Question about this probable fake...

Bjorn

Hello all...

I was just perusing some ebay listings and found this German crown - it looks pretty good but I assume its fake due to the auction style. What would give away a coin of this caliber, as opposed to the 'made for tourist' fakes?

http://cgi.ebay.com/GERMANY-1842-2-THALER-COIN_W0QQitemZ220186585557QQihZ012QQcategoryZ540QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Dawg144

Link

It's from China...

coinnerd

LINK

I'm too slow.

satootoko

It's
1. From a Chinese seller
2. with a neg claiming he sold a counterfeit
3. in a "private" sale
4. with (putting it charitably) less than stellar photos
5. and some of the same hype language found in the listings of known counterfeit sellers.

Enough red flags for you

Personally, even if I had a place for it in my collection, the S/H alone would exceed my max "gamble" bid.



(BTW, you can truncate any long EBay listing right after the item number and it will still work perfectly.)

IloiloKano

You forgot to add...

Hit and Run 3-day listing

Bjorn

Good answers, and the main reasons I would suspect the auction. I guess I should have phrased my question better - what about the coin itself invites suspicion? This particular one looks good enough that if it was auction by someone in the US who 'seemed' legitimate, I may consider it. Most fakes I have seen in the past usually have a porous or kind of fuzzy look.

sumnom

Is there anything about the coin that would lead one to suspect it is a counterfeit?

spoon

Regardless of whether or not it is fake, this is not a rare coin.

Just wait until a better example comes along. These are lousy pics not worth gambling on and those spots on either side make it worth waiting for a better example. And if that's not bad enough, the shipping cost surely should be a deterrent.

For what it's worth, I don't think this is a fake.. though I can't say with any certainty due to the poor pics. Simply being sold from China does not necessarily make it so! Also, it looks like it suffered a light cleaning at best and has at least one major contact mark.

So... back to my original point: wait for a better example of this coin.

Dawg144

Disclaimer: all I know about this coin comes from this Heritage auction

The differences I see between the coins (based on the sellers cruddy pics) are:

1) The mouth and eye on the obverse look kind of funky, though I'm not entirely sure why
2) The "R" in "PRINZ" on the reverse strikes me as misshapen
3) The "E" in "BAYERN" on the obverse has the top and bottom serifs almost touching

You're right, this is quite a good counterfeit (assuming it is one). I bought a similarly remarkable 1958 S.A. 5s with George V on it for $5.

Daltonista

Dawg!
That's the world-famous MULE crown that got out of the mint back in '58!
SA specialists have been searching for it these last fifty years!
And you paid only five bucks for it ?????
That's fabulous!
I think I read about that a long time ago one of the specialized
catalogs...let's see: was it Pridmore or Remick?
Maybe Kaplan, ho ho! Check it out!
Happy New Year!
Tom

Bjorn

Thanks for all the answers guys - I see another chinese fake thread has popped as well in the meantime!

Bjorn

lordmarcovan

<< <i>What would give away a coin of this caliber, as opposed to the 'made for tourist' fakes? >>

It's a good question, and not an easy one to answer. Sometimes it's a "softer-than-you-might-expect" strike, sometimes it's the dull, lackluster (literally) surfaces, sometimes it's just smoething "off" about it that I can't put a finger on. Usually the shapes and serifs of the lettering are off somehow- that is always the biggest clue for me on issues I'm familiar with. As this is not a type I've handled genuine examples of, I would have to rely more on color and strike.

In this case, that's in addition to the red flag issues that Roy just pointed out.

ASUtodd

Bjorn, what coin is pictured in your avatar? I can't quite make it out.
Todd

Bjorn

Thanks for asking ASUTodd!

It actually is an icon uploaded by another user of a token, I believe a conder, from Dundee, Scotland.

laurentyvan

I've seen this dealer come up a number of times over a period of months in a variety of venues, always in the arena of questionable Chinese auctions. I don't think he's a good guy...

You would think these sellers would hire a local english-speaking school teacher to proof their English auction language- man, something I hope they never do.