Help me grade my groat?

pendragon1998

I'm just entering the realm of the darkside, and I'm somewhat inexperienced with grading the older stuff. I'd appreciate any grading thoughts about this groat from those of you out there with more experience than me. I'd particularly appreciate hearing how you came to the grade you arrived at rather than just the grade, so I can get better at grading.

Thanks!

sumnom

I can't help you with the grading. I just want to say that I really like your groat. It is a pleasure to behold.

Bjorn

I would guess a good fine, due to the weakness on the wreath on the obverse and the details of the crown on the reverse. Some of the denticles appear very sharp though, such as would be found on a VF or better coin. The lower right 'C' on the reverse is probably from a weak strike or damage - can you tell which? I am not an expert on this series, just judging by similar early milled coins I have seen in auctions as well as the my knowledge of grading later British coins.

pendragon1998

I believe that the missing parts of the 'C's and FRA, as well as the weakness in the D in DEI and the upper head area of the portrait (remember this is in coin orientation) point toward a weakness of strike. The 'C's are barely visible, but they couldn't have been worn off without wearing down the rest of the coin proportionally. I don't see any apparent damage.

Daltonista

Without getting into split grades, as so many of our liteside colleagues are wont to do, I'd go with nVF on this one, attributing the fishy stuff on the Rx to strike, doe,, and/or planchet characteristics. For VF, you'd expect to see more detail in the hair above and behind the ear, I think, while for F there would be more wear, or less detail remaining, in the the hair in back of the neck...not to mention the chin. Legends look great aside from the comments noted above. Studying graded examples of Chuck II coinage (all denominations) in online auctions should help you narrow it down further. For starters, try Heritage Auction Galleries, current and archives, and perhaps Spink fixed price lists and auctions, and the Goldbergs. Wybrit and MacKinnon and a few other forum members will have some pretty good advice as well. (Hope I got their handles spelled right!)
Best ~
Tom

Daltonista

For what it's worth, this just in from the Goldbergs' pre-Long Beach
sale from last September, a sixpence graded "EF40":

BS

I would say a English VF.

lordmarcovan

I was hoping you'd post that.

The coin now has a pretty extensive Darksider pedigree, having come from Dan (coinpictures), to me, to you.

Dan, I believe, called it VF and I saw no reason to disagree. However, that's more of an American VF than a British VF.

As you may have discovered by reading your new Spink book, the British standards are tighter.

Edit: maybe it IS a Brit VF. For an American VF, it's quite strong. I think it looks better than that "EF40" posted above!

Further edit: PS- nice job on the photo. Like I said, I was hoping you would post it- I never had a picture made of it. It looks handsome in your picture. While I had it lying around here I never really took a good glass to it, and then it got shuffled into the clutter heap, and when I found it prior to sending it to you, I said to myself, "Wow, this one looks a little nicer than I remembered it in my head."

pendragon1998

Thanks to everyone who offered their thoughts on my groat. I think that I agree with the British VF opinions with the caveat of "I'm still learning to grade this stuff". I think the weakness of strike makes the upper head area of the portrait appear a lot more worn than it really is.

Lord M: Sorry for your seller's remorse, but don't worry...this groat is in a very loving home. I was delighted to read about the previous ownership here on the forum. This is a great group of folks. Thanks also for the compliment on the photography. My new (used) macro lens from Mark Goodman has been a blessing (although getting photoshop to crop out that irregular coin was a pain!)

Thanks everyone (and any additional opinions are still welcome).

Michael