Is this 1795 $1 a fake??

DoubleEagle59

I've been comparing this picture to genuine ones (Heritage auction archives) and one difference is the "R" in Liberty. Heritage coins seems to have a flat base of 'R', while the coin in this photo has a prominant 'curl base' to the 'R'.

I'm thinking this photo is of a fake.

What is everyone's opinions. (this coin is from the seller of the 'grandfather collection!!)

braddick

This one's a fake, for sure, so it might help to compare it to yours.

roadrunner

If you mean the straight leg of the "R" then that split base is typical. The outer leg seems similar to other photos of 1795 dollars.

So on that alone I can't say it's not authentic. It's no VG-Fine imo.

roadrunner

Russ

Here's the real deal for comparison:




Russ, NCNE

DoubleEagle59

Thanks Russ...on your coin, see how the bottom of the 'R' is flat, whereas the fakes are 'curled'. Isn't this a defining characteristic for fake and genuine?

AUandAG

The lowest hair curl is not accurate for a real dollar. All the pics I see show a curl that is slight and not
so distinct as yours.
Fake in my opinion.
bob

vplite

<< <i>I've been comparing this picture to genuine ones (Heritage auction archives) and one difference is the "R" in Liberty. Heritage coins seems to have a flat base of 'R', while the coin in this photo has a prominant 'curl base' to the 'R'.

I'm thinking this photo is of a fake.

What is everyone's opinions. (this coin is from the seller of the 'grandfather collection!!)


>>



Maybe Gramps liked fakes. The "grandfather" should be a flashing red light.

Russ

<< <i>The lowest hair curl is not accurate for a real dollar. All the pics I see show a curl that is slight and not
so distinct as yours. >>



There are varieties that have that distinctive curl.

Russ, NCNE

coinkat

No one else has written so it could just be me, But I really think the digits look different... perhaps too bold for what one would anticipate for this grade

MrEureka

Russ - Your coin is of a different variety, so it does little good to compare to the coin in question.

Braddick - What diagnostics give your coin away as a fake?

Everyone - How is it that the bottoms of the letters are shaped the way they are? Is that the way the letter punches are actually shaped? Or do the letters get distorted as the dies wear?

au58

What does the reverse look like?
Heritage lot 1728 clearly shows an "R" with a curl base.

GoldenEyeNumismatics

Nothing pops out to me saying the coin would be fake. It's unnaturally smooth though. If it turns out to be real I'm willing to bet it's been tooled.

braddick

<< <i>Russ - Your coin is of a different variety, so it does little good to compare to the coin in question. Braddick - What diagnostics give your coin away as a fake? Everyone - How is it that the bottoms of the letters are shaped the way they are? Is that the way the letter punches are actually shaped? Or do the letters get distorted as the dies wear? >>



Although it is die struck on a silver planchet and is of the correct weight (with the proper edge lettering/symbols) the fact I purchased it from a dealer out of China direct, for about $100.00 is the biggest 'tell'.

CaptHenway

<< <i>Russ - Your coin is of a different variety, so it does little good to compare to the coin in question.

Braddick - What diagnostics give your coin away as a fake?

Everyone - How is it that the bottoms of the letters are shaped the way they are? Is that the way the letter punches are actually shaped? Or do the letters get distorted as the dies wear? >>



Some early coins struck in an open collar show what is called bifurcation in the base of an upright of a letter, caused by the outward flow of the planchet during the strike. The metal build up in the bottom serifs of the letter because they are perpendicular to the flow of the metal and act as small dams in the flow, but the metal trying to fill up the main part of the upright just keeps moving outwards and does not fill up the very bottom of the upright.

The effect can vary depending upon the strength of the strike and the hardness of the planchets, so that one coin from a given die variety might show the bifurcation and another coin might not.

As to the original posting, my first impression was plugged and heavily polished. I would want to see the coin before saying if it was genuine or fake.

TD

PQMorgans

Link to Coin Facts 1795 $1

Also try to search Teletrade for past year, there are about 5 that sold.

Nysoto

The obverse appears to be B-5. Fields look smoothed, LIBERTY looks strong compared to rest of coin and may have been tooled. Still could be a cast or transfer fake. I have noticed recent copies/fakes on early half dollars have strong bifurcated letters. If genuine, a common variety, no reason to go after this dog.

robkool

Not geniune... The base on the letters in LIBERTY just don't look right.

jdillane

<< <i>This one's a fake, for sure, so it might help to compare it to yours.



>>



Am impressive fake, I will say. How do you know? Weight? Silver content?

Nysoto

Braddick's coin also matches B-5 obverse and reverse. Some roughness and pitting on reverse could indicate a cast coin, the edge lettering, weight, and ringtone would give answers. Raw early dollars on ebay are risky, unless you are an expert at attributing early dollars.