1733 Klippe coin real or fake???

Dazza

Hi all

I have a 1733 Silver Klippe 8 reales coin and I was wondering if possibly by looking at the pictures that anyone could tell me if its real or fake. I know its hard to judge a coin by just looking at the pictures but if anyone could give me there advice and what they think that would be most appreciated. I'm thinking of selling it but I just don't want to sell someone a fake one.

Dazza

lordmarcovan

I am suspicious but cannot say for sure it's a fake or real, one way or the other.

If it is a fake, it's a little better than your average tourist souvenir, but it has a dull pewtery look and mushy details that I do not like.

That would normally be a red flag, but it's not really enough in this case to put a damper on your hopes yet, since a lot of genuine sea-salvaged pieces have that look, too.

So put me down for an "I don't know", and cross your fingers until somebody with more specialized knowledge chimes in.

Meiji

This is the reason that I don't collect these 8 Reales.
Most are sea - salvaged and very crude, making the weight vary greatly.
Since these coins were struck from clipped bars of silver, the designs can be abit off, lopsided, etc.
All these factors makes it very hard to determine if they are real and more importantly, it makes counterfeiting these coins much easier.

Background would help alot. For example, the pedigree.
Did you buy it from ebay? how much? (probably fake, if you bought it from the bay)
Did you buy it from a reputable auction house? (Probably real)

Here is a similar one from Heritage Auction Stinky Linky

1jester

First of all, welcome to the Darkside, Dazza!

I'd like to help you in answering your question, but my hunch will be far from authoritative, based on the small pictures you have attached along with my limited knowledge of the series. I think if you compare your coin to the one linked by Meiji, you'll see plenty of differences worthy of note, such as color, patina, font of lettering and design (the slabbed one shows thicker lines), evenness of flan (yours is really wavy/porous/uneven, which is a primary characteristic of a cast copy), etc. Though I know virtually nothing of these 8-reale coins, I suspect yours is fake, unfortunately.

DorkGirl

1960NYGiants

Interesting bit of history if authentic. I wonder which TPG would authenticate and grade such a piece? I've never seen one in a slab.

TwoKopeiki

Gene, check-out the link Meiji posted - that one is slabbed. I think I should get into this series, if nothing else just to educate myself about it. To me, it looks like it's either a cast counterfeit, or an authentic one, though heavily corroded. If you could try to get closer images of the surface - it would help. Also, what is the weight of it?

Welcome to the boards and I hope you stick around.

Dazza

Hi all again

Thank you all for replying to my message. I've put more slightly enlarged pictures for those who wanted a more closer look. The weight of the coin is 12 grams if that helps too! Luckily I didn't buy it on ebay! It was part of a mixed collection of coins my dad brought me for Christmas 3 years back or so. It was full of coins from England ( where I'm from ), Italian, and some German coins from world war 2.
Obviously the one I have in question just stood out from the rest. The way it looks etc! Its only when I started to investigate about it that I found out that it COULD be a klippe coin. I really don't know nothing about this type of coin so thank you all again so much for your comments. One last thing I'm more of a collector of roman coins and have been for a short period of time so it would be nice to hear of other peoples collections etc.

Reagrds
Dazza

lordmarcovan

Well, I forgot to welcome you, but if you are a collector of Roman coins, let me give you a DOUBLE welcome, since that's been my endeavor since last March or so.

lordmarcovan

The more I look at that thing, the more I think it MIGHT just be a sea-salvaged original piece. If it's a fake, it's far better than the norm.

But I'm still suspicious. And you can still count me in the "I don't know" camp.

Dazza

Ill have to take some pictures to show you and others my roman coin collection. It certainly becomes an addiction as you have found out yourself. All the best with your collection and long may it continue!

regards
Dazza

Meiji

In my opinion the 12g weight of this coin would definitely place the coin as "Counterfeit".
A real 1733 8 Reales should weigh around 27 grams.
I've seem them go up to 27.8 grams and as low as 24 grams for sea salvaged examples.
Looking at the pictures more closely, the coin is too thin for an 8 reale cob.

Daniel Sedwick is an expert on cobs and he has a section on his website which outlines counterfeit cobs
Here is the link

Stinky Linky

Dazza

Thank again for you comments. I had a look at Danial Sedwick's website and he certainly knows what he is talking about. It really is such a shame there is people out there willing to sell "copies" of all types of coins just to make some money for themselves. Just being honest isn't such a hard thing is it!!!
I wish you all well with all your coin collections and hope you all have a great year ahead!!!!

Regards
Dazza

TwoKopeiki

I would agree with Meiji, the weight is way off - I would call it a counterfeit.

lordmarcovan

I missed the part about 12 grams.

Dazza

Well at least I know now for sure its a fake! From now on Ill concentrate on collecting roman coins. Much more intetesting!!!!