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"satin"(mint sets) vs busiess stries

I'm concerned that I goofed by replacing most of the Kennedy's I had in my album that were BU with "satin finished" coins from mint sets. I looked up "satin finish" on the PCGS website-
"satin finish
Another of the experimental Proof surfaces used on U.S. gold coins after 1907. The dies were treated in some manner to create the silky surfaces imparted to the coins."
These coins certainly are not gold nor are they proof, but I've heard coins in mint sets called "satin finish" tons of times. Business strikes and coins struck for mint sets are probably "made" the same way, but surely handled differently. I have 4 Ikes I want to send into NGC(I am so sure they will be graded high). They came from mint sets. Do TPGs label them differently from business strikes? I hope I didn't screw up!

Comments

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,353 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Do TPGs label them differently from business strikes? >>

    image
  • I'd rather have a ms67-68 in Business strike Non mint set than any Satin. JMO
    Happy Holidays
  • Zoins,
    Is pricing different between them?
  • TheRavenTheRaven Posts: 4,143 ✭✭✭✭
    I pay no attention to the satin finish coins from the mint sets.....

    I have my mint sets and that is all I care about.....
    Collection under construction: VG Barber Quarters & Halves
  • Type2Type2 Posts: 13,985 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think the business strike will be worth more, a lot less of them will be sent in for grading and saved, just look at all of the coin's sent in you will have to get a SP-69 or a SP-68 to get the price of a MS-66. In 2005 when the new satin finish was out most collectors sent in the mint set satin finish coins and not even thinking of the business strike I think they miss the boat but that is just me. image


    Hoard the keys.
  • Here's another: In anticipated prepeareration to send in the best 4 of 6 Ikes, I moved them from the original mint's packagings to non-pvc pocket flips. Will NGC know and label accordingly?
  • Type2Type2 Posts: 13,985 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, they can tell will put SMS on the satin and MS on the business strike's.


    Hoard the keys.
  • Whats a busiess strike?
    Luck happens when preparation meets opportunity.
  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 7,052 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Are the Ikes from mint sets considered satin finish?

    I was under the impression that satin finish coins only started showing up in mint sets a few years ago, and that mint sets from the 1970s just contained regular business strike coins.

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

  • A business strike is a coin for the general use(pocket change).
  • RWBRWB Posts: 8,082
    "satin finish - Another of the experimental Proof surfaces used on U.S. gold coins after 1907. The dies were treated in some manner to create the silky surfaces imparted to the coins."

    The above is incorrect. “Satin” proof gold coins were made in 1909-1910. The same process was used in 1921-22 to make satin proof Peace dollars, and possibly one 1921 double eagle.

    A satin proof was made by striking the planchet with new dies in a high tonnage medal press. There was no special treatment to either dies or coins. The surfaces are those of new dies free of metal flow and damage. Some 1921 Peace dollars have a similar satiny flat metallic look – very unlike the kind of luster normally associated with silver dollars. (“Sandblast proof” coins were made by sandblasting satin proofs.)

    Modern “satin” coins from mint sets are made with specially finished dies – not the same process as in the early 20th Century.

    FWIW – A really choice circulation strike is much more desirable than a coin cut from a mint set.


  • << <i> "satin finish - Another of the experimental Proof surfaces used on U.S. gold coins after 1907. The dies were treated in some manner to create the silky surfaces imparted to the coins."

    The above is incorrect. “Satin” proof gold coins were made in 1909-1910. The same process was used in 1921-22 to make satin proof Peace dollars, and possibly one 1921 double eagle.

    A satin proof was made by striking the planchet with new dies in a high tonnage medal press. There was no special treatment to either dies or coins. The surfaces are those of new dies free of metal flow and damage. Some 1921 Peace dollars have a similar satiny flat metallic look – very unlike the kind of luster normally associated with silver dollars. (“Sandblast proof” coins were made by sandblasting satin proofs.)

    Modern “satin” coins from mint sets are made with specially finished dies – not the same process as in the early 20th Century.

    FWIW – A really choice circulation strike is much more desirable than a coin cut from a mint set. >>






    Probably the best place to get business strike (non satin finish) state quarters is from the official mint state quarter rolls. I assume it is the same for nickels, halves and dollars as well.
    Luck happens when preparation meets opportunity.
  • Type2Type2 Posts: 13,985 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Only the 2005 to now are satin finish that is why to keep your set all Business strike you need to buy rolls from the mint or bank if they have them, or you can mix your set with the satin you know how many collectors will be doing that just something to keep in mind. Why be in the box looking out when you can be out of the box looking in ? But that is just me.


    Hoard the keys.
  • So I wasn't truly wrong by replacing early(under 90s) Kennedy business strikes with those from Mint Sets? And when you said, "...SMS..." You meant Satin Mint Sets?
  • Type2Type2 Posts: 13,985 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>So I wasn't truly wrong by replacing early(under 90s) Kennedy business strikes with those from Mint Sets? And when you said, "...SMS..." You meant Satin Mint Sets? >>

    SMS Special mint set for NGC, ICG will put SP-00, PCGS will put MS-00 but have satin finish on the holder.


    Hoard the keys.
  • What does SP stand for?
    one last one:
    I noticed in www.bestcoin.com that 1964 halves, quarters, dimes, nickels and cents have a variety listing of SMS, but it is NOT listed under "mint sets" http://www.bestcoin.com/us-mint-sets.htm So what does SMS stand for? Special or Souvenir Mint Set? Someone on collectorsunivese.com says only a "handful" were made and not much more was mentioned.. An eBay dealer swears they don't exist, another offered to sell me one of three he has. I am aware of the 65, 66 and 67 and ask if it's kosher to use them coins to upgrade my Kennedy mint set(I'm too proud of this set and upgrade with the best I can get).
    I thank you for your replies and time and wish you a good holiday.
  • crickets cricketing......Anyone?
  • 1965-1967 Mint Sets were not Business strike, they are Special Mint Set coins using a special minting process, and will grade as either business strike (like from an original bank roll) or SMS. I believe some 1964 SMS coins got out also, but are rare. The 2005-now mint sets are Satin Finish, and again, are minted with a satin finish unlike the business strikes, from OBW or US Mint Rolls. All other US Mint Set coins are business strike I believe.
    imageQuid pro quo. Yes or no?
  • cladkingcladking Posts: 28,701 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Regular mint set coins are indistinguishable from coins made for circulation. They
    are, however, made to a much higher standard. They are struck at lower speeds
    and higher pressure by new dies. There is sometimes a little extra care with plan-
    chet preparation as well, but this applies primarily to coins struck since 1986. These
    same techniques can apply to circulation issues that it is rare. In any case it's impos-
    sible to positively identify mint set coins because the speed and pressure of a strike
    can not be discerned from the finished product. Even circulation dies which can strike
    over a million coins started out as new as do the vast majority of mint set strikes.

    SMS was used initially for the '65 to '67 issues which were a proof set/ mintset hybrid
    but the term has also been employed for use in various more recent issues which are
    struck a single time like a mint coin rather than a proof.

    Satin Finish is a term they are using for the 2005 and later mint set coins which are now
    struck from chrome plated dies. The term has been used previously for other purposes.
    Tempus fugit.
  • TYVM guys
  • MarkMark Posts: 3,546 ✭✭✭✭✭
    zeek:

    Cladking was, of course, 100% correct. (I wish he'd write a book that contains what he knows about modern coins!)

    Additionally, re the 1965-1967 SMS: The SMS stands for "Special Mint Sets." I was collecting during that era and collectors generally disliked those coins because 1) they were much more expensive than the previously issued proof sets--$4.00 for the SMS versus $2.10 for the previous proof sets, and 2) the quality of the SMS sets was a LOT less than that of proof sets. (Today, though, there are some uncommon SMS coins with CAM or DCAM finishes; such coins were not widely collected in the 1960s, so I saw none of them during that era.) I think it is difficult for PCGS to distinguish between SMS and regular MS coins, so often well struck MS coins come back labeled as SMS, much to the dismay of the submitter who'd prefer the MS designation because the coin is worth more as an MS than a SMS.

    Finally, re 1964 SMS sets: You can search these boards for threads dealing with thse coins. In a nutshell, there seem to be about 12 of these sets. Stacks auctioned most (perhaps all? I don't know) of them from one collection. In the words of QDB (and Longacre) these coins are excessively rare.
    Mark


  • Starting in 2005, there are 3 different type of coins, Proof, Satin finish
    Mint set coins and non-satin business strikes.
    A person wanting all the issues of 2007 would have to buy 70
    different coins plus the 7 silver coins from the silver Proof set.
    77 different coins total.
    image
  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 7,052 ✭✭✭✭✭

    77 different coins total.

    Plus 8 First Spouse, 4 Jamestown, 2 Little Rock, 13 Platinum Eagles, 12 Gold Eagles, 3 Silver Eagles, and 2 Gold Buffalos!



    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

  • So I guess with the 2005 change there is no real reason for buying a mint set, except an exuberant costly pop. I was buying mint sets, 05 and beyond for a presidential, sac and Kennedy collection. I guess I need to do it the hard way.
  • 7Jaguars7Jaguars Posts: 7,534 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think a lot of us have rebelled at the numbers of coins required and doing it the hard way. Used to care, but not any more! I think the mint could go back to reg. circulation strikes but take care of the individual specimens going into the mint sets.
    Love that Milled British (1830-1960)
    Well, just Love coins, period.

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