Be Honest: Questions Re: NHL Hockey ...

JackWESQ

Be honest now, who here checks the NHL boxsores on a nightly basis. I just checked them tonight for the first time all season. A few hockey stats/records that I know off the top of my head is that Gretzky holds the record for 92 goals in a season, 163 assists in a season and 215 points in a season. Now I realize that these are out of the world numbers from a bygone era, but now I see that Vincent Lecavalier is leading the NHL, being on pace for 53 goals and 70 points, totaling 123 points. Wow.

I never quite understood how I can enjoy the game so much in person (been to two (2) Stanley Cup Finals game), but would rather watch the Weather Channel than NHL hockey on T.V. So I guess my next question is who here follows the NHL and would consider themselves knowledgeable about hockey? I know I'm not. Or at least not about today's game.

/s/ JackWESQ

P.S. And just out of curiosity I did a search of "NHL" in the Sports Talk forum and saw that in 2007, there were all of six (6) threads, seven (7) threads in 2006 and seven (7) threads in 2005. At least there is consistency.

stevek

NHL hockey actually went out of business years ago. Those games on TV you see are all games previously played and the announcers call it as if the games were live, using different player's names depending on the area broadcast.

lawnmowerman

Hockey?

gosteelers

I think they need to get rid of most of the southern tier teams and make it an all northern sport like it used to be. Get more teams back in Canada.

Michigan

I don't think I could name more than three current NHL players off the top of my head.

bigfische

<< <i>I don't think I could name more than three current NHL players off the top of my head. >>




ditto

80sToyguy

As a Canadian we're inundated with it up here as it leads off all the major sports networks every night (we have 3, we don't have ESPN up here on regular cable).
I still think it's the best sport in the world as do most of my friends who were born and raised here. Although many of us are also big fans of the NBA, MLB and the NFL (and some even like the CFL).
I would say the biggest difference between Canada and the U.S.A sportwise is that most Americans care nothing about the NHL while most Canadians don't give a damn about college basketball or football (and most of us really can't believe Nascar has fans). It really comes down to what you're brought up on, Hockey Night in Canada on Saturday Nights up here still draws comparable numbers to Monday Night Football down in the States (per capita wise, not actual people as we are roughly 1/10th the size of the U.S).
I do agree though that the Golden Age of the NHL was the 1980's, although when you watch alot of Gretzky's goals they were a joke, those pucks just don't go in like they used to (and I'm certainly not knocking the Great One, he is still the greatest). The NHL has become a league of systems, the problem is if you played wide-open hockey like most of the teams back in the 80's played, the other 29 teams would expose you and you'd lose everynight by a large gap, therefore every team plays some form of the trap or the left-wing lock even after Bettman said that would change (believe me, it hasn't).
But if I were the Pres, I'd have 3 ten team divisions, 1 in Europe, 1 in Canada and 1 in the U.S. I still shake my head thinking about 2 teams in Florida and 3 in California. I agree at the very least the league needs to be scaled back but players in the NHL today are better than they ever have been in my opinion. Now everyone can skate and skate fast, everyone can shoot hard, everyone can move the puck, ALOT different from how it used to be.
Jay

BobaFett72

hockey is withering and dying. they should have more teams in Canada, they would probably make more money lol.

rube26105

all i remem ber are old guys back ion the good old days before sports were high priced bellhops inbetween beer ads and car comercials on tv- hull/orr/gretzky-i did 3 wooooooooo new ones
stinky.grumpy, and blotto the cosmic wanderer

Kilann

Hockey needs to get rid of those ridiculous fights that serve no purpose, eliminate the role of 'goons/enforcers' and make the game more fluid and more focused on the game and less on the fights and that nonsense.

Connecticoin

Gary Bettemen is slowing destroying the NHL. The sooner he gets replaced, the better.

Michigan

<< <i>Hockey needs to get rid of those ridiculous fights that serve no purpose, eliminate the role of 'goons/enforcers' and make the game more fluid and more focused on the game and less on the fights and that nonsense. >>




I think fighting is ingrained in the culture of the sport and impossible to stop.

The NHL has tried to make it a national rather than a regional sport by expanding into non traditional hockey venues but I
think that got out of hand. Something is very wrong when a team has to leave Canada but another team expands into such
hockey hotbeds as Phoenix?

Attendance is laging is such places as Detroit which has long supported the Redwings, I was channel flipping last night and watched a little bit of the game, the number of empty seats in the first 15 or so rows were embarassing. It has gotten so bad
in Detroit that the Wings recently hired a marketing director to try and turn things around.

Morgoth

I think the fighting is great the way it is now. Very few whole team fights like in the 70s. Fighting is way, way down but remember these guys have sticks and blades on their feet. What's safer letting them duke it out with their bare hands are letting bad feelings harbor until someone gets a stick to the head?

Kilann

So what if it's ingrained in the sport? Doesn't mean it's right. It would be easy for the NHL to sit everyone down, and say 'a fight breaks out, the participants are out for 25 games'. Fighting would end tomorrow...if I want to watch a fight I'll watch boxing. Fighting has no place in organized team sports like hockey.

And even with fighting, guys are getting sticks to the head! Corey Simon just got suspended 30 games for lifting his foot and stomping an opponent's foot! There's no place for this garbage in the NHL.

Michigan

So what if it's ingrained in the sport? Doesn't mean it's right.

I never said it was right, it just is what it is.


It would be easy for the NHL to sit everyone down, and say 'a fight breaks out, the participants are out for 25 games'. Fighting would end tomorrow...

I'll bet you it wouldn't.

euphoria18

<< <i>And even with fighting, guys are getting sticks to the head! Corey Simon just got suspended 30 games for lifting his foot and stomping an opponent's foot! There's no place for this garbage in the NHL. >>



It is Chris Simon. He got 30 games and it was not just for this one single incident.

People getting hit with sticks, cheapshots, ect are a result of the NHL trying to get rid of fighting, by having an instigator penalty. If you dont know what that is.. that should be reason enuff not to comment on it...lol.

markj111

I can not name a current hockey player, and do not know (or care) who won the Stanley Cup last year. I can name one division (Smythe). Olbermann is right-it is BORING.

perkdog

I dont watch the NHL or the NBA but every day I read the paper I always check the league leaders stats for both sports, I do make a point to see how that phenom kid Crosby? is doing, as well as how Lebron is doing as well.

yawie99

<< <i>Gary Bettemen is slowing destroying the NHL. The sooner he gets replaced, the better. >>



I think he's already wrecked the league. I'm slowly returning to the game thanks in large part to John Davidson's efforts to turn around the Blues, but I don't think I'll ever return to the level of enthusiasm I had for the NHL during the '80s and better part of the '90s.

Michigan

It is not good that their most marketable player is on a small market team and is basically ignored by the rest of the
sporting world. Everybody knows LeBron, I doubt most people would even recognize Sidney Crosby.

stevek

I'm not what anyone would call a hockey fan although I'll root for the Flyers if they are in the Stanley Cup. I've been to a number of Flyer's games although not a large number, and yes hockey is good sport, good entertainment live. Granted, I really don't understand the game in the way I know football and baseball, so that being said, hockey to me is a dreadful bore on TV.

As far as the fights, the NHL will never totally curb the fighting. Anyone who doesn't understand why the NHL "tolerates" hockey fights, has probably never been to an NHL game...the TV cameras have trouble illuminating this, but the arena "lights up" whenever there is a fight...the fans stand up to watch it, they laugh and scream at the fighters, the fans are entertained and get a nice adrenaline rush thrill...and anyone who doesn't understand that the sports business is all about the money, doesn't truly understand what professional sports is all about...it's first and foremost about the money, and the fights generate fan interest...and fan interest, entertaining the fans results in money, plain and simple. Sure the fans nor anyone else wants to see players get permanently hurt from the fighting, so that aspect of it needs to be regulated and the NHL tries to do that. "Regulate" the fighting? - yes. Stopping the fighting? - the NHL will never do it.


-

yawie99

I have real mixed feelings about fighting. I used to be one of the maniacs that would hoot and holler when fisticuffs broke out, but now it just strikes me as a bit absurd: grown men engaging in what would be criminal behavior in almost any other context while 16,000+ cheer for more. However, I recognize that it can serve as a deterrence to stickwork and other types of cheapshots. In an ideal sporting world, I'd prefer no fighting, but if its presence reduces the frequency of the kind of stuff we (again) saw from Chris Simon this week, then I can certainly accept it.

Bottom9th

<< <i>I think they need to get rid of most of the southern tier teams and make it an all northern sport like it used to be. Get more teams back in Canada. >>



Getting rid of some of the southern or warm weather teams would eliminate the last 3 Stanley Cup Champions
Tampa Bay
Carolina
Anaheim

gosteelers

<< <i>

<< <i>I think they need to get rid of most of the southern tier teams and make it an all northern sport like it used to be. Get more teams back in Canada. >>



Getting rid of some of the southern or warm weather teams would eliminate the last 3 Stanley Cup Champions
Tampa Bay
Carolina
Anaheim >>



Yeah, were those games in Tampa and Carolina even sold out for the Stanley Cup Finals, though?

Kilann

<< <i>
It is Chris Simon. He got 30 games and it was not just for this one single incident. >>



My mistake, not sure where Corey came from. And thank you for illustrating my point even further which was the absurd notion that violence in the NHL is stemmed because of the fighting. Simon's the perfect example that violence exists in the league *because* of the fighting. Eliminate that part of the game which has absolutely no part whatsoever of the game and you'd have a much better and much more watchable sport. Make mandatory 25 game suspensions for anyone who engages in that sort of nonsense and I guarantee you it would end tomorrow. It serves no purpose, and please, don't give me 'hockey's a violent game!' crap. The NFL is every bit if not more violent, yet you don't see linemen getting into fisticuffs in every game like you do in hockey. Outlaw it tomorrow.




<< <i>People getting hit with sticks, cheapshots, ect are a result of the NHL trying to get rid of fighting, by having an instigator penalty. If you dont know what that is.. that should be reason enuff not to comment on it...lol. >>



I don't think I have ever heard of anything as ridiculous as this. People are getting hit with sticks and cheapshots because the NHL is trying to get rid of fighting? Good lord. If this is indeed true, then nobody was getting hit with sticks or cheapshotted before these rules came into play, right? Right?

Michigan

The NFL is violent but fighting is not a big problem. What is the difference with hockey? I think it has to do with the fast paced nature
of the game itself with guys bumping into each other almost constantly and nerves being frayed setting of a short fuse.

euphoria18

<< <i>I don't think I have ever heard of anything as ridiculous as this >>



Sorry if you think it is ridiculous... but it is absolutely true. go back even 10 years... if one person took a cheapshot at another, an enforcer would go at them, fight it out, and that is it. You rarely heard of anyone taking a shot to the head. Now, seems like each week there is some sort of stupid incident.

Taking out some of the teams... i completely agree with. And unfortunately one that i would like to see gone is the team i cheer for... simply because people there dont care about the sport, and dont goto the games. I would love them to relocate, but thats not going to happen.

Kilann

Get rid of the fights, get rid of the 'enforcers', make the game watchable...its like the old joke goes, 'I went to a fight and a hockey game broke out'.

rube26105

hi axtell,stits,snow white,keene,brians-you sure arent hard to pick out in a crowd

euphoria18

A great quote from a movie
"lesser men play lesser sports, real men play real hockey, old time hockey"
Again, you dont like the fights... then dont watch the game. The majority of people like the fighting... the minority are the ones who speak out about it. Fact is, when you are at a game and there is a fight... it gets a huge reaction from the crowd. If people didnt like it, they simply would not react to it.
Just because YOU do not like it, do not summarize it for the rest of the people. If i had my way, they would make baseball games to a 1 hour time limit, just like every "major" sport.

Kilann

Real men play hockey? heh.

Sure they do. I'd like you to tell an lineman in the NFL that he's not a real man because he doesn't play hockey and engage in out-and-out hooliganism.

Fighting has no part in hockey...the hard hits, the checking, absolutely. Dropping the gloves and going at it? It's HOCKEY not BOXING.

euphoria18

<< <i>out-and-out hooliganism >>


hmmmm.. i seem to recall everything from guys ripping helmets off and throwing punchs in football games... same with baseball, basketball, soccer, and each sport... it gets a crowd reaction. But wait.. you arent saying anything about 25 game suspension, kick them out of the league for that. Fact remains, 10 years ago, when there were more fights, there were few cheapshots compared to today.
Again, if you dont like the sport... dont watch it.

Kilann

I want to watch hockey, not boxing. The fights have no place in the game. Remember, the sport is hockey not fighting.

Unlike in hockey, fighting IS condemned in other sports. Tell me, when is the last time a fight broke out like in hockey in other sports? When it did, were there not suspensions handed out? Yet in hockey, it's part of the 'culture' therefore its not punished? How ridiculous a statement is that?

Oh, by the way, I'm not the only one 'not watching' hockey, as the abysmal ratings go to show.

euphoria18

Perfect... dont watch hockey then. And where the "abysimal ratings" it makes no difference to me who is watching the game. 18 teams have their attendance above 90%. Get rid of the places where it simply doesnt belong, and it will be perfect. As i said, you want fighting gone, and i would love to have a time limit on baseball to 1 hour.

euphoria18

Oh last time a fight occured in football.. was last week. And it was much worse than in hockey... hockey 99% of the time it is a 1 on 1... football had a bench clearing brawl.

Michigan

Yet in hockey, it's part of the 'culture' therefore its not punished? How ridiculous a statement is that?


Not ridiculous at all if you think about it, the fact that it has been tolerated for so long without serious punishment shows
there is acceptance within certain limits of fighting in the culture of the NHL otherwise they would be doing more to try
and stop it.

dirtmonkey

<< <i>I want to watch hockey, not boxing. The fights have no place in the game. Remember, the sport is hockey not fighting.

Unlike in hockey, fighting IS condemned in other sports. Tell me, when is the last time a fight broke out like in hockey in other sports? When it did, were there not suspensions handed out? Yet in hockey, it's part of the 'culture' therefore its not punished? How ridiculous a statement is that? >>



Well some probably prefer to watch baseball instead of beanball, yet sometimes that happens in a game. In my opinion, fighting is much safer than throwing a baseball at 90 mph towards a guys head. If baseball players would act like men and just fight it out instead of throwing chit at eachother, the game would be more bearable. Yet tons of people aren't up in arms insisting this part of the game be removed, using the reason that it's part of the game. Fighting has been a part of hockey for quite some time, just like those good ol' beanballs have been in baseball.

Michigan

Sidney Crosby got into a fight last night and the guys on ESPN's "Around the horn" were saying he needed to do it to prove his
manhood and did a good job of it by drawing blood. That I think is kind of silly but that kind of reaction shows you how
some people look at the game.

Kilann

<< <i>Oh last time a fight occured in football.. was last week. And it was much worse than in hockey... hockey 99% of the time it is a 1 on 1... football had a bench clearing brawl. >>



Please provide details of this alleged 'fight' that was a bench clearing brawl in which punches were thrown...otherwise you will continue to lose any credibility you might have had.

euphoria18

<< <i>Please provide details of this alleged 'fight' that was a bench clearing brawl in which punches were thrown...otherwise you will continue to lose any credibility you might have had. >>



You have had no credibility at all, only stated your own beliefs. But, look up the game that florida had.

Kilann

<< <i>

<< <i>Please provide details of this alleged 'fight' that was a bench clearing brawl in which punches were thrown...otherwise you will continue to lose any credibility you might have had. >>



You have had no credibility at all, only stated your own beliefs. But, look up the game that florida had. >>



Florida? You talking college ball involving a bunch of kids? I'm assuming you mean Miami and MIU? You mean the game in which the participants were suspended for partaking in the fight?

Thank you for proving my point even further, that fighting has no place whatsoever in organized team sports.

dallasactuary

Back to the original questions; I check the box scores every night, I watch an average of 1 game per night on television (on a good lazy weekend I might see 5 or 6 games), and I love the NHL. I do wish that more peolpe shared my passion, went to more games and watched more games on television but I don't want the NHL to destroy its product by pandering to the non-fans who will probably never become fans anyway. I'd like to see longer suspensions for the cheap shots, but eliminate fighting? You go watch your game and leave me to watch mine.

euphoria18

Yes i am meaning that game. College is a "bunch of kids"?? They were suspended because it is not a part of football. However, you seem to have troubles accepting the fact that it is allowed and it is part of the sport. And all you keep rambling on is about your own opinions. Again, you think fighting should be taken out of hockey, and i think baseball should be capped at 1 hour. Guess what... neither is gonna happen, so i guess we both gotta accept it.

Kilann

What I don't understand is what the draw is to fighting in hockey...its completely unrelated to the game, and has no place in civil sports. Just as those who participate in fights in football, baseball, or basketball should (and ARE) suspended for game(s) for fighting, so should hockey. Until that changes hockey will be relegated to the fringe sports fan.

yawie99

<< <i>What I don't understand is what the draw is to fighting in hockey...its completely unrelated to the game, and has no place in civil sports. Just as those who participate in fights in football, baseball, or basketball should (and ARE) suspended for game(s) for fighting, so should hockey. Until that changes hockey will be relegated to the fringe sports fan. >>



I think you're missing the point. Most hockey fans would love to see the game return to its former cult status. Bettman thought he could turn a fringe league like the NHL into the NBA on ice - Jordan era NBA, mind you - but has failed miserably. The recent Stanley Cup success of some of the franchises notwithstanding, I don't think the league has cultivated the fan interest it thought it would in the Southeast and Southwest, but even worse, it's alienated a lot of longtime diehards.

We were perfectly content with a small ESPN contract, with divisions named for obscure figures from the game's past, with being mocked for a playoff system in which more than 75 percent of the teams qualified, and with the fact that the game didn't have a hold on the national sporting consciousness. I'm sure the overwhelming majority of hockey fans would rather their game be left alone than be further changed in what looks like a futile quest to take the sport big time in the United States.

gosteelers

It all started going downhill for the NHL when FOX decided to make the puck 'glow'!

Connecticoin

<< <i>

<< <i>I think they need to get rid of most of the southern tier teams and make it an all northern sport like it used to be. Get more teams back in Canada. >>



Getting rid of some of the southern or warm weather teams would eliminate the last 3 Stanley Cup Champions
Tampa Bay
Carolina
Anaheim >>



Or move them back where they belong!!

80sToyguy

I'd love to see the Whalers back in the NHL, some great Habs/Whalers series' from back in the day!
Those were the good ol days!
Jay