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What caused the 1922 Plain Lincoln cent? Should it be part of a Lincoln cent collection?

PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,339 ✭✭✭✭✭
I've read that the 1922 Plain cent was caused by grease filled dies and I've read that Die #2 was caused by the D mintmark being removed by overpolishing of the die? Can anyone shed any light?

Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

Comments

  • The following sounds pretty much like what you've read. The information I have is slightly abbreviated here...

    "In the case of die pairs 1 and 3, each was extremely worn when the mintmark began to disappear. Uncirculated specimens struck from these dies display an overall sharpness indicative of Very Good or Fine coins. Due to the interaction between the dies and the planchets, the faces of the dies were slowly disintegrating. Another factor that came into play was 'mint grease', a combination of lubricating oil, dirt, and metal filings...the mintmark areas on die pairs 1 and 3 were filled in by a blob of grease, which obliterated all traces of the D mintmark. After a few hundred coins were struck, the grease became impacted and likely fell out, resulting in coins with a faintly visible D. This process of progressive deterioration repeated itself several times. The mintmark faded in and out continuously until the dies became increasingly worn. In the past, determination of the status of 1922 cents struck from die pairs 1 and 3 has been a very subjective process..."

    "Die pair 2 evolved in a different manner. A pair of slightly worn dies producing normal 1922-D cents clashed together, damaging the reverse die. The obverse die, though worn and marred by the die clash, still was considered usable. Apparently, the reverse die was extensively damaged, perhaps even shattered, and was discarded. The obverse die was removed from the press, reworked and polished, and matched with a new reverse die. During reworking of the obverse die, sufficient metal was removed from the die face to erase all traces of the D mintmark. Consequently, every specimen struck from this second pair of dies is of the 'No D' variety. No subjective judgement is required in determining this variety as the diagnostics for the die are easily recognized"
  • mr1931Smr1931S Posts: 6,255 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Should it be part of a Lincoln cent collection? In my opinion, 1922 "No D" is not necessary for "completeness" of a set of Lincolns.

    Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein

  • WaterSportWaterSport Posts: 6,832 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No not required and neither is the 55 DDO.

    WS
    Proud recipient of the coveted PCGS Forum "You Suck" Award Thursday July 19, 2007 11:33 PM and December 30th, 2011 at 8:50 PM.
  • ziggy29ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭
    Not required, and in fact I wish it weren't included in most albums. IMO, the 1922 "Plain" cent would have little additional value if it weren't included in most coin albums and listed in the Red Book.

  • I agree with Ziggy ,,If they had struck philly coins that year the 22 No d would have next to no value beyond face ,, the simple fact that the die was excessively relapped and grease filled does not make a collectable error ,,or variety .

    The Lincoln series is full of other examples of the same thing that carry no premium value .



    Touch Not The Cat Bot A Glove !!

    image

    Always Looking for Raw Proof Lincoln Cents !!


  • << <i>I agree with Ziggy ,,If they had struck philly coins that year the 22 No d would have next to no value beyond face ,, the simple fact that the die was excessively relapped and grease filled does not make a collectable error ,,or variety .

    The Lincoln series is full of other examples of the same thing that carry no premium value . >>



    May I respectfully say you are missing the point IMH?

    (Don't answer that!)

    The '22 No D has the fascination of being discovered ONLY because no Philadelphia Lincolns were struck in 1922. This makes the No D a unique bearer of a fascinating story of detective work and mint mishaps, the very foundation of error and variety interest. And its story, well captured above, becomes more interesting the more one delves into it.

    A three legged buffalo on a nickel is hardly of import except it should have four legs: the mystery, mistique and accounting of why the leg is missing I'll bet has drawn more than a few people into our hobby.

    Does either coin belong in its series coin book? Heck if I know.

    But die-state errors like the No D are the stuff of life. Clashes, attemplts at repair resulting in more errors, detective work, mystery! Sure grabs me more than plugging holes in coin books. Rob
    Modern dollars are like children - before you know it they'll be all grown up.....

    Questions about Ikes? Go to The IKE GROUP WEB SITE
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,339 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sounds like it's included more due tradition than rational logic.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire



  • << <i>Sounds like it's included more due tradition than rational logic. >>



    Perry, I'm still a relative newcomer to coins, but there isn't much in our hobby driven by rationality or logic.

    An alien would probably die from laughter if he came across this board....

    Certainly decisions whether to include this or that Design Variety, variety or die state in a series is rarely logical except that money and influence are often determinant.

    To the extent that "popular demand" influences such decisions, the key is the name and the story of a given candidate.

    Catchy name? Neat story? Much better odds than a catalog number without a story even though the latter may have greater numismatic significance. Rob
    Modern dollars are like children - before you know it they'll be all grown up.....

    Questions about Ikes? Go to The IKE GROUP WEB SITE
  • i for one find them very interesting, in others sets. i will never buy into the hype. nor will i with the 3 legger. i do like them and think they deserve a place in our hobby. but i wont have those in my sets.

    i see the history and mystique behind these coins, but not at the prices they bring. ill save my money for the nice 14-D's and other ones i really like.


    to each his own, i hope i dont sound like im knocking these coins, thats not my intent here, just my thoughts.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,339 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Sounds like it's included more due tradition than rational logic. >>



    Perry, I'm still a relative newcomer to coins, but there isn't much in our hobby driven by rationality or logic. >>



    Good point!





    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • droopyddroopyd Posts: 5,381 ✭✭✭
    Question for those old enough to remember (or who research/collect old "penny boards") --

    When did the 1922 "plain" start getting its own hole to fill? My understanding is that they weren't even recognized as a variety for some years later.
    Me at the Springfield coin show:
    image
    60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
  • GrumpyEdGrumpyEd Posts: 4,749 ✭✭✭
    I think the 22-P should not be in the folders because it's a die state.

    It's still a neat coin.

    image

    Ed


  • << <i>

    << <i>I agree with Ziggy ,,If they had struck philly coins that year the 22 No d would have next to no value beyond face ,, the simple fact that the die was excessively relapped and grease filled does not make a collectable error ,,or variety .

    The Lincoln series is full of other examples of the same thing that carry no premium value . >>



    May I respectfully say you are missing the point IMH?

    (Don't answer that!)

    The '22 No D has the fascination of being discovered ONLY because no Philadelphia Lincolns were struck in 1922. This makes the No D a unique bearer of a fascinating story of detective work and mint mishaps, the very foundation of error and variety interest. And its story, well captured above, becomes more interesting the more one delves into it.

    A three legged buffalo on a nickel is hardly of import except it should have four legs: the mystery, mistique and accounting of why the leg is missing I'll bet has drawn more than a few people into our hobby.

    Does either coin belong in its series coin book? Heck if I know.

    But die-state errors like the No D are the stuff of life. Clashes, attemplts at repair resulting in more errors, detective work, mystery! Sure grabs me more than plugging holes in coin books. Rob >>





    Ok I won't !!

    image


    Who will give me $800.00 for this coin ??

    Maybe someone who gets grabbed by this stuff ?? I would be willing to bet there are not more than one or two of these in the whole of the 40-S mintage.

    Touch Not The Cat Bot A Glove !!

    image

    Always Looking for Raw Proof Lincoln Cents !!
  • Very interesting observation .
    The OP second sentence in the title can be extended to other series ,
    as mentioned in other replies . Album makers have omitted certain varieties ,
    have added new openings or kept the pages as is .
    Should "it" be part of a XXXXXX XXXXXX collection?
    What would be the reason for the changes?
    Recently , a collector finished a barber dime album .
    There is no 1894 S opening . Is the set complete?
    New Dansco albums for indian head cents , have two
    openings for the 1886 type 1 and type 2 . Old ones
    do not . Same goes for the buffalo nickel , which now
    has the 1916/16 , 1918D/7 and 1937 3 Leg .
    I myself have a complete set of liberty nickels.
    Or do I ? Suppose I win Ten million in the lottery .
    But of course! I buy the 1913 Liberty Nickel
    There is a type set album available . Why not a
    Variety album?
    Home of quality widgets
  • I equate the 1922 plain cent with a 37-D 3 legged buffalo nickel whether it be die filled, die filed, to be an oddity of sorts and really do not desire owning either one. If I found one of them though that would be another story. image
    A thing of beauty is a joy for ever

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