$27,000.00+ For A PCGS-PR66 Walker??!!

wondercoin · January 17, 2002 1:19AM

I was talking to a buddy of mine yesterday and he told me he was the underbidder on the 1936 Proof Walker in PCGS-PR66 where his bid of nearly $27,000 WASN'T ENOUGH TO WIN THE COIN!! Blue Sheet is around $4000 and around $10,000 for PR67!!! We also heard on another thread that R&I "stretched" to go around $20,000 for a PR67 example (near 2x bid) of this Walker!! When these coins were "out of favor" around 3 years ago, I bought a PR66 gorgeous example of this 1936 Walker for less than $3,000 (which I put aside for a "rainy day")!!

Are we in the beginning of an incredible "bull market" for 20th Century highly collectible coins (this 1936 coin actually fits into my definition of a "modern" coin (or "classic modern" as some put it) or is this the "tulip" thing all over again?

Wondercoin.

tradedollarnut · January 17, 2002 1:46AM

In my opinion, you are witnessing the effect of an incredibly weak Rarities sale, nothing more. Not too much in the sale was fresh or exciting, so when something like the 1936 walker came up, the coin doctors went wild. I overheard another dealer saying the coin had a scratch that was puttied on it. Sour grapes or fact, I do not know.

Typetone · January 17, 2002 2:12AM

I'm going to claim some expertise in proof Walkers having also bought a nice group of them when they were out of favor (although alas not a 36). My view is that a brilliant PR67 is at least a $15,000 coin, with $20,000 being reasonable given the renewed interest in these pieces. Have seen other recent trades at that level.

However, I have to question the wisdom of the price paid on the 66. It was nicely toned, but also looked like it had a print on both sides. Even in this market, these pieces have been available in the $5,000 - $6,000 range. Refuse to believe that the typical price went up four fold in so short a time. While the market is what it is, I would guess the buyer could purchase another fine example much cheaper. For example, where would you sell your piece right now Mitch.

Greg

pontiacinf · January 17, 2002 2:14AM

the hype is fading fast...extremely fast in the northeast corridor here.

I wouldnt wanna be the clown left holding these high priced coins when the smoke clears

just look...alot has lost its flavor Already, as most here will be quick to point out. Hype doesnt build a good strong collection...it just makes dealers rich and collectors a heck of alot lighter.

dragon · January 17, 2002 2:59AM

Lets examine the reasons as to why someone would bid a seemingly absurd amount for coins such as this Walker or that Cleveland or that 53-S Franklin or any other recent examples of coins selling for 'silly' money at auction.

1) The coin was bid on by a dealer(s) who already had a client for the piece and was bidding on their behalf.

2) The coin was bid on by a dealer(s) or collector(s) who thought the coin was severely undergraded and thus worthy of a very high bid commensurate to a much higher graded coin.

3) The coin was bid on by a collector(s) who just wanted THAT particular piece for reason due to spectacular toning or whatever, and price was of no object whatsoever in obtaining it.

4) These 'silly' prices really do not exist and are a complete scam and are bid up by the consignor and his prearranged 'associates' to make others believe the coin is something really special, thus planting the seed for a rediculously high resale price after the auction to a collector, or to facilitate the sale of similarly graded pieces using the 'price realized' of the auction coin to set a precedent.

5) Again, these 'silly' prices do not exist and are bid up by 'representatives or agents' of various auction houses to garner positive publicity or the appearance of 'stratospheric' prices realized in their sales.

Whatever the reason(s), these pie in the sky prices for a certain coin here and there do NOT set any type of trend IMO and should be viewed as both suspect and not a reliable guide for pricing similar coins in the same grade, or that a certain series is 'hot' right now, or that the actual coin sold at auction is actually a good value or worth anywhere near what it sold for.

Dragon

edited for typos

MoneyLA · January 17, 2002 3:16AM

I recently discussed with David Hall his impression of auction prices and the PCGS price guide. David told me that auction prices are not considered when compiling the price guide because auction prices are not necessarily truly reflective of the market.

Indeed, we know that there can be a bidders' war that can drive prices through the roof. On the other hand, there can also be a bidders' strike that can keep prices artificially low.

With that said, let me suggest that auction prices are, in fact, the "real" state of the market. Auction prices will influence other market prices. It would not surprise me now to see all prices move to "catch up" to the new auction prices -- and if not in the next few weeks than in the next few months.

Isn't this the case in real estate and in stocks-- when one sale drives the overall market?

Surely, the auction results for the 1936 proof Walker in 66 will influence other 1936 proofs as well as the rest of the proof Walker series. You can't argue with real money being paid, even if appears to you to be "nuts."

This auction result is making me take a second look at the value of my 1936 pr66 Washington.

cheers, alan mendelson

pmh1nic · January 17, 2002 3:17AM

I'm not so sure it's a matter of wisdom rather than want coupled with enough disposable income to relegate the $15,000, $20,000 or $30,000 as insignificant in securing the desired coin. I think there is a level at which an extra dollar or hundred dollars or thousand dollars or ten-thousand dollars is insignificant with respect to winning the bidding war on the coin you're after. This is all relative to income and your sense of sensibility regarding the value of the coin you're bidding on. At my income level bidding an extra thousand dollars is a major consideration whereas for someone making ten times my income might not blink an eye at bidding another thousand dollars.

I've stop trying to find the logic in what someone else will bid on a coin. I can give you the reasons why I will/won't go there but a lot of the reasons stem from my own subjective sense of value (of course all highly logically and reasonable

) and the dollars available to me to purchase it.

As far as long or short term market cycles are concerned I'm not sure where we're at and being a longer term collector I'm not really that concerned about what's going to happen over the next six months or six years. I'll buy what I want and can reasonably afford while enjoying the journey.

braddick · January 17, 2002 3:21AM

Dragon, maybe some of what you wrote is happening some of the time- but the Market is too large to be altered for long by your speculations.

No, I think the Modern coin market is in on a serious upswing. There are too many indications pointing in that direction.
Here are some personal observations:

1- Ikes. Everytime I turn around Ikes are jumping up in price. Silver "S" mints in MS68- a rather common priced coin at $100.00 (other than the 71-S and the 76-S) are now easily $200.00 with some fetching more than that. And Clad Ikes in MS66? Hugh gains.

2- I recently began looking for a PCGS MS68 1976-S Kennedy. Not a tough Pop coin really. Three times now in the last two four weeks I've been knocked to the sidelines by fierce bidding. I was even 'snipped' on a BIN for $450.00! And even at these higher prices it isn't like every Dealer/collector who owns these are letting go.

3- Nicely toned Moderns (1932 to date). I make a side hobby out of following these type of coins. Coins in general may be a hobby, but these wonders are a passion. I've only been able to aquire ONE nicely toned coin in the last three weeks! Even then, it is an ICG MS67 ASE. I try to avoid ICG- and this one went for over $100.00.
Gone are the days of sneeking in and finding these coins cheap.

There are other examples, but you get my point. Each of the above is a real world incident that took place just within the last few weeks.
Coins are heating up- alway the nice ones, but the Moderns are exploding.

coingame2000 · January 17, 2002 3:45AM

Mitch,

When "I" compare the "modern" coin market to "tulip bulb mania" I am generally referring to supergrade (perfectomania-type) post-1964 coins. FYI...

Mike

Flash · January 17, 2002 4:15AM

Auction prices could be a reliable indicator of current value if the numbers treated properly. If PCGS were to accumulate all prices realized at auction and then eliminate the extremely highs and the extremely lows and average the rest, they would come up with a value that would be reasonable.

dbldie55 · January 17, 2002 5:22AM

I was just informed that the 1936 Walker in question is now in a PR67 holder, and the buyer of the coin thought it was a 68. Perhaps this explains the high bid, and not all the other things being said?

wondercoin · January 17, 2002 5:25AM

Great insightful responses

If the coin in question had already been "puttied" in the PCGS-PR66 holder, as suggested, then the price paid was even that much more bizarre!!

I don't see any reason to compare the "tulip bulb" hysteria to ONLY super high end coins? But, even so, 1936 Walkers in PR66 and PR67 are about as "high end" as they come-right?

Best I can tell, this $27K Walker REALLY DID SELL! Dragon's comments regarding a possible "staged" sale, while relevant to consider in the possibilities appears not to have been the case here. In fact, this coin made "front page" news on the PCGS website and, again, I spoke with the "sincere" underbidder. And, of course, the dealer that won the coin will likely be selling it at a profit-right? So, you can count on a $30,000+ final sale price somewhere along the line? This one sure makes R&I's 1957 Franklin in PCGS-PR69DCAM look like a "relatively" super buy-no? Even if this coin is in a PR67 holder now, sheet is still around $10,000

Wondercoin.

pmh1nic · January 17, 2002 5:33AM

Braddick

There is no denying that the prices on the coins you mentioned have been climbing. Now for the dealer that is buying and selling during a relatively short period of time while we're on the uphill side of the price curve that's great. The questions that should be on the minds of the cost conscience collector who plans to hold onto the coins for five, ten or twenty years are:

1. Are we nearing the peak of the market for these coins (ala 1989 in which case many of the coins never recovered to those price levels) or is there still plenty of room to climb?

2. Where is the point at which rising prices cause these coins to be priced out of their collector base?

3. All good things must come to and end, what goes up must come down (o.k. no more cliches

). How much are these prices fueled by the media attention currently being given to modern coins and how much price support will remain once the spotlight shifts to the next hot issue?

Moderns are the hot segment of the market right now. If you're looking to jump in and jump out quickly to turn a quick profit it may be a good time to be active in this market. For the long term collector the hot market could be the wrong time to get in unless of course you think the bull market is going to continue to be strong and last for an extended period of time.

Ronyahski · January 17, 2002 6:05AM

I bid a "crazy" $12,000 on this coin because I thought it was the most gorgeous toned proof 36-42 coin ever seen and was a lock 67. If it had putty, I missed it. Guess I wasn't near crazy enough.

coingame2000 · January 17, 2002 9:12AM

Mitch,

When I'm writting an article it doesn't matter if YOU believe there isn't any reason to compare supergrade coins exclusively to tulip bulb mania. The fact is that I am the author and there was reason enough for ME in regard to this particular subject. As far as I'm concerned the BU roll craze of the sixties, the penny bag craze of the early seventies and the "Wall Street jumps into the coin market" hype of 1989 all fall into the same category and can be compared to the tulip bulb mania of mid-17th Century Holland!

My response to you on this thread was simply to clarify once and for all (for YOUR benefit) my definition of the "modern" coin market as it pertained to the Consumer Alert that appears on my website. And no, I don't consider MS/PR66 or MS/PR67 to be supergrades, I reserve that moniker for MS/PR 68 or better coins.

Hopefully this response will clarify things for you.

Best Regards,

Mike De Falco

wondercoin · January 17, 2002 9:57AM

Mike: I believe some of the confusion here is you thinking that my reference to the "tulip" craze in the opening thread was a DIRECT reference to any article you have written. To the best of my knowledge, references to the "tulip" craze appear throughout the literature for possibly centuries!! I know I referred to it in my prior business many times back in the 1980's and 1990's. In no way did I believe it was directly linked to a discussion of a select area of numismatics, nor did I believe I was infringing upon an area of original thought (i.e. intellectual property) in expanding the concept to 1936 Proof Walkers.

Anyway, I'll try to keep references to the "tulip bulb" frenzy limited to MS68 and higher graded coins in the future

Can't wait to grab a drink with you in 2 weeks when we meet again!! Wondercoin.

DeepCoin · January 17, 2002 10:31AM

I would ask one thing about the proof Walkers. What are the populations for PF66 and PF67? I know there were a very small number of these coins in total, so making a new one in a high grade is probably a very rare event.

I guess for me the difference between the Walker and the Franklin is that the potential for another appearing in super grade for the Walker is more remote.

One other comment, it is not a big deal for a Walker collector with deep pockets to spend some serious cash on a coin. The MS prices on certain early coins are major dollars. So if you have an individual who is already accustomed to spending major dollars on his favority series, 20K for a PF67 of a rare coin doesnt seem like an unreasonable action to me.

That PF67 would look real nice next to an MS67 1917D (Rev). Can you say that about the Franklin? That is one reason I dont think this was a major deal. However, subsequent auctions for PF66 and PF67 Walkers will determine if this is truely a market price.

dbldie55 · January 17, 2002 10:49AM

This coin "is" in a PR67 holder now, it was a walk through at the FUN show! The owner feels it belongs in a 68 holder. If it has some nice toning, that would probably account for why it has a value greater than sight unseen wholesale. (Why Bluesheet is even brought up in these situations is beyond me) But the price was probably due to the fact the new owner feels it is a 68, currently pop 1. I doubt this coin was purchased for the same reason someone buys a $4,000 SBA. I really doubt that the price for this coin will have any relevance on the price of other PR66's, and certainly should not on coins from other series.

Ronyahski · January 17, 2002 11:08AM

Here are the pops for Walkers and Franklins in PCGS as of today:

Proof Walkers in 66/67 3615/1105
Proof Franklins in 66/67 about 17000/13000

The pop for the 36 Walker is 136/10.

Although the pops for the Franklins are obviously higher, you should compare the relative prices between the two. I'll leave that for Rick T. to chime in here, he has already done analysis with this. Curious as to what he thinks with recent price changes with the two series.

The comparison for populations of mint state coins just might shock you, here they are:

Mint State Walkers in 66/67/68 17428/1309/45
Mint State Franklins in 66/67/68 5292/88/0

The pops for FBL Franklins are less than half the total population. I'll state the obvious - High end Franklins are much more scarce than high end Walkers! It is still a fairly well kept secret - high end mint state Franklins are SCARCE! Relative price to rarity between the two is no contest - Franklins are a bargain (although I change my tune slightly when talking about pop 1 type coins or comparing either of these to classics.)

Regards
Daryl

MoneyLA · January 17, 2002 11:18AM

Thanks for the info on the pops for the Walkers. Once again Im amazed that Walkers have higher values and higher pops than proof Washingtons. But then, I guess that's because there are more collectors of proof Walkers than proof Washingtons. cheers, alan mendelson

DeepCoin · January 17, 2002 11:39AM

Daryl, you provides some very interesting information. However, it could be interpreted differently. It is a very difficult thing to compare grades between series.

If PCGS has never graded a Franklin in MS68, then I believe we have to compare the top end grade attainable in each series against each other. You cant get caught up in comparing an unobtainable grade against an obtainable one. There are more top grade Franklins (albeit with a different MS grade, than Walkers)

I would suggest that it is more reasonable to compare the MS68 Walker (pop 45) against the MS67 Franklin (pop 88) ... etc. Then you get an analysis that has far more Franklins in the top two attainable grades than does the Walker series.

That is the beauty of collecting, different views of the same thing.

wondercoin · January 17, 2002 11:43AM

Daryl: Don't forget (2) things though:

1. The Mint produced 20,000,000 more Walkers than Franklins in the first place, as it is a longer running series. Hence, more high pop Walkers naturally-right?

2. PCGS has already seen nearly 225,000 Walkers for grading. Yet, less than 60,000 Franklins have been submitted for grading so far. So, while there are twice as many higher grade Walkers, there have also been 4x as many submissions and there is also the factor of # of coins in the series/mintage to consider.

Wondercoin

Ronyahski · January 17, 2002 12:39PM

Deep Coin - That is the beauty, different views of the same thing. If you compare even the top two grades, Franklins are still much more scarce. I think the reason lies mainly in the distinct difference between the two coins. Becasue of the design of the coin, a small mark or two will take a Franklin very quickly out of a top grade, which is why there are no 68s. I would prefer to compare the two series generally between the the high end graded pieces, 65-66-67, and not just the highest graded pieces, to get a broader view of the price/rarity comparison. As I have posted elsewhere, when you get into the highest graded, pop 1 neighborhoods, prices for that real estate are in a league of their own.

WC - Your point 1 would be an arguement that would seem to support my point as to why Franklins are more scarce and comparitively undervalued. Your point 2 draws into question whether Franklins really are scarcer than Walkers, or whether time will allow the pop reports to adjust to more submissions for Franklins and change the comparision. I don't think it will, but to me, that is what makes the Franklins so intriguing.

What do I mean? I do not think you will see a plethora of submissions with Franklins. I think there has been attention paid to them for several years now, and a good percentage of the nicer coins have already been submitted. Sure, more are to come, but not nearly as much as some of the other more modern series. That would be a good differentiator in definition in referring to the Franklins as a quasi-modern series, and not a modern series, i.e, based on the number of available coins yet to be submitted.

Regards
Daryl

braddick · January 17, 2002 1:23PM

Daryl, I'll take your arguement a step further and state I think just about ALL of the nice (MS66- MS67) Franklins have been uncovered. I don't think they're will ever be a MS68- unless one of the already graded MS67's cross up.

I could be wrong, of course, but I suspect there are no Mint sets/ bags/ rolls left that have not been cherried and those that have not will not reveal any wonder coins.

dbldie55 · January 17, 2002 4:29PM

I am not sure how this discussion ever got to Franklins. Of course, Franklins are circulating Silver coins, which none of the super modern coins are. It takes more than just a grade to make a series, it takes collectors. While the Walker is often called the most beautiful Silver coin ever produced in this country, the Franklin (and Washington quarter for that matter) fall very close to the other end of this spectrum. This probably leads to the other reason prices are higher for this series.

I am sure those of you that collect purely for the number on a plastic holder have not figured this out yet. (No offense meant, but it seems pretty easy to conclude)

ultimatecameo · January 18, 2002 5:42AM

Daryl -

Glad you brought up the mint state Walker/Franklin comparison!

Regarding proof Franklins, I am primarily interested in the early strike CAM/DCAM coins, with the exception of the earliest issues. I like to think of the series as having two mintages for each date - the official mint total of all proofs struck, and the unpublished total of those struck with CAM/DCAM contrast.

There were over one million 1959 proof Franklins stuck. However, there were only a few thousand struck in cameo, and the number struck in DCAM are probably in the low triple digits. IF PCGS CONSISTENTLY MAINTAINS THEIR DCAM STANDARDS, the total number of 1959 proof Franklins ultimately grading DCAM should be well under 100 coins, in all grades.

ultimatecameo · January 18, 2002 5:44AM

Daryl -

Glad you brought up the mint state Walker/Franklin comparison!

Regarding proof Franklins, I am primarily interested in the early strike CAM/DCAM coins, with the exception of the earliest issues. I like to think of the series as having two mintages for each date - the official mint total of all proofs struck, and the unpublished total of those struck with CAM/DCAM contrast.

There were over one million 1959 proof Franklins stuck. However, there were only a few thousand struck in cameo, and the number struck in DCAM are probably in the low triple digits. IF PCGS CONSISTENTLY MAINTAINS THEIR DCAM STANDARDS, the total number of 1959 proof Franklins ultimately grading DCAM should be well under 100 coins, in all grades.

One last question - how do I delete a previous message so I don't have it repeated?

robbnsc · January 18, 2002 6:23AM

As I read all the postings about record prices on high-grade-modern coins, I find it interesting but: There are still RARE 19th century gold coins being sold at auction for less than bid! Some of these gold coins have a total certified population of maybe 35 coins with 5 of those being MS62 or above. You can buy many of these coins in MS65 for less money than a Proof Franklin half specimin with a certified population 100 times that of the classic issues.

I realize that high collector's interest drives some of these prices, but it feels/smells to me just like the Tech Stock shell game of 1999. Lots-of-money is not the same as smart-money. I am becoming more certain that I will stick with the quality/rarity, collecting basics and watch the circus; instead of paying the high price of admission.

ultimatecameo · January 18, 2002 6:31AM

Mitch -

The primary reason there are more Walkers graded is there are more Walkers that are worth grading. One has to go to a lot more work finding a decent mint state Franklin than mint state Walker. There have been original Walker rolls where most of the 20 coins graded either MS65, 66, and 67. Franklin rolls of that quality do not exist.

ultimatecameo · January 18, 2002 6:31AM

Mitch -

The primary reason there are more Walkers graded is there are more Walkers that are worth grading. One has to go to a lot more work finding a decent mint state Franklin than mint state Walker. There have been original Walker rolls where most of the 20 coins graded either MS65, 66, and 67. Franklin rolls of that quality do not exist.

Ronyahski · January 18, 2002 6:52AM

Rick - You're stuttering.

Daryl

ultimatecameo · January 18, 2002 6:57AM

Daryl
I tried three or four times to delete. *@!^#!? computers

braddick · January 18, 2002 7:05AM

Rick, it's good information. It's worth reading twice.

DeepCoin · January 18, 2002 11:22AM

Walkers are like Mercurys in one regard. They span the time from early in the century when mintages were low to the 40s when we were minting in the millions.

That is one reason I think the 20K for a proof is more in line. Wouldnt you like to find a roll of MS63 1919-D Walkers? I know that is an extreme comment, but serious complete high grade Walker collections have quite a number of coins worth more than 20K.

I am not denigrating the Franklin, but rather trying to look into the mindset of the buyer of the Walker.

ricardouno · January 19, 2002 9:34AM

Daryl,

That was a very interesting comparative analysis. I have been a Franklin Half collector for about 25 years. I searched for high grade FBL pieces (initially collectors wanted to see the "pass and stow" on the bell clearly) long before it became popular to do so. Yet, beyond the dates of 1955, 1956, 1957 and 1958 I found gem FBL's (meaning 66FBL or better by today's standards) very hard to find. Could you tell me what the present 66FBL PCGS population of the ENTIRE Franklin Half series is, NOT INCLUDING the dates of 1955, 1956, 1957 and 1958? I do not have a PCGS population report but I suspect his total will be very low. Thanks and good luck with your Franklins.

Ronyahski · January 19, 2002 11:03AM

Ricardouno - Your are correct with your suspicions. As of today, there are 2301 Franklins graded in 66FBL. From 1955 - 1958, there are 1565 coins in 66FBL, leaving 736 representing the entire remaining series! Take away the next 2 highest population dates, the 1948-P and 1952-P, and there are less than 500 of them for the rest of the series. There are only 41 coins graded in 67FBL for the entire series, most of them again 56 - 58. 67FBL coins are very rare indeed!

Just want to point out that although the 1955 is generally lumped together with the 56 - 58 as being the most common, their poplulation is 83, while the 56 -58 dates (56, 57, 57-D, 58, 58-D) are all in excess of 200. The 55 has a population lower than a few other dates (much tougher to find in FBL) and is a bit rarer than you would suspect.

Hope this helps!

Regards,
Daryl

ricardouno · January 19, 2002 11:25AM

Daryl,

Thanks so much for the information! I am surprised that the 1955-P 66FBL is so relatively low in total population. By the way, the top ranking Franklin PCGS Registry sets that I reviewed on this web-site look very impressive. I never was able to find a 1950-D, 52-D, or 54-D in 66FBL or a 53-S in that grade. I was very surprised to have heard that the 53-S even exists in 66FBL. Thanks again for all your help.

Ronyahski · January 19, 2002 11:57AM

Ricardouno - My pleasure. If you are presently looking for the Franklins you mentioned, I got a bunch and will talk with fellow collectors if interested. At one point I owned 3 of the 4 50-D in 66FBL you mentioned, have some dupes of the other dates you mentioned too (no, not the 53-S). PM me if you want to discuss.

Regards,
Daryl

ronrittenburg · January 20, 2002 12:22AM

This discussion on the 36 proof walker has caught my attention. I have a 38 PCGS PFCAM66. Should this coin end up in a registered set? There has only been one other CAM certified to date by PCGS. What kind of price would you expect for this? If $27000 was turned down for a 36 PF66, how can I judge what my coin might value at? My coin will be displayed at the ANA in Jacksonville in March.

CarlWohlforth · January 20, 2002 1:24AM

A CAM '38 Walker?? Sounds really nice. We just love to see scans of nice coins, hint, hint...

Sure does sound like it belongs in a registry set. I'd love to see it in my type set but am afraid to find out what it might cost.

oreville · January 20, 2002 2:29PM

Ok I believe I can help make some sense of all this...........

First of all I am NOT a new member...I have actually been on the old format chat room of collectorsuniverse.com going back to 1996!!

Secondly, regards to tradedollarnut who I see when we need to discuss high finance in another area of the internet..........:-) and yes....I am going to get that trade dollar you liked!!

First of all, I am a collector first and foremost... I have been collecting since 1960 when I was 7 years old. I stood on line at the Federal reserve Bank of new York in the mid 1960's with 100 silver certificates and got my 100 silver dollars. I had to play hookey from school to do it.

I collect type coins. Mostly mint state ones. Just a few proofs here and there. I always get a little ho-hum with proofs (except some of the ones Rick Tomaska sells...meaning some of his Deep Cams). I don't fool around. I have some of the 18th and 19th century PCGS graded coins and I guess since MS-68 is considered hyped coins then I guerss I have some of those too. LOL

But let us look at the 1945-P mercury dime in fb. An interesting study. A slower moving version of the 1936 walker proof and 1953-S FBL coins. Look at the record:

In 1997 such 1945-P 10c MS-67 FB could be obtained for $11,000 at full retail. Since 1997, the MS-67 price has skyrocketed to the $30,000 to $45,000 range although the PCGS price list does not reflect that. Now onto the MS-66 FB of the 1945-P 10c date. In 1997 such coin was running around $5,000 but has gone up to about $12,000 to $13,000 in the last month or so. The price rise has been quite steady during all four years. Now at the Heritage FUN Signature Auction the 1945-P dime in MS-66 from the Kritzman collection sold for $17,250 and I was an underbidder at $14,000. There was incredibly strong bidding for this dime. Right after the auction another MS-66 FB 1945P dime was found on the floor (nicer according to my sources) and it was going for even more money than the auction price (but only after the auction price was announced).

The same thing has happened with the 1045P in MS-65 FB prices up to $9000 plus at the previous Heritage auction. Even a MS-62 FB broadstruck 1945 went for $805 at Heritage FUN auction. These prices are just getting stronger and stronger.

What is my point? These 1945P dimes are ultra rare in FB especially in MS65 to MS67. Kritzman himself pointed that out nearly 30 years ago. The prices are now only beginning to reflect the market's true understanding of the rarity. Sometimes the market discovers the rarity all too fast and then it looks "suspicious" as in the 1936 proof walker and 1953-S franklin FBL or 1932-D MS-66 quarter but in other cases for comarison purposes, other coins like the 1945P FB dime whether SSMS-65 66 or 67 get to the same "exalted place" in their own time and in their own way. But the coins that becomes kings will get there regardless of the speed it takes to get there.

What we are seeing is the market discovery and then quick or reluctant acceptance of evolving new "kings" of a series or the century.

It has been happening over and over in numismatics and will continue to happen.

Just my own opinion.

Oreville

$27,000.00+ For A PCGS-PR66 Walker??!!

Comments