Vargha, MCastaldi, Zardoz, Mikeschmidt...please read

acowa

I want your opinion on something...

I bought a PSA graded card on EBAY ( an 8 ) with no scan. I recieved the card and it is not what I expected. The card has 30/70 centering (both ways) at least 2 very weak corners, one side is rough cut and the other "good side" has a notch in the middle of the card that is noticable from BOTH the front and the back of the card.

My question is: Who's responsibility is this and where should I go to get reimbursed? The seller says that he usually just sells his "misgrades" ... and advised me to auction the card. I am not into passing the buck...and even if I was...this card would not do well under "full disclosure".

What is your opinion?


Regards,


Alan

mcastaldi

Alan> I would say there's plenty of blame to go around.

A couple things. . .
* Did the seller present the item as a "misgrade" anywhere in the eBay auction listing? If not, then his claim of selling only "misgrades" is rubbish.
* You're experienced and savvy enough to know that you take a risk whenever you buy a card without a scan. Depending on the seller, this can be a sometime significant risk - as you are finding out.
* Obviously, if it's that far off then it's possible it was overgraded by PSA.

So what to do?
It sounds like the seller will not take it back. In which case, you probably will get nothing from him. It would be hard to leave negative feedback since it was an 8 and that's what arrived. But I could understand neutral feedback since it wasn't accurately described.
You may also want to send Charlie an e-mail and see if you can have the card reevaluated. In my experience, PSA is genuinely interested in taking care of the most blatant overgrades because those are the cards that diminish the standards.

Mike

mikeschmidt

Acowa-

My key question is How was the card described in the Ebay lot description? Does the seller auctin off other items with scans? Does the seller have any policy re: returning cards?

On the last point, as a seller I include a scan of the card and have a policy of "No returns on graded cards". However, I have never been called on that. I certainly have refunded money when there have been card damage in shipments. I would do everything in my power to try and get a refund from the buyer. But I think that is highly dependent on how the item was listed.

I personally can't see how someone would have a "No returns on graded cards" policy for cards that they don't show scans of. That is why I would go after the seller first. I think a negative feedback is appropriate on a "sins of ommission" standard. He sold you a technically weak card, played off the price solely on the grade of the card (and not the card's actual strength), and he won't take the card back. Most major dealers will take cards back -- and they do this for a career! And they usually will even take cards back if there is a picture.

Assuming things don't work out with the seller, the next thing to try is to get a refund from PSA. Now, I ask only this: Are you sure that the card does not technically meet PSA's standards for an 8? It sure sounds like it doesn't, but I wanted to make sure. For example, many of us are very anal buyers. Myself included. I find multiple flaws, however minute, on all the PSA 10's I own, for example. So before you try and approach PSA, I would just want to confirm that there is no way that the card may technically fall within the qualifications of a PSA 8. (for example, you mention rough cuts, when our own BruceMo confirmed earlier this week that rough cuts are not supposed to affect grading [i hope that wasn't about SGC]...)

My minds keeps on going back to the seller. It sounds like his is deceptive and hiding something. He admits they are misgrades, and then he sells them on Ebay without a scan. It's just not right. Especially if refunds are not offered. Sounds like one of the true bottom-feeders of the collecting world.

dude

Acowa,

To me when a card is clearly overgraded, it should always be sent back to the grading company. Letting it pass hands is just not healthy for the hobby or the grading company. If it is clearly overgraded, I'm certain PSA will make good on the card. This should have been the original seller's responsibility. If he won't take it back and if he already gave you feedback (so there is no opportunity for retaliation), I'd nail him with a negative, especially if he admitted it was misgraded after he sold it to you.

I learned very quickly in my early days on eBay that buying unscanned graded cards is asking for trouble (just about all my problems had to do with grossly misrepresenting the centering). Even scans on eBay the size of a postage stamp are next to worthless. I've never figured out why some sellers refuse to get a scanner. If you are selling quality cards, the scanner will pay for itself in no time at all.

I've actually had three returns on graded cards. To me, they all were within the PSA standards. I think one return was due to the guy realizing that he paid too much and the other two were due to "not fitting their definition of NM-Mint". Since the scans were large, and sharp, I think this was a breakout artists who realized it was a long shot to get the higher grade once he had the cards in his hands.

zardoz51

If the card is as you describe, then it it obvious that it fails to meet the standards to be a PSA 8. Rather than get into a tug-of-war with the seller, the obvious solution would be to contact Charlie at PSA and have him handle the situation. As Dude stated, it is detremental for PSA to have that card in its holder. I make mistakes, you make mistakes, we all make mistakes, and PSA is no different. At least PSA will rectify the problem. Try that with BGS!

qualitycards

DUDE & ZARDOZ are 100% right to contact PSA.
They will do the right thing...jay

Vargha

I would politely contact the seller asking for a refund first. Secondly, I would check out (for my own curiosity) whether or not he has scans in other auctions. If he does and he balks on the return, politely mention this fact to him and ask again. Before sending it in to PSA, I would advise posting a scan so you can get some opinions on it. The centering alone, does not disqualify the card.

Lastly, although buying "sight unseen" is a case of caveat emptor, there are times when the risk is justified. I wish you the best on this one.

skylaneflyer

Alan,

Since I wasn't included on the solicitation list, I am in complete tears. On the other hand, I know PSA is capable of making mistakes occasionally. But in most cases, and 8 is an 8, and so on. The key is never to buy anything from someone you don't know without a scan. I have bought several cards from Dude and others that I know, sight unseen. In all cases the cards were well within the PSA grading tolerance.

If the guy won't send you your money back, I would never deal with that guy again. I always let people return items for any reason, or no reason at all. Why force people to keep something they aren't happy with? Life is too short. Send the card into PSA, I am sure that they will "take it off the board" and pay you a reasonable price for the card.

Sky