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More than you ever wanted to know about Indian Head cent clash marks

This post hopefully will make IH cent clash marks obvious for all collectors to see, understand, and appreciate.

The huge number of variety IHs struck in the mid to late 1800's make it obvious that Mint employees at this time
were either incompetent, bored or inebriated. Or they could care less about the lowly cent they were striking,
many of which would be melted down to create new coins.

One of the results of this incompetence is the clashed die:

Upper and lower dies coming together in a coin press without a planchet between them; design details may be partially
impressed in the opposite dies and subsequently as mirror images on coins struck from the clashed dies


It's amazing how many Indian Cents are clashed to some degree.
Some dates, like the 1877, are so commonly clashed their reverse clash marks are a sign of authenticity.
image


Lets break it down. The diagnostics of IH reverse clashes:
image

The diagnostics are obvious in this image, c/o IrishMike.
You can even see the feathers on this incredibly deeply clashed reverse.
image


Obverse clashes are tougher to find in such detail due to the nature of the design.
The obverse IH profile has more relief than the reverse, so the clash marks never get as deep and detailed.

This is as deeply clashed an IH obverse as you will ever find. All the marks made by the inside of the wreath.
It was at least double struck by a clashed die, maybe triple stuck.
image

The diagnostics of the obverse clash from an old forum post of mine.
image


Then there are the fun clashes, the off center ones. Not only did the dies come together with no
coin between them, they managed to fall at an angle.

My favorite, the 1880 S1 off center reverse clash, and an overlay of how the obverse die struck it:
image

A lesser off center reverse clash, the 1889 S31 with the denticles from the O of ONE to E of CENTS.
image



There you go, more than you wanted to know about IH clash marks image










Comments

  • SwampboySwampboy Posts: 13,019 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This is outstanding!

    Thanks shylock.

    I'm going to drag out all my IHCs and test drive my new 9x right now. image

    "Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso

  • coinsarefuncoinsarefun Posts: 21,739 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Now this is image

    That's what I love about this forum. I'm always learning.
    What a great hobby, you can have so much fun and learn at the same time.
    Thanks for taking the time and post the information.
    Keep up the good workimage
  • shylock,

    your posts just get better and better...keep em' coming image
    image
  • 66RB66RB Posts: 2,516 ✭✭✭
    That looks like it took a lot of work to do that shylock, thanks for posting it!

    I must ask a question. Is Irishmike's coin displaying an incredibly deep clash, or is it a strike from a very recently clashed die? It would seem that die spacing would limit the 'deepness' of the clash, while die state would have a more noticeable progression?

    Again, great post! image
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,402 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Love those overlays - great photography! image
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
  • numismanumisma Posts: 3,877 ✭✭✭✭

    Excellent work! Thank you.
  • DRUNNERDRUNNER Posts: 3,868 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Geeeez . . . . . .

    That is some awesome work. I nominate it for a last minute Post-Of-The-Year . . .

    Drunner
  • Batman23Batman23 Posts: 4,999 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nice post. I just dug out my 1877 cent and, although not as nice as the ones you posted, it was pretty cool to see the light die clash on the reverse and obverse.
  • Great post! Thanks.
  • Awesome work! Thanks for sharing!
  • CaptainRonCaptainRon Posts: 1,189 ✭✭
    Great job once again Shylock.

    That 1880 is so cool, any idea how it could of hit like that?

    I can never get sick of seeing Mike's reverse clash that one is awsome, is that a new picture of that coin?

    Lakesammman - didn't you own both of those 1865's at one time?

    Regards
    Ron

    image
  • tightbudgettightbudget Posts: 7,299 ✭✭✭
    Great post!
  • IrishMikeIrishMike Posts: 7,737 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Great job once again Shylock.

    That 1880 is so cool, any idea how it could of hit like that?

    I can never get sick of seeing Mike's reverse clash that one is awsome, is that a new picture of that coin?

    Lakesammman - didn't you own both of those 1865's at one time?

    Regards
    Ron >>



    No that picture of my 1865 was taken by shylock a few years back. He and I admired the coin when it came up for auction and shylock was nice enough not to compete with me for it. I own several die clashed IHC's and this by far shows the best detail of a reverse clash that I have come across. I sent it to shylock, not only because of his interest in it but he is still one of the best shooters on the boards as well as a friend. Here is the complete photo shots he took for me. It is probably one of the first made after the clash.

    image
  • CaptainRonCaptainRon Posts: 1,189 ✭✭
    Thanks for posting those as well Mike,

    That IHC is tops man, one that I always enjoy seeing pictures of, perhaps one day our paths will cross and I'll get the pleasure to see it in person.

    Ron
    image
  • shylockshylock Posts: 4,288 ✭✭✭
    66RB - I must ask a question. Is Irishmike's coin displaying an incredibly deep clash, or is it a strike from a very recently clashed die? It would seem that die spacing would limit the 'deepness' of the clash, while die state would have a more noticeable progression?

    Totally die state. Mike's coin had to of been one of the first coins struck by this newly clashed die. 1865s offer great examples of clashes,
    but not like this. Try to find one.

    If you think about the minting process, and consider that clash marks were impressed so weakly on dies compared the design itself,
    and then consider how tough it is to find an early die state IH of any date, you come to appreciate how rare Mike's incredible clash is.
    Certainly not as valuable as an early die state high grade IH. But you can make a great case for it being rarer. Clash marks wore
    down very quickly on IH dies, to the point where we only see the more pronounced areas (chin, nose line, feather junctions) on
    almost all reverse IH examples. Most clashed die IHs were likely faint even in the early die states.

    Mike, who spotted this coin first and was kind enough to share it, hit IH clashmark perfection (perfect incompetence?) with his 1865 image
  • shylockshylock Posts: 4,288 ✭✭✭
    CaptainRon - That 1880 is so cool, any idea how it could of hit like that?

    One of the great unsolved mysteries of IH cent varieties (This clash is so cool it managed to get variety status).
  • greghansengreghansen Posts: 4,301 ✭✭✭
    Thanks for sharing. Lots of stuff in that post I've never seen before.

    Greg Hansen, Melbourne, FL Click here for any current EBAY auctions Multiple "Circle of Trust" transactions over 14 years on forum

  • CheddyCheddy Posts: 411 ✭✭
    image

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