Ripped off by someone at the Post Office - or - Scammed by Ebay Seller

rooksmith

I recently bought 5 Franklin's on Ebay -

5 Franklins for $59 + shipping



http://photobucket.com/albums/l10/rooksmith/?action=view&current=Picture002.jpgLink




And this is what I got in the mail...



http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l10/rooksmith/Picture002.jpg

WTCG

Judging by the pictures provided it does not appear that the mailing box has been tampered with or damaged. It looks like the package was packed and sealed without the coins never being placed inside.

I use those boxes to ship coins all the time and without applying shipping tape the boxes do not seal very well.

rooksmith

I dont know - I want to trust the seller since I bought a few from him before. I thinks its a post office inside job. Thing is : I have a secure mailbox and I know and trust my carrier. So this has to be somewhere in between.

Lessons learned.

1. Dont buy anything on Ebay even from a 99.9% "positive feedback dealer" without insurance!!!

Tyler1924S

That is Priority, right? A flat rate, so we have no idea what it weighed when shipped (I know it says Priority, but sometimes the box is wrapped & shipped at different rate). Did you have his $1.65 insurance?

zzzz

A little more info please!

Did you contact seller?
What did he/she say?
Was it sent Signature Confirmation?
Delivery Confirmation?
No Confirmation?
How did you pay for it?
Insurance?
No Insurance?

Could just be an honest mistake ...

Just not enough information here to make judgemsnt right now ...





After reading the auction:


<< <i>Insurance is $1.65 and is recommended. Seller assumes no responsibility for lost items that are uninsured. >>



With over 7,000 positives (3 negatives) I highly doubt anything was intentional. Could be the coins just weren't placed in mailer before mailing.
If insurance wasn't taken ... Why?

rooksmith

Winning bidder pays $5.95 postage for first auction and $1.00 for each additional win within 24 hours. Insurance is $1.65 and is recommended. Seller assumes no responsibility for lost items that are uninsured.

drwstr123

It is Priority but too small for flat rate. The box was not meant to open that way. It's to open by pulling the white cord on the left side. Looks like improper/faulty packing. Many items are machine-sorted and some are damaged by them. Mike

Tyler1924S

Personally, I tape the edges of the box. Also, the one seal I see does not appear to have been used. Obviously, no tape on that box makes it very easy to tamper.

rooksmith

Yes I did contact him..

Seller is a true blue Mom and Pop eBayer who deals in Heirloom Tomato seeds as well

he says :

"Dear rooksmith,

Hi, I did not send you a candy tin. I sent you a package with five franklins. Hank"

Note: I have bought things from this guy in the past and found him to be totally honest... and had some coins at reasonable prices..

Again - it could be anyone in between. My postal carrier and I are like brothers after 17 years. So I have to think its one of those postal subcontactors..... or something.

Still I'm bummed out, but not as much as I was when I looked at my 401k last month.

rooksmith

regretably - no insurance. I usually get it if its over $20 or so.

But there was delivery confirmation .

Sealed in clear plastic tape...

Tyler1924S

<< <i>Hi, I did not send you a candy tin. I sent you a package with five franklins. Hank" >>



That clears the part up about the tin. Guess the thief shoves that in there to replace what he/she took, so box is not empty. Sure it's not the first time, probably buys those tins in bulk.

edited to add: I also seriously doubt it would be your carrier. If too much of this happens on one route, Postal Service sets up a sting. They caught one stealing envelopes with gift cards and cash. They put tracking devices in them and found them in his personal vehicle.

droopyd

<< <i>Seller is a true blue Mom and Pop eBayer who deals in Heirloom Tomato seeds as well >>



If it's blueribbontomatoes, i've done business with them and they are a-ok folks.

TrustNo1

can you verify that its even the same box and label he shipped to you in?...one way to do it is to replace it all and shows no sign of tampering

rooksmith

Yes it is them, and they are a-ok... I cant fault them except that the box was basically unsealed except for that one piece of tape clear, which is a bit strange... IT would indicate it was not re-opened and re-sealed.

.:

droopyd

The priority box i got from them recently was sealed quite well with lots and lots of tape.

TrustNo1

I'm betting the thief replaced the box with a new one

quarterguy

this is the time of the year that some postal workers help themselves to "gifts"

Christmas cards are too tempting to some (a lot of cash in them cards)

FLBuffaloHunter

If you paid by PayPal, and the seller won't refund your money, open an item not received dispute. No matter what the seller states in his auction, he is responible for you to receive the item(s) as ordered weather you paid for the insurance or not. Insurance covers the seller not the buyer.

leothelyon

Lessons learned. 1. Dont buy anything on Ebay even from a 99.9% "positive feedback dealer" without insurance!!!
"Dear rooksmith, Hi, I did not send you a candy tin. I sent you a package with five franklins. Hank" Note: I have bought things from this guy in the past and found him to be totally honest... and had some coins at reasonable prices..


<< <i>If you paid by PayPal, and the seller won't refund your money, open an item not received dispute. No matter what the seller states in his auction, he is responible for you to receive the item(s) as ordered weather you paid for the insurance or not. Insurance covers the seller not the buyer. >>



Am I missing something here?


Leo

Broadstruck

What is the dohicky you got in the mail?

nycounsel

I just had a similar experience with a much more expensive purchase. I won an ebay auction for a 2006 w uncirculated $100 platinum coin.

ebay auction

As you can see, the winning bid was a few hundred less than it should have brought.

I paid by paypal and selected the optional insurance.

A day or two later, the seller contacted me and refunded me part of the S&I cost, saying I'd paid too much. That was nice, and it made him seem like an honest sort.

A week later I received a priority box containing only styrofoam peanuts. The box was taped on the self-sealed side, but not on the flaps.

I contacted the seller, and he insisted that the coin was in the box when he shipped it.

He also said that he had taped the flap himself (removing the idea that the package was opened and taped shut while in transit.

He immediately refunded my payment, and asked that I ship the opened package back to him.

I didn't do that right away - not anxious to incur additional shipping costs, especially if his request to return the empty box for insurance claim was only to complete the illusion of a legitimate sale gone bad.

The seller followed up earlier this week to ask if I had shipped the box back yet.

To me, that was a further indication that he might be telling the truth.

I bit the bullet and spent another $10 to return the empty box to him.

Given his feedback, and the chain of events, maybe it really WAS stolen in transit.

Be careful with those priority boxes- tape all edges. For high dollar items, use registered, insured mail (I think that requires additional checks along the way).

Postal theft can happen. I don't know if it was to blame here, and there's probably no way to tell.

All I know is that it really sucks to open a box expecting your purchase and finding nothing.

rooksmith

The thing that was in the box was a metal Belgian Chocolate tin. The thief has good taste in chocolate.





Check out the box -- it was never sealed except for a piece of clear packing tape on the outside.







EBay Sellers -- Please Seal you packages in a way that shows no tampering. In my case, the only thing that was holding the box together was a single piece of clear plastic packing tape (not the priority mail printed type either). Basically thats like not sealing it..

53BKid

I lost out on a PCGS bi-metal Library. I had a cell # through Pay Pal and tried contacting him in Columbus Ohio. When I was able to get through the seller literally laughed at me, telling me he did this to others as well and was skipping town to go to Las Vegas! Pay Pal covered the extent of the loss up to his credit card limit, but I was out the rest. 2 years later it still bothers me.

Had you considered discussing this with your local post master? Sometimes they'll start investigations, other times they already have investigations going on. If it's a postal worker who did this, it's not likely to be the only time he or she's done it.

You could also file a complaint with the police.

Wishing you good luck - sorry to hear of your troubles.

Silverstate

The bottomline is this:

Dispute with PAYPAL as not recieved as mentioned by others.

You will win unless the Seller had a "Signature Confirmation" - This is the ONLY way the seller can combat you period.

Delivery confirmation means somebody got it, not necessarily you.

...TRY it, you will win.

This is how many scam sellers. Without signature confirmation, a claim of non reciept will win and they keep the stuff too.

sinin1

postmaster told me a few years ago that they use some contract carriers and more thefts occur in transit with them


what did the address label look like?

was it a PAYPAL sheet taped to box?


I wonder if someone along the line cuts these out and tapes the page on their box (with choclate tins)?


I now use the label that does not have postage listed

the same postmaster said - small box with insurance label with very high postage screams steal me to thieves

Broadstruck

metal Belgian Chocolate tin.

NO Chocolate... NO Franklins!

Griv

I've been lucky and have not had any packages stolen. I did have the PO lose one for a month or so but it finally arrived. I always insure my outgoing packages and do not give the option of not. I always use delivery confirmation but am going to start signature confirmation on packages over $100. I have had a couple of buyers try to stiff me but I managed to get most of it back. I do recommend sealing your boxes with tape but I also put a label under the tape so if someone cuts the tape they mess up the sticker. It's truly sad that some people simply want to steal from others and simply have no conscience.

LALASD4

Take it to the Postmaster and have them check for figerprints.

Bochiman

1) How were the other items he sent you, previously, packaged?
2) WHere is the label? Does it look like his writing or did he print out a mailing slip? If a printed mailing slip, does it look "re-used"?
3) If printed by hand, have you sent him a picture and asked him if it is his handwriting?

19Lyds

Well, it seems to me that further communication with the seller is needed here.

A reply that he did not ship you a candy tin is fine but the question begs to be asked "Did he sell a candy tin to anybody and was there possibly a mixup on the sellers end?"

As for the photo's of the PM box, it looks like the box was sealed as the protective cover is missing from the flap. Perhaps the adhesive on the box flap may not have been good. Did it appear as if it had been opened? Was the cardboard backing torn?

I hope this works out for you but my advice is to thoroughly discuss this with your seller.

ASUtodd

If you haven't tossed the tin or fingered it too much, then call the local police.... Have them take a report on your stolen items or have them do it as a fraud. They should take the tin, fingerprint it, and then they can scan the prints in for their state leo agency to run against prints currently in their system. That's how I would handle it here...
Todd

fishcooker

A $59 fraud investigation? Good Luck.

rooksmith

I think I lose again....


The response I got from the seller (who wont call me on the phone) is: "I am disappointed that you suggest there were no coins in the box. My feedback tells the story. I have sold coins in the four figures thru the mail without problem. Please buy insurance next time. Hank"

I have to believe the guy. But the truth is out there, and I KNOW that either there was a mistake in packaging (as in not enough tape!!) AND there DEFINITELY was a theft in delivery between his place and mine. IF anything, he blames me for not getting insurance. I feel he has some responsibility (as my mail carrier says) " The package was barely sealed at all - if he did seal it himself, he's a liar, if he didnt, hes guilty of not sealing the package properly.".

As for myself, I'm starting to put it behind me and move on. I'm still mad about it. Mad at myself for not getting the insurance. And mad at him for not doing a good job of packaging. But he's the winner since I paid him in advance.

His feedback is great. And hes an ex-law enforcement guy, or so he claims. It's just my word against his. If it were me, as a seller I would at least offer some sort future discount, but this isnt the case. And -- honestly, this is less money than I gave to the local Humane Society. I just feel ripped off that all.

Why would someone in the post office open a box from "blue ribbon tomatoes"? surely not to get some heirloom tomato seeds?? Its either an inside job, a theft by someone at his local post office, or a delivery person in between if you asked me.

Theres a strong lesson learned here :GET THE INSURANCE, and TRUST NOONE. Sad to say, "In God We Trust" means nothing to some people.

YaHa

You are ship out of luck, you got had, $59 is not much money, just use this mishap as a educational lesson and move on. Hell I just lost $220 at the supermarket tonight, came home and asked myself and wife, what in the hell did we buy for $220. So I want you to trust no one, no one. Happy Christmas

grote15

You can file a claim through Paypal and see where it goes. Signature confirmation, though, is only required for seller's protection on items over $250.

Fjord

The insurance is for his protection, not yours. Maybe YOU don't want to stick him with the bill, but that is your admittedly understandable choice.

My advice is to stop second-guessing yourself and the seller. Don't think that you really know this person and what's going on. It doesn't matter if the fellow has 100% feedback and is the most famous law enforcement officer in the entire world. You lived up to your end of a binding contract to receive an item that did not arrive. The seller is confused (or is trying to confuse you) into thinking that insurance is your responsibility.

If you paid via paypal, you can get your money back if you want it. you might get a negative, but an understandable and explainable one. Practice typing "Sorry, I didn't receive the item i paid for, I don't see why that's my fault, but I am sorry you're stuck" as a response.

ArizonaJack

You paid for item. You expect to receive item. You did not receive item. You file Paypal not reveived claim. You get money back.
Simple. Insurance is for sellers, not buyers, do not fall for the " you did not buy insurance" SCAM. Seller chose to ship without insurance.

Insurance is for sellers, forcing buyers to BELIEVE they are responsible for insurance is false, maybe not intentionally, but false.

Barry

It doesn't matter if you bought insurance. If the seller has thousands of FBs, he's a merchant. The law says HE is responsible for insuring delivery. If he leaves the choice to pay for insurance up to you, that's his error.

BigNorange

I have two questions about the issue. You should weight the package and check against the postage it will list what it weighed when sent(wasn't shipped flat rate box) Second how long did it take to arrive because packages damaged in mail get sent to mail recovery centers around the country. They try to match up packages with contents by weight so because your box had an address for tomatoes the loose coins didn't make sence. Call the 800 number file a claim and if your lucky they will find them.

rooksmith

Thanks for all the advise, guys... I've more or less decided in the spirit of Christmas to forgive and forget. But I do want to talk to the guy on the phone and hear his side of the story. If he doesnt cooperate, I may put in a dispute claim via PayPal as someone suggested. In the mean time, I will file a report with the Postmaster and ask for an investigation, because its the right thing to do.

If the dealer is honest, as I assume he is, and there is a thief working on his end, unbeknowst to him -- this is going to happen again. Maybe the thief will get caught.

By the way, whoever made the suggestion of a packing "seal" may be on to something!! The whole history of packing "seals" which are basically dies for Wax seals is interesting. But the concept of a tamper proof package is a good one. Printed plastic tape would do the trick. I dont know where you can get it made, but the tape seal would prove who last sealed the package. Nice idea...

I suppose the seller could have required the insurance, but it really should be optional. The risks, which I wasnt really aware of until now, are that there are a few bad apples out there. I usually buy the insurance unless its $10 or less purchase... Some dealers jack up the shipping costs to make more profit I wouldnt mind this practice if they included the insurance. Shipping valuables without insurance is like going to the beach and asking strangers to hold your wallet for a few hours while you go for a swim..

New Years resolution:

Stop buying on Ebay, unless the seller has:

1) has a sterling reputation (which he does)
2) has a good return policy
3) has reasonable shipping
4) has insurance AND signature confirnation.
5) good products at reasonable prices

Although this flies in the face of my preference for small-time personal mom and pop type cottage industries, we're living in times when security is more important than price.

Nothing is better than a good honest LOCAL coin dealer who appreciates your business.


~~~~End of story !! ~~~~~

By the way MERRY CHRISTMAS to all of you!!!