HSN Hawks 2008 ANACS MS70 First Day of Issue Gold & Silver Eagles - J.P Martin makes personal ap
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It seems that ANACS is now going to be the Official Grading Service of HSN. On the HSN “Coin Collector” this morning they introduced J.P. Martin as one of the “Top Three Graders In the World” that is now with ANACS along with Michael Fahey. If anyone were hoping ANACS would rebuild their reputation your wasting your time, what little credibility they had just went out the window. The “MS70” Eagle they were showing was number 5 of 7498. For the one oz Gold Eagle it showed number 5 of 479 and on the 1/10th oz Eagles number 5 of 1979. Thats a lot of MS70’s even for ICG. I guess you can now put ANACS in the same category as SGS – Everything’s a 70!
On BS&T Now: Nothing.
Fighting the Fight for 11 Years with the big "C" - Never Ever Give Up!
Member PCGS Open Forum board 2002 - 2006 (closed end of 2006) Current board since 2006 Successful trades with many members, over the past two decades, never a bad deal.
Fighting the Fight for 11 Years with the big "C" - Never Ever Give Up!
Member PCGS Open Forum board 2002 - 2006 (closed end of 2006) Current board since 2006 Successful trades with many members, over the past two decades, never a bad deal.
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EAS.......Everything's A Seventy!
TD
e i e i o
And on his farm he graded coins;
e i e i o
With a 70 here and a 70 there
Here a 70 there a 70; everywhere a seven-tee
Ol McTaylor had a farm; e i e i o
<< <i>I guess you can now put ANACS in the same category as SGS – Everything’s a 70! >>
Sounds like a hit !
People want 70's - you give them 70's.
Great businesses are made by making what the people want.
PS - since when were HSN buyers real coin collectors anyway
<< <i>t seems that ANACS is now going to be the Official Grading Service of HSN. On the HSN “Coin Collector” this morning they introduced J.P. Martin as one of the “Top Three Graders In the World” that is now with ANACS >>
HSN, now thats the "kiss of death". It becomes apparent now which road ANAC's will take.
BST successful dealings with:MsMorrisine, goldman86
<< <i>Old McTaylor had a farm;
e i e i o
And on his farm he graded coins;
e i e i o
With a 70 here and a 70 there
Here a 70 there a 70; everywhere a seven-tee
Ol McTaylor had a farm; e i e i o >>
<< <i>I wonder if the HSN boyz have any $$$ invested in this venture? >>
Yeah I would love to see that contract especially with all the developments of the last few days.
BST successful dealings with:MsMorrisine, goldman86
<< <i>Did they show a picture of the coin? How can HSN already have them graded if the Mint announced they would be available on January 2nd? >>
They did explain that the coins in the holders were 2007 because the 2008 was not released yet, the slab shows 2008 on all of them. The slab on the Silver Eagle looked bad, lots of excess plastic around the edges, still using the newer ANACS slabs for these. Real trash.
They also disclosed that HSN has been working with ANACS for "A Long Time" to put together this deal. So it does look like they have a piece of the business.
Fighting the Fight for 11 Years with the big "C" - Never Ever Give Up!
Member PCGS Open Forum board 2002 - 2006 (closed end of 2006) Current board since 2006 Successful trades with many members, over the past two decades, never a bad deal.
<< <i>I wonder if the HSN boyz have any $$$ invested in this venture? >>
It would appear that they already do.
Top three graders on the planet? ROTFLMAO!!
Looks like my first inclination was right.
I was already through with ANACS for good after their latest Human Resources movement in Austin.
If it wasn't final before, it sure is now.
Disgusting!!
From a long term respected number three in the TPG game to the bottom in just one short week.
This guy's a freaking genius.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
Limited edition: 497
The design shows Lady Liberty striding forward holding a torch of knowledge and an olive branch of peace
The rising sun in the background symbolizes the hopes brought forward with each new day
The U.S. capitol building can be seen at about the 7 o'clock position surrounded by 50 stars to represent the 50 states
The reverse side shows a family of eagles
In Mint State condition with the highest possible grading of 70
Outstanding eye appeal and full original luster
Gold bullion coin - a genuine United States gold bullion coin, it contains 1 oz. solid gold.
Encapsulated - comes in a sonically sealed, tamper evident acrylic holder for preservation as well as presentation
Graded by an independent company
Measures approx. 1.28" in diameter
Weighs approx. 1.09 oz.
Contains approx. 1 oz. gold
Graded MS70 by ICG
Encapsulated
Anyone still considering ANACS for grading???
<< <i>
<< <i>I wonder if the HSN boyz have any $$$ invested in this venture? >>
It would appear that they already do.
Top three graders on the planet? ROTFLMAO!!
Looks like my first inclination was right.
I was already through with ANACS for good after their latest Human Resources movement in Austin.
If it wasn't final before, it sure is now.
Disgusting!!
From a long term respected number three in the TPG game to the bottom in just one short week.
This guy's a freaking genius. >>
Oops, forgot to add a message!
<< <i>This guy's a freaking genius. >>
Some here think he is a Moral God!
TOM ARCH == BUFFNIXX
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
<< <i>Could be the name for a new grading service:
EAS.......Everything's A Seventy!
TD >>
David
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
<< <i>Oops, forgot to add a message!
<< <i>This guy's a freaking genius. >>
Some here think he is a Moral God! >>
With all due respect, could you please explain that statement in a bit more detail.
Everyone is welcome to their opinion, but...... Moral God?
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
<< <i>You guys are jumping the gun. HSN could not have the 2008 Eagles yet they are mearly offering them for pre-sale with a photoshopped image of how they will look. The #0005 of 7498 does not mean they will have 7498 70's graded by ANACS, that number indicates that it is coin number 5 of a total of 7,498 First Day Of Issue ASE graded by ANACS. I suppose many of those will be less than 70. >>
Wrong again FLBuffaloHunter, the said they would go through as many as they had to to get the "7,498 Perfect First Day Of Issue MS70's " Watch the show and see for yourself!
Fighting the Fight for 11 Years with the big "C" - Never Ever Give Up!
Member PCGS Open Forum board 2002 - 2006 (closed end of 2006) Current board since 2006 Successful trades with many members, over the past two decades, never a bad deal.
<< <i>Did they show a picture of the coin? How can HSN already have them graded if the Mint announced they would be available on January 2nd? >>
Uhhh I believe they probably used PGS aka PHOTOSHOP GRADING SERVICE!!
<< <i>
<< <i>You guys are jumping the gun. HSN could not have the 2008 Eagles yet they are mearly offering them for pre-sale with a photoshopped image of how they will look. The #0005 of 7498 does not mean they will have 7498 70's graded by ANACS, that number indicates that it is coin number 5 of a total of 7,498 First Day Of Issue ASE graded by ANACS. I suppose many of those will be less than 70. >>
Wrong again FLBuffaloHunter, the said they would go through as many as they had to to get the "7,498" "Perfect MS70's" Watch the show and see for yourself! >>
That seems odd, why 7,498 and not 7,500?
<< <i>Wrong again FLBuffaloHunter, the said they would go through as many as they had to to get the "7,498" "Perfect MS70's" Watch the show and see for yourself! >>
Lemme take a wild stab at this......... I think they will probably need around 7500 pieces to achieve this goal.
After all, this is HSN. "Nuff said right there.
I wonder if they will now grade the gold and platinum plated nickels?
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
A holiday greeting, or what JT is?
<< <i>ho ho ho
A holiday greeting, or what JT is? >>
<< <i>Did they show a picture of the coin? How can HSN already have them graded if the Mint announced they would be available on January 2nd? >>
The crime vault has been showing and selling them for over a week now. HSN must have received a shippment same as them.
Fred, Las Vegas, NV
<< <i>A picture says a thousand words and so "GAME OVER, DEAD MEAT". If this is the new ANACS then no serious numismatist will take them seriously. It will be entertaining to watch both ICG and ANACS go down the crapper or implode. Good grief, how much worse can this get. I am now officialy appaled by the whole stinking mess. My ANACS proof-66 buffalo (in the new anacs holder) goes out for crossover next week. I am dumping all of my anacs (new holder) graded coins. ANACS JUST DIED.
TOM ARCH == BUFFNIXX >>
They may have died as far as the serious numismatist goes but I have a feeling they will realize a significant increase in revenues as a result of this venture with HSN. HSN reaches millions of people daily who are not even close to being coin "collectors" but will buy shiny baubles based on the marketing they watch on TV. A bright new shiny "rare silver dollar" for little Johnny's birthday from Grandma is the buyer they will attract and they will attract them in hordes I suspect.
It will be interesting as time goes on to see how many of these coins come into the shops of you dealers with storefront operations as little Johnny decides he wants to buy a new video game and tries to sell his "rare coin"
"A year later, the ANA board of governors sold ANACS to Amos Press, publishers of Coin World. In March 2005, Anderson Press, the parent company of Whitman Publishing and H.E. Harris, became the proud owners of ANACS and its rich and noble history. Today, ANACS stands ready to reclaim its rightful position of preeminence as America’s oldest grading service." (www.anacs.com)
As I've followed this discussion and it's side threads I always held out hope that it would not be as it seemed. My primary reason for NOT wanting to ever be employed in A B&M shop would be the heartbreak you would be a part of as you destroy the hopes and dreams of countless people who walk into the shop every day thinking their $100 SAE is now worth ??? and they are ready to retire. The thought of being a part of that filth is sad and repulsive. The bottom line . . . in the name of quick return, lives, reputations, and trust has been trashed and sullied. Obviously this flies in the face of numismatics being a lifelong hobby of 'learning', 'history', and 'education'. Ripping off imbeciles, the unknowing, and 70-tear-old ladies with HSN hype is not what I call perpetuating a "rich and noble history". It is instead preying upon the greed of an uneducated society, similar to our local supplement pyramids here in Utah.
I wonder if this has any ramifications for the Modern Collectors? Perhaps not . . . but will there be a proliferation of MS70s beyond what was otherwise thought?
I hope there is a lot to this I don't see, and the corporate wranglings, firings, hirings, and doubletalk all are a necessary part of returning ANACS to "Its rightful position of preeminence . . .".
Drunner
Drunner
<< <i>So what are these HSN and CV ASEs pre-selling for? $39.99? 5 or more just $49.99 each? >>
$99.95 ASE, $1799.95 1oz AGE, $279.95 1/10th oz AGE
Fighting the Fight for 11 Years with the big "C" - Never Ever Give Up!
Member PCGS Open Forum board 2002 - 2006 (closed end of 2006) Current board since 2006 Successful trades with many members, over the past two decades, never a bad deal.
Joe
<< <i>
<< <i>So what are these HSN and CV ASEs pre-selling for? $39.99? 5 or more just $49.99 each? >>
$99.95 ASE, $1799.95 1oz AGE, $279.95 1/10th oz AGE >>
UNREAL!
Time for eBay to ban ANACS/ICG slabs.
I'll give it a week to see if this nightmare improves, if not, then it's time to crack out all my ANACS slabs. A few of them are very nice pieces.
I'm sure they will slab elsewhere as these are the old, respectable, small slabs from years ago.
What a shame.
Money isn't everything.
I guess to some people it is, but in the end, they'll find they've gained nothing and lost their soul in the process.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
Well, there you have it. I wonder what (if anything) is now left of ICG ?
Everyone is already dumping all over ANACS - without actually seeing any of these coins in hand.
The question is, how stringent are the standards ? The majority of hand-packed modern US Mint products grade 69 or 70. Close to 20% of ALL NGC coins currently on eBay are graded "70". Maybe ANACS looks at five coins for every one they slab as "70", just like NGC ?
I respect JP Martin and his knowledge. I don't think he graded many of the modern coins while at ICG - but I assume he is now.
I bet PCGS and NGC would love to get more of this TV business. ANACS isn't the only business around that wants to make money.
<< <i>Wow -
Well, there you have it. I wonder what (if anything) is now left of ICG ?
Everyone is already dumping all over ANACS - without actually seeing any of these coins in hand.
The question is, how stringent are the standards ? The majority of hand-packed modern US Mint products grade 69 or 70. Close to 20% of ALL NGC coins currently on eBay are graded "70". Maybe ANACS looks at five coins for every one they slab as "70", just like NGC ?
I respect JP Martin and his knowledge. I don't think he graded many of the modern coins while at ICG - but I assume he is now.
I bet PCGS and NGC would love to get more of this TV business. ANACS isn't the only business around that wants to make money. >>
Interesting take Daniel.
<< <i>Wow -
Well, there you have it. I wonder what (if anything) is now left of ICG ?
Everyone is already dumping all over ANACS - without actually seeing any of these coins in hand. >>
My guess is that ICG will either find a niche market or be absorbed by ANACS, just a guess. Of course, they could fire them all on New Year's Eve with no warning, that would seem on par right about now.
As far as the dumping on ANACS: Two Factors
1)The way the Austin employees were treated on top of the timing of it. That's worth a score of shabby minus 2
2)The quick and immediate union with HSN, no way that wasn't planned out well in advance and no doubt it included shafting current employees at the expense of the almighty dollar. They could have been given plenty of warning as well as a meager severance package which would have gone miles towards their image.
That's worth a score of slimy, skanky and shabby minus 7.
So far the batting average isn't looking very good, in fact Ebeneezer Scrooge looks downright charitable in comparison to the very recent ANACS. The dumping is well deserved and it may indeed get worse. They may gain wealth through HSN and ripping off the ignorant, but in exchange they have become the pariah of the TPGs and lost all respect among real numismatists. They'll never again get a submission from me and I used to use them for particular series and designations. I trust many will be contacting eBay to request that they be removed from acceptable slabs.
It will be interesting if they show up at large shows, kind of like ACG setting up shop on the bourse. If they do and I am there, you can bet I'll spend a few minutes letting them know how they've lost my business and many others I know.
My main B&M submits to them as well as the big two. Hundreds monthly to each TPG. As of yesterday, no more submissioins are going to ANACS. You see, the owner of the shop is a man of principle. There's several hundred submissions monthly that are now gone. I'm certain that mood will only grow nationwide over time.
As someone said earlier, "And then there were two".
*Edit for spieleng*
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
Cameron goes from a young numismatist to head grader at ICG in 18 months. Tomorrow he'll be told he can sit at any desk he wants!
On a serious note, this new information is interesting, but not surprising. You don't walk into a bank asking for a loan and telling the loan officer your business plan is to have a van full of equipment moved to Englewood and sit idle. The deals with HSN and others including commitment from the ICG graders was part of the portfolio presented to the bank to get the loan. The speed and secrecy at which is took place says something for JT's ability. Had any piece of the puzzle not fallen into place, it would have been a big problem. The original plan was probably for ICG. When that fell through, he made an attractive offer for ANACS knowing the HSN deal was ready to go December 30th.
Nothing easier than selling graded bullion at a huge mark-up.
Joe
<< <i>The laugh is on us.
Cameron goes from a young numismatist to head grader at ICG in 18 months. Tomorrow he'll be told he can sit at any desk he wants!
Joe >>
Yeah! Hopefully within the building.
He was the first person that came to mind when I heard about all this mess.
Usually the cream rises to the top, in which case he'd be sitting pretty.
OTOH, the scum seems to be rising to the top right now and they may decide they don't want to pay for quality graders.
He has my best wishes, hope he does well. Then again, he has principles as well. He may decide he belongs somewhere else.
Either way, I'm sure he'll turn up in a good place.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
It sounds to me like Anderson Press is the one that dumped on their employees. They sold the brand name and equipment to Driving Force, and gave no warning to THEIR employees.
<< <i>Is the new ANACS/ICG sinking to the bottom and playing to the bottom feeders? Are they going to be "surpassed" by, say, SEGS now? >>
I like SEGS better than ICG and ANACS
<< <i>It sounds to me like Anderson Press is the one that dumped on their employees. They sold the brand name and equipment to Driving Force, and gave no warning to THEIR employees. >>
Well JT knew that ANACS was being purchased too and kept his mouth shut. Seems like both sides deliberately used the ANACS employees and then dumped em like AIDS infested lepers when neither side had any use for them. Sounds like JT mite a had a use for them or some of them if he couldn't have gotten the ICG people.
<< <i>It sounds to me like Anderson Press is the one that dumped on their employees. >>
No question about that. But, there is also no question that the deal Taylor made with HSN is the last nail in the coffin for ANACS as a legitimate grading service.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
<< <i>It sounds to me like Anderson Press is the one that dumped on their employees. They sold the brand name and equipment to Driving Force, and gave no warning to THEIR employees. >>
Well JT knew that ANACS was being purchased too and kept his mouth shut. Seems like both sides deliberately used the ANACS employees and then dumped em like AIDS infested lepers when neither side had any use for them. Sounds like JT mite a had a use for them or some of them if he couldn't have gotten the ICG people. >>
Why wouldn't JT keep his mouth shut ? In a business deal like this, you never disclose anything until the deal is done. Taylor bought the brand name and equipment - nothing else. From reading the Ellis letter, it sounds like Anderson Press basically skipped town without even saying goodbye.