. DOL.) without a side by side comparison

MrSpud

Ok, here is a "Directly related topic" because it is about 20 cent pieces, but not from the US

"The 20 cent coin of the Australian decimal currency system was issued with conversion to decimal currency on 14 February 1966."

From

Link

laxmaster92

As early as 1791, Thomas Jefferson
proposed the double disme or Twenty-cent coin in keeping with the decimal
system, but Congress realized that the denomination was too close to that of the
quarter, and abandoned the proposition

laxmaster92

12,359 Carson City 20¢ pieces were melted becuase of the unpopularity of the coin,
most of which were dated 1876. It is currently estimated that only 18 of
the 1876-CC 20¢ pieces are known to have survived.

GoldenEyeNumismatics

YN here.

The origins of the 20 Cent Piece lie in the California Gold Rush, where, in the lack of standard US coinage, merchants accepted and dispensed French Franc coins for 20 cents. The practice was banned though in 1854, because it was found that the French coins contained an intrinsic value of only about 18.5 cents, and importers were making a killing on the margin.

"Field Guide to Collecting Western Pioneer Minor Coinage" -Fred Holabird

STONE

All that I can add is that I forgot about an ebay auction a few days ago for a Love Token 20c piece.

Kind of sucks and I thought this was really cool since it's the only one I've seen. I'm bummed, but over it.

Here's a link so that you can check it out: 20c Piece Love Token

I am officially a YN to the ANA, hope this boosts my chance

Thanks again for the giveaway

GoldenEyeNumismatics

It's a bit hard to explain, but here goes:

For much of the later half of the 19th century, the standard price for many items was the "bit," or 12 1/2 cents. But the United States produced no coin of this denomination, and the concept of someone carrying a dime, 2 cents, and an old clunky half cent was not realistic by any means. Additionally, a shortage of 5 cents pieces had also come to exist.

So if you were to go into a general store and purchase an item with the price of 1 bit, it was acceptable to pay with only a single dime. This, in essence, saved you 2 1/2 cents, and became known as a "short bit." However, if you paid with a quarter, all that would be tendered to you in your change would be a single dime, which meant you'd have paid 15 cents for your item, costing you an extra 2 1/2 cents. That became known as paying a "long bit."

One of the reasons the 20 cent piece was introduced was to alleviate the complaints regarding the paying of long bits. If you were to go to a shop and pay with a "double dime," then you'd be tendered your 10 cents in change, and never have to worry about paying a long bit. You'd always pay a short bit if you carried dimes or 20-cent pieces--except, of course, if you paid with a 20-center and the teller just happened to have some 5-cent pieces in his money box, but that was unusual.

The Mint on Carson Street, Rusty Goe.

GoldenEyeNumismatics

Ok, one more. Also from The Mint on Carson Street, by Rusty Goe.

Nevada Senator John P. Jones was a major advocate of the 20 cent piece, mainly because he believed it would help increase demand for silver. Nevada's Comstock Lode, as well as it's other developing mining districts, were always glad to see an increase in the demand for this metal.

AUandAG

After many years of discussion at the Mint and many, many meetings it was finally decided to replace
a dime, nickel, 3cent piece and two cent piece with one coin; thus the twenty cent piece.
bob

LeeG

Congrat's on 1K and thanks for the chance! Sharing history is always a good thing.

More Adventures with Rare Coins by QDB; Adventure #23
A New Denomination:
Produced only from 1875 to 1878, and for circulation only in one truly significant year, 1875, the 20-cent piece is the most short-lived of all American coin denominations.
Although coinage of a 20-cent piece had been suggested in the United States as early as 1791, and in neighboring Canada the 20-cent piece had been distributed in quantity in 1858, it was not until February 1874 that the notion of this denomination was translated into reality, this side of the border.

savoyspecial

20c is the only denomination in the seated liberty family to have LIBERTY as raised letters on the shield vs. incused

as one can imagine this causes faster deterioration of the letters, and makes photograde on this denomination almost impossible

greg

edited for spelling

tightbudget

YN here. Don't know if this has been posted, but what the heck...



"A twenty-cent piece was certainly not a new idea. First proposed by Thomas Jefferson in 1783 to be part of our decimal system of coinage, the idea was abandoned in favor of the quarter dollar during deliberations for the Mint Act of 1792. The quarter more closely approximated the "two-bits" of the Spanish eight-reales pieces then in widespread use. Proposed again in 1806, the denomination faced little opposition itself, but the legislation was defeated for reasons having to do with other parts of the bill.

Finally, in February of 1874 Nevada Senator John Percival Jones, having somewhat dubious motives, introduced a bill to make the denomination a reality. The Senator claimed to believe that this coin, one that the Carson City Mint could produce, would solve the problem of the shortage of small change, particularly in the West.

The Mint Act of 1873 had abolished the silver three-cent piece, half dime and dollar, but without giving the San Francisco or Carson City Mints authority to produce minor coins. With the half dime rapidly disappearing from circulation, it was becoming increasingly difficult to get the correct change of a quarter. In 1874 hundreds of common items were priced at ten cents, and those paying with a quarter would often be shortchanged by receiving a dime or a Spanish bit, worth just 12-1/2 cents.

Obviously, producing cents and nickels at the western mints would have been the best solution, but for some reason this option was ignored. Apparently, with Senator Jones' influence, consideration was given to the owners of the Comstock Lode silver mines, who had lost much of the demand for their output because of the 1873 Mint Act. Possibly for similar reasons, Mint Director Henry Linderman supported the bill, and Congress went along. Unquestionably a political answer to the problem, the bill was signed into law by President Grant on March 3, 1875."

nullSource

UTTM07

Very few people are aware that the 1876-CC 20 cent coins were melted as a result of the Great Desert Werewolf Uprising of August 1876. The coach carrying the majority of the mintage was on its way to Albuquerque under army guard (led by Lt. Frank Custer, younger brother of George Custer) when the party was ambushed by Desert Werewolves. The party and a few Navajo indians were holed up in a cave by the werewolves, and in desperation, fashioned a crude forge out of the wagon and other scavenged materials. The 20 cent coins, being the smallest silver coins on hand as they had no dimes, were first to be melted to cast silver bullets. After an 8 hour fight, the band of mint employees, soldiers, and Navajo indians finally drove away the werewolves. Though 12 of the party had died, the remaining 19 each took several of the 1876-CC twenty centers to remember their ordeal. It is currently unknown how many other specimens remain extant.

I'm sure there's something on wikipedia about this.

renman95

I am a YN, Younger than Nostradamus.

A twenty-cent piece is less than a quarter but more than a disme and was made during the last global cooling period.

My "estate" can be purchased for one 1876-CC PCGS MS66, one 1876 PCGS PR67 and one 1878 PCGS PR67.

The Dow 30 will be at 1875-CC PCGS MS65 by election day 2008.

Gold can reach 1875-CC PCGS AU50 before the Fed gets serious.

My IQ is a wee bit more than an 1875-S PCGS G8.

Ren-tradamus

holeinone1972

The twenty cent piece is worth 5 cents less than a quarter.

That is very novel. LOL

hockeyfan9

Astrorat, you said in another post you live in Colorado and you are an academic, so the question is Ft. Collins, Boulder, Denver, maybe one of the smaller colleges like Mesa St. or UNC. You write much better than I do (and since I am a grad of CSU) I am going to guess Boulder. Now, I know very little about .20 coins, so as I so often did (to alarming success I might add) in college, here is my bluff: Astrorat currently owns the most twenty cent pieces in Boulder County Colorado, he is also 1 of the 3 most knowledgeable people on the topic of twenty cent pieces in Boulder County Colorado.
How did I do?

PS if by some miracle I do win please donate the prize to the kids coin auction that the club in Longmont CO puts on during its spring show. I took my kids there once and it was a lot of fun to watch.

Thanks, Hockeyfan9 (aka, Mark in Ft. Collins)

astrorat

<< <i>All that I can add is that I forgot about an ebay auction a few days ago for a Love Token 20c piece.

Kind of sucks and I thought this was really cool since it's the only one I've seen. I'm bummed, but over it.

Here's a link so that you can check it out: 20c Piece Love Token

I am officially a YN to the ANA, hope this boosts my chance

Thanks again for the giveaway >>



Yeah, that was a nice love token...look who won it!

They are fairly uncommon as love tokens. So far, I have only seen 1875-S coins used even if the reverse has been engraved (most of the time you can tell it is an "S" mint based on the obverse by the presence of misplaced digits in the denticles).

Lane

astrorat

<< <i>It's a bit hard to explain, but here goes:

For much of the later half of the 19th century, the standard price for many items was the "bit," or 12 1/2 cents. But the United States produced no coin of this denomination, and the concept of someone carrying a dime, 2 cents, and an old clunky half cent was not realistic by any means. Additionally, a shortage of 5 cents pieces had also come to exist.

So if you were to go into a general store and purchase an item with the price of 1 bit, it was acceptable to pay with only a single dime. This, in essence, saved you 2 1/2 cents, and became known as a "short bit." However, if you paid with a quarter, all that would be tendered to you in your change would be a single dime, which meant you'd have paid 15 cents for your item, costing you an extra 2 1/2 cents. That became known as paying a "long bit."

One of the reasons the 20 cent piece was introduced was to alleviate the complaints regarding the paying of long bits. If you were to go to a shop and pay with a "double dime," then you'd be tendered your 10 cents in change, and never have to worry about paying a long bit. You'd always pay a short bit if you carried dimes or 20-cent pieces--except, of course, if you paid with a 20-center and the teller just happened to have some 5-cent pieces in his money box, but that was unusual.

The Mint on Carson Street, Rusty Goe. >>



What I really find fascinating about this tale is that it has never been substantiated in the press of the day (and believe me, I have looked). The first, and only, mention of it in any contemporary publication was when Senator Percival Jones of Nevada told it to Congress as part of the rationale for the need for the denomination. Fourteen months or so later when legislation was introduced to eliminate the denomination, it was stated, and not refuted, that the whole concept of local merchants or customers being cheated was untrue and was made up by Sen. Jones. This has been one of those numismatic tales that has been repeated so many times that it has become "true."

Lane

astrorat

<< <i>Ok, one more. Also from The Mint on Carson Street, by Rusty Goe.

Nevada Senator John P. Jones was a major advocate of the 20 cent piece, mainly because he believed it would help increase demand for silver. Nevada's Comstock Lode, as well as it's other developing mining districts, were always glad to see an increase in the demand for this metal. >>



Guess what Sen. Jones also did...he was a silver mine owner in Nevada.

Lane

astrorat

<< <i>Very few people are aware that the 1876-CC 20 cent coins were melted as a result of the Great Desert Werewolf Uprising of August 1876. The coach carrying the majority of the mintage was on its way to Albuquerque under army guard (led by Lt. Frank Custer, younger brother of George Custer) when the party was ambushed by Desert Werewolves. The party and a few Navajo indians were holed up in a cave by the werewolves, and in desperation, fashioned a crude forge out of the wagon and other scavenged materials. The 20 cent coins, being the smallest silver coins on hand as they had no dimes, were first to be melted to cast silver bullets. After an 8 hour fight, the band of mint employees, soldiers, and Navajo indians finally drove away the werewolves. Though 12 of the party had died, the remaining 19 each took several of the 1876-CC twenty centers to remember their ordeal. It is currently unknown how many other specimens remain extant.

I'm sure there's something on wikipedia about this. >>





Lane

amiller

The twenty-cent piece was only legal tender for an amount not exceeding $5 in any one payment.
(Act of March 3, 1875)

astrorat

<< <i>Astrorat, you said in another post you live in Colorado and you are an academic, so the question is Ft. Collins, Boulder, Denver, maybe one of the smaller colleges like Mesa St. or UNC. You write much better than I do (and since I am a grad of CSU) I am going to guess Boulder. Now, I know very little about .20 coins, so as I so often did (to alarming success I might add) in college, here is my bluff: Astrorat currently owns the most twenty cent pieces in Boulder County Colorado, he is also 1 of the 3 most knowledgeable people on the topic of twenty cent pieces in Boulder County Colorado.
How did I do?

PS if by some miracle I do win please donate the prize to the kids coin auction that the club in Longmont CO puts on during its spring show. I took my kids there once and it was a lot of fun to watch.

Thanks, Hockeyfan9 (aka, Mark in Ft. Collins) >>



Interesting...by "academic" I was actually referring to my profession...I teach at Regis University in Denver. I do own a few twenty-cent pieces; probably more than I should. I am likely 1 of 3 people on the planet who actually collects them based on die marriage and die state...except for the 76-CC, that is!

Lane

amiller

The twenty-cent piece was issued chiefly for use in the Pacific States.
(pages 211-212, The Coinages of the World: Ancient and Modern, by George D. Mathews, 1876)

Interesting, Mathews also states these appeared in 1873-6 rather than 1875-8. Typesetter's mistake?

Batman23

Congrats on the 1000 posts and cool give away. Twenty Cent Pieces have always been one of my favorites.

This short lived denomination was only produced for circulation during 1875 and 1876 with additional proofs being minted in 1877 and 1878. The mintages were so low for the circulation coinage that very few production dies were used. Because of this the varieties that do exist are relatively common. In fact the major variety, the misplaced date of the 1875-s, is far more common that the date without the misplaced date.


Referenced from the Cherry Picker's Guide.

GoldenEyeNumismatics

Nevermind, I guess I didn't get the joke.

Overdate

The 20 cent piece was created to bridge the yawning gap between the 10 cent coin and the 25 cent coin.

A compromise proposal for a 17 1/2 cent coin was narrowly defeated. It is generally agreed that such a coin would have met with great success.

There were only 17 coin types in circulation at the time. Adding an 18th coin type made it much easier for sales clerks to calculate correct change.

Cash registers with 18 coin slots were very popular.

Efforts to put Susan B. Anthony on the coin failed, as she was still alive at the time. It took another 104 years before this oversight was rectified.

I'll provide sources for the above statements as soon as I can. I know they're around here somewhere!

longtimecollector

The 20 cent piece was one of only 3 (or is it 4) US silver coins struck for general circulation (errors not included) to have a plain edge........ Can anyone name the other 2 ???

astrorat

<< <i>

<< <i>Very few people are aware that the 1876-CC 20 cent coins were melted as a result of the Great Desert Werewolf Uprising of August 1876. The coach carrying the majority of the mintage was on its way to Albuquerque under army guard (led by Lt. Frank Custer, younger brother of George Custer) when the party was ambushed by Desert Werewolves. The party and a few Navajo indians were holed up in a cave by the werewolves, and in desperation, fashioned a crude forge out of the wagon and other scavenged materials. The 20 cent coins, being the smallest silver coins on hand as they had no dimes, were first to be melted to cast silver bullets. After an 8 hour fight, the band of mint employees, soldiers, and Navajo indians finally drove away the werewolves. Though 12 of the party had died, the remaining 19 each took several of the 1876-CC twenty centers to remember their ordeal. It is currently unknown how many other specimens remain extant.

I'm sure there's something on wikipedia about this. >>



I don't want to sabotage this thread, and I don't mean to be rude, but that's complete bull. The 1876-CC 20 cent pieces were melted at the Carson City Mint. The only ones that escaped were those that had been sent to Philadelphia for assay.

And Wikipedia is not a reliable source. >>



Ummm...I am sure that was satire. I mean, come on...werewolves!

Lane

astrorat

<< <i>The 20 cent piece was one of only 3 (or is it 4) US silver coins struck for general circulation (errors not included) to have a plain edge........ Can anyone name the other 2 ??? >>



This is pre-coffee...but the only other one that comes to mind is the three-cent silver. All the others I can recall at this early hour have either a lettered edge or reeded edge. Great question.

Lane

astrorat

<< <i>A compromise proposal for a 17 1/2 cent coin was narrowly defeated. >>


Interesting...I must admit I had not heard this before


<< <i>Efforts to put Susan B. Anthony on the coin failed, as she was still alive at the time. >>


Another new one to me. Any support beyond a "fringe" group would be quite surprising considering that SBA was really not that active politically for women's equal civil and political rights until the early 1870s.


<< <i>I'll provide sources for the above statements as soon as I can. I know they're around here somewhere! >>


Very intriguing stuff...I look forward to the sources.

Lane

agentjim007

A "Branch Mint Proof" 20c I purchased from a Heritage auction probably 20 years ago still holds my all time loss record. It wasn't a Branch mint proof and Heritage wouldn't budge, they said it WAS a 20c piece. Only after PNG complaint did I get the buyers premium refunded and sold the coin for a couple hundred bucks. I guess I got over it I just recieved an auction lot from Heritage 2 days ago but I do not forget.


edited for spelling.

onejinx

A recently located letter by U.S. Mint engraver William Barber indicates that Mint Director Henry R. Linderman seriously considered placing the motto E Pluribus Unum on the edge of the new 20-cent piece issued in 1875.

Linderman’s idea was to put the motto on the edge of the 20-cent coin to more readily distinguish the new denomination from the reeded-edge quarter. He felt it would also deter counterfeiters. In a reply dated April 17, 1874, Barber suggested placing the motto on the edge and removing it from the face of the coin. He also described three ways the lettering could be applied and his objections to two of them:
…The first is by attaching a “split collar” in three pieces, operating automatically, to the presses now in use, and striking the rim and face by the same blow. The objections are cost of altering presses, decreased production, and liability to frequent repairs.

The 2nd way is by striking the coins as at present and putting the motto on the edge afterwards. These objections follow: risk of soiling the beauty of the new piece by handling, also by collision, and by the necessary pressure on the rim throwing up a ”fin”, or unfinished look on the edge.

The third way is the one I wish to suggest to you as likely to overcome the objections of the two former methods, it is this…. Make your planchets a trifle large, then put them through a small machine such as are used to throw up more metal on the edges of coins or medals, having the letters raised on the steel sides. The pressure will at once insert the motto and also raise up the extra metal on the edge necessary to get up the additional rim on the turned edge of the die…protecting the device. These prepared planchets to be struck in the usual way.

You will observe on coins having the sunken letters, that the last striking of the dies presses the rim so tightly in the collar that the sunken motto on the edge is slightly, very slightly injured, but by no means obscured.

Barber also suggested that the edge could include “…some delicate and secret mark, changeable periodically at pleasure… which, made known to the [counterfeit] detector, should aid him and baffle the counterfeiter.”

During the late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries, the U.S. Mint had produced coins with lettered or ornamented edges before settling on reeded edges in 1836. Planchets were run through a lettering machine, in much the same manner as Barber described in his third, and preferred, option. The “split” or “segmented collar” had been used by the British Royal Mint for many years and was known in England as a “cone collar.”

It does not appear that Linderman’s concept was tested in 1874. None of the 20-cent patterns (Pollock 1498-1503; Judd 1354-1358) have been identified as showing signs of edge lettering and Mint Bureau records do not indicate that edge lettering experiments were undertaken that this time. By 1885, the subject had again attracted the attention of Treasury Department officials and an experimental silver dollar with E Pluribus Unum on the edge in relief (Pollock 1959-1961; Judd 1747-1749) was tested, this time by William’s son, Charles who was now engraver of the Philadelphia Mint. Again, nothing was done to utilize the device on circulating coins until 1906 when Charles Barber and George Morgan collaborated on a pattern double eagle with lettered edge (Pollock 1992; Judd 1773). This experiment led directly to use of E Pluribus Unum on the edge of the Saint-Gaudens double eagles from 1907-1933. The raised lettering was applied to normal production coins by a three-segment edge collar die using both the English collar design, and an American “toggle collar” mechanical arrangement.

www.uspatterns.com
Lettered edge considered for 20-cent piece
by Robert W. Burdette

astrorat

<< <i>A "Branch Mint Proof" 20c I purchased from a Heritage auction probably 20 years ago still holds my all time loss record. It wasn't a Branch mint proof and Heritage wouldn't budge, they said it WAS a 20c piece. Only after PNG complaint did I get the buyers premium refunded and sold the coin for a couple hundred bucks. I guess I got over it I just recieved an auction lot from Heritage 2 days ago but I do not forget. >>



Bummer...do you happen to recall the auction? I would like to get a copy of the catalog as I try and follow the 75-S proof auctions. The story of the BMPs from 1875 in San Francisco is kind of intriguing since there really was no record of a special ceremony or US Mint record of the proofs being struck. There has been reported by Breen and others that about 6-12 were struck (or more accurately, known to exist). There are some very specific diagnostics, such as the spike out of the Liberty cap pole. But these dies were also used to strike regular circulating issues. As such, the diagnostics are not definitive for a BMP. This is further complicated by the existence of really nice, PL business strikes from that die marriage! My best guess is that when the SF Mint first struck the coins there were a few that were struck as souvenirs on "polished" planchets. Then they proceeded to strike pieces for the public. At some point there was less and less "proofyness" and the pieces were just PL and then satin brilliant.

Lane

Griv

My understanding was that it all started with a quarter that had a chunk missing and all you could get for it was 20 cents. It kinda caught on so they made round ones but then it messed up the whole "2 bits" thing , no one liked saying "I'll give you 1 bit and most of a 2nd bit", and so they got rid of them. The other theory is that they were minted as an attempt to reduce inflated bits from 12 cents down to 10 cents. This angered the dime people and they lobbied Congress to get rid of them. Later we reinvented the bit and while it still takes 8 bits to make a dollar it also take 8 bits to make a digital byte. Scarry huh?

NHSBaseball

(Referenced from Michael Marotta in the Numismatist)

Governor Morris , addressing Congress, said "We need a pistareen"!

Governor Morris needed SOMETHING, all right.

Overdate

<< The 20 cent piece was one of only 3 (or is it 4) US silver coins struck for general circulation (errors not included) to have a plain edge........ Can anyone name the other 2 ??? >>

This is pre-coffee...but the only other one that comes to mind is the three-cent silver. All the others I can recall at this early hour have either a lettered edge or reeded edge. Great question.

Lane


I believe that one or more of the 1792 dismes were also plain edge.

longtimecollector

OK.......... So far for plain edge silver coins we have:

Three cent silvers,

1792 Half dimes, (this was the "or is it 4" coin since I think many people consider it more a pattern, plus the fact that it was struck BEFORE the establishment of the US Mint),

The Twenty Cent piece,

and the last one has still not been mentioned. It's one of those that you're gonna slap yourself in the forehead and say "D'oh" !!!!!!!!!!!

UTTM07

War nickels.

Glad the story's funny, by the way! Haha.

Oh, and why hasn't today's mint thought of edge lettering the planchets before striking the coins?

longtimecollector

War Nickels is CORRECT !!!!!!!!!!!

astrorat

<< <i>War Nickels is CORRECT !!!!!!!!!!! >>





Lane

Pistareen

<< <i>Governor Morris , addressing Congress, said "We need a pistareen"! >>




Say what? Who?



Voila. A pistareen, payable at five to a dollar in an American colony near you.

Or you can use this in Virginia:



Congrats on the 1000 posts Astrorat! If memory serves, don't you have kind of a nice pistareen?

astrorat

<< <i>Congrats on the 1000 posts Astrorat! If memory serves, don't you have kind of a nice pistareen? >>



Thanks and yeah, I do...don't quite remember from who I got it though...

Thanks for the image of the Virginia note...very cool.

Lane