Wow - 5 1792 Half Dismes in the Same Auction

itsnotjustme · December 21, 2007 8:43PM

Now that the Heritage Search is functional, I realised there are 5 1792 hlaf dismes in the FUN auction. I can't recall seeing anything like that in the same auction before. The best is MS63.

etexmike · December 21, 2007 9:03PM

Five of them.

And, not a single one in my price range.

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etexmike

Unknown · December 22, 2007 2:28AM

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ziggy29 · December 22, 2007 2:30AM

One has to wonder if the market top has been hit when all of these start coming to market to sell while the selling's good.

ahooka454 · December 22, 2007 2:41AM

WOW!!!

5 1792 half disme's...

thats a new one for me. that issue is a personal favorite for me.

mrearlygold · December 22, 2007 2:59AM

Wow!

MrEureka · December 22, 2007 3:19AM

One of these is significantly larger than the other four. Can you tell from the photos below which one is "different"?

The one that will be withdrawn.

MrEureka · December 30, 2007 7:47AM

I just noticed that the XXL specimen being offered in the FUN sale has a provenance. It previously appeared in the August 2001 Heritage auction - in the same slab - where they noted the following:

Ex: Harold Blauvelt Collection (Bowers and Merena, 2/77), lot 997.
From the Collection of Dr. Joseph M. Seventko.

jmski52 · December 30, 2007 8:11AM

There is no hope until I win the lottery. And if I did, I'd buy every one of them!

IGWT · December 30, 2007 8:17AM

One of these is significantly larger than the other four. Can you tell from the photos below which one is "different"?

The one that will be withdrawn.

It's apparent when the slabs are included to compare relative size. Interesting!

Cladiator · December 30, 2007 10:50PM

...LINK...

UtahCoin · December 30, 2007 10:53PM

Might be time to start working on a roll set.....

ScarsdaleCoin · December 30, 2007 11:07PM

widgets

HC · January 6, 2008 12:46AM

Andy - Are you serious about one of these being a fake? I hadn't seen any further discussion nor one removed from the sale. I expect you were referring to the XF45 one?

MrEureka · January 6, 2008 1:34AM

Andy - Are you serious about one of these being a fake?

I didn't say the coin was was fake, although I wouldn't rule out the possibility. I also no longer expect the coin to be withdrawn, although I would be surprised if PCGS does not at some point try to take the coin off the market.

Barry · January 6, 2008 2:24AM

<< Andy - Are you serious about one of these being a fake?

I didn't say the coin was was fake, although I wouldn't rule out the possibility. I also no longer expect the coin to be withdrawn, although I would be surprised if PCGS does not at some point try to take the coin off the market. >>

If buyers are willing to pay big bucks for it, why would PCGS try to remove it? There's still no convincing evidence I'm aware of that the coin was enlarged post-strike. Be interesting to get a weight on it (obviously not possible while entombed.)

MrEureka · December 10, 2008 3:35AM

Reappearing in this year's FUN sale.

collegecoincollector · December 10, 2008 3:37AM

Wow! thanks for sharing, i'll keep my eye on them and see how much they go for

ColonialCoinUnion · December 10, 2008 3:39AM

<< Re-appearing in this year's FUN sale.

>>

Thanks for the update here - I'm surprised but pleased to see that.

DennisH · December 10, 2008 3:58AM

The bust on #2 looks smaller than the others; it appears to be positioned much lower under the word "Liberty".

The bust on #4 looks much bigger.

IGWT · December 10, 2008 4:02AM

"Flattened" doesn't work for me. The coin was made flat, and it's no flatter now. How 'bout "thinned"?

Here's a link to a thread with a picture of the coin as it appeared before being withdrawn from the Jan. '08 auction.

MrEureka · December 10, 2008 4:03AM

Here's the new catalog description:

1792 H10C Half Disme, Judd-7, Pollock-7, R.4--Flattened--PCGS Genuine. Almost exactly the size of a 1796 dime, when we first saw this coin over a year ago we thought it might be a special coin. It has XF45 Details, and when one considers it has been flattened it is surprising how much definition there is on this piece, with the details as balanced and even as would be seen on a normally circulated coin. In last year's FUN auction, several experts spotted this coin in an unqualified PCGS holder and commented that it had been flattened. It seemed illogical but examination showed that the coin was indeed wider than a normal half disme, so PCGS bought it off the market in a deal negotiated with our consignor, then re-consigned it to this auction.
Most likely over two centuries ago, this piece had apparently been placed between two pieces of leather then meticulously and lightly struck with a mallet. It was wide enough to pass as a disme or an early dime. The diameter of a half disme is approximately 17 mm, while a disme measures approximately 22 mm. This coin has a diameter of 20 mm. So, after flattening it was closer to the diameter of a disme than a half disme.
All that considered, this is an unusually pleasing half disme. The flattening does not appear to have materially affected any of the design elements. The hair of Liberty and the eagle's breast feathers are significantly stronger than one usually sees, leading us to the conclusion that the flattening must have occurred shortly after it was produced. There is a curved scratch through LF and to the eagle's right (facing) wing, and there is also an area of planchet cracking on the lower left portion of the reverse. Otherwise, the surfaces are unremarkable for a half disme and the coin only shows the small marks one would expect. Both obverse and reverse are light gray with deeper gray accents in the recesses and brightness over the high points. All in all, this is a remarkable half disme with an interesting story to tell.

ColonialCoinUnion · December 10, 2008 4:03AM

<< The bust on #2 looks smaller than the others; it appears to be positioned much lower under the word "Liberty". >>

it may look that way in this photo comparison, but it isn't.

<< The bust on #4 looks much bigger. >>

It is, because it has been flattened.

MrEureka · December 10, 2008 4:14AM

You know, somebody probably really did try to pass this coin for ten cents at some time. If only coins could talk!

IGWT · December 10, 2008 4:16AM

Here's the new catalog description:

. . . This coin has a diameter of 20 mm. So, after flattening it was closer to the diameter of a disme than a half disme. . . . .

Looks like the calculation of 19.4 mm based on images alone (in the OP of the linked thread) was pretty close after all!

MrEureka · December 10, 2008 4:42AM

What's the diameter of a 1792 disme? (Not a half disme, but a disme.)

IGWT · December 10, 2008 4:50AM

What's the diameter of a 1792 disme? (Not a half disme, but a disme.)

23 mm.

MrHalfDime · December 10, 2008 5:57AM

"You know, somebody probably really did try to pass this coin for ten cents at some time."

I suppose that is possible ....... except for the fact that is says "HALF DISME" on the reverse. I think I am in agreement with IGWT on this one. I have seen formerly bent half dimes which have been 'straightened' by hammering between strips of leather, and they always result in some damage to the high points like lettering and major device, however slight. I do not see that kind of damage on this half disme, leading me to believe that it was not 'flattened', but was always this diameter, and thus perhaps a bogus piece. There is no historical evidence (to my knowledge) of two die pairs for the 1792 half disme, so that is not a likely possibility. And even though the 1792 half dismes were struck without a collar, they would not have 'spread' that much under the pressure of a hand screw press. In order for a legitimate 1792 half disme to 'spread' from a diameter of 17 mm to 20 mm (over 17% of its normal diameter!), there would have to be significant distortion of the devices.

Cladiator · December 10, 2008 8:39AM

<< In order for a legitimate 1792 half disme to 'spread' from a diameter of 17 mm to 20 mm (over 17% of its normal diameter!), there would have to be significant distortion of the devices. >>

It must have been struck on the day Popeye was spinning the press, bet they had spinach for lunch

Seriously though, if the spread had happened upon striking due to not having a coller the details of the coin would appear to be very weakly struck as not enough metal would have flowed up into the die to create the details completely. That metal would have been squished out the sides.

northcoin · February 1, 2009 2:27PM

Is there a reported price for what the subject coin sold for at this year's FUN auction before it became submitted to Teletrade?

Barry · February 1, 2009 8:32PM

Thanks for the update. I missed it the first time around in December.

Barndog · February 5, 2009 8:14AM

I still don't understand how this coin retained its details during the "flattening process"

Wow - 5 1792 Half Dismes in the Same Auction

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