Cleaned pre 1933 gold coins
skeeter
Posts: 177
I am kinda new at this and need to ask an expert......When looking to buy a raw coin, how do you tell if it has been cleaned. I have seen some in slabs that look good but labeled as cleaned. I would like to buy a few but dont want to pay market price, send them to be graded, then have them turn out to be cleaned.
0
Comments
pcgs vf35 liberty half eagle. 1/4 ounce of gold. minted in new orleans in 1845. no motto. the dealer who sold this to me and I both agree
it was cleaned or wiped long ago. not badly but to say otherwise is
denying reality. it still has quite a bit of value though due to it being
scarce. it is simply not up for sale very often.
from these pics one might think it is not cleaned tho. here is another
pic showing what i mean.
notice the lines running all in one direction on the reverse. these
are called hairlines and are the result of a wiping action on the coin.
notice the patches of field area that do not have the lines. those
are the more original surfaces and if the coin was not wiped it would
appear like that over the whole coin's fields.
the obverse is much more acceptable and is the money shot, if you
know what i mean ;o)
turn the coin slightly and the lines disappear!
this coin would be considered lightly cleaned. due to it being scarce
pcgs has deemed it worthy of "net grading" but hold on a sec... i
thought you said pcgs does not grade cleaned coins! well they do
if the coin is scarce and only lightly cleaned. so the net grade of vf35
makes sense. if not cleaned this coin could have graded 40 or maybe
even 45!
this is a very complicated topic for a beginner to understand. i hope
others here will demonstrate an example for you.
you need to learn the basics and you cannot count on a tpg to save
you. you need to learn how to grade and how to detect the different
types of cleaning/wiping/dipping/boinking of coins before buying.
i bought this coin because i could afford it and it has ok eye appeal,
to me. others may think differently! if the coin was not cleaned and
graded 40-45 i could not afford it!! it would cost more then a 1000
dollars.
if you have any questions about half eagles feel free to ask.
hairlines are easy to detect once you know how to rotate the coin
to look for them..
but polishing is learned by comparing a good coin next to a bad one.
the whole coin is buffed up to a shiny sheen and the surfaces are
worn down.
gosh, there is so many ways to ruin a coin.
Maybe down the road a few years the spread betweent the two will narrow to 0% but for now, it's cheap insurance, and the price of the plastic is not part of the transaction.
roadrunner
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Sounds like finding a coin for $700 for example and PCGS priced at $1500....sending it in for grading....getting it back and selling for $1500 is harder than I originally thought!! >>
Do not take the PCGS price guide as gospel!
In some cases they are darn close, in many others they are way inflated and yet again in some areas, they are actually under priced.
Figure the more common the coin, the more inflated the price guide will be and adjust accordingly. Remember, that's only a general rule of thumb.
Get yourself a Greysheet. A current set can be cheaply found on eBay. Greysheet is a longtime seller there, easy to do a search and find them. It's good insurance at a very reasonable price.
Study past sales of same coins across the internet and you'll get the feel for it.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
<< <i>Sounds like finding a coin for $700 for example and PCGS priced at $1500....sending it in for grading....getting it back and selling for $1500 is harder than I originally thought!! >>
There are a lot of people that know a lot about coins. In some cases, with luck, a professional can buy a coin and make a fairly large quick profit. But it ain't easy, even for a pro. A person with little experience shouldn't try. Ask yourself "who knows the value of this coin better, me or the seller ?" And if it isn't in an NGC or PCGS holder how come ?
Thanks again
Bruce
<< <i>
<< <i>Sounds like finding a coin for $700 for example and PCGS priced at $1500....sending it in for grading....getting it back and selling for $1500 is harder than I originally thought!! >>
There are a lot of people that know a lot about coins. In some cases, with luck, a professional can buy a coin and make a fairly large quick profit. But it ain't easy, even for a pro. A person with little experience shouldn't try. Ask yourself "who knows the value of this coin better, me or the seller ?" And if it isn't in an NGC or PCGS holder how come ? >>
No, it's not easy. For me, the best profits I've made have generally been buying batches of melt silver. You'd be amazed at what turns up.
I've found an 89CC Morgan, Bust halves, nearly all the Morgan CC dates in various states as well as a 93S. Found a 16D and a pair of 42/41mercurys, dozens of '32 Washington quarters, some in mint state. I've even picked up a couple '21 Peace dollars. One of them I submitted and it came back from PCGS at MS64. When you're buying at melt prices, it's hard to go wrong. Of course this has taken place over an extended period of 8 years or so and searching through hundreds of thousands of coins.
No, flipping ain't easy.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
<< <i>Interesting thread for someone not used to looking at old gold. I guess that my question would be - in addition to the wiped type of cleaning on a gold coin, do you see any types of dipped circ gold, and what does it look like? >>
Yes, you see it all the time. It's easy to spot. If you see a completely clean common-date coin that is yellow-yellow-yellow, it has almost certainly been dipped and stripped. Circulated gold should have deep yellow color like the obverse of the 1845-O half eagle pictured above.
-Randy Newman
Darn straight. If it were easy, everyone on this forum would be boasting about their weekly $800 rips! The only way it is sort of easy is having a local shop that doesn't grade MS/PF coins very well.
If you have ready access to such a shop where you can cherry the dealer's undergraded buys (or his undergraded TPG returns) then you can profit fairly well. One of my local shops undergrades by several MS points (sometimes they're off by 4-5 points). But this all assumes you know how to grade with 60-80% accuracy to start with. And that doesn't seem to be the case here. If you trade in coins every day, you might come up to speed in a year or so. Do it casually, and it will take years. Your loses will far outnumber your winners for quite some time. Be prepared to buy fakes as well.
roadrunner