1909-S Indian Cent - Your Opinions Please

ndgoflo · December 18, 2007 12:24AM

Hi all, this is a recent addition of mine and I would be interested in all of your professional opinions (comments, grade, value) to see how bad I made out.

I picked it up at a local auction and ended up paying a bit more than I cared to. But I figure that if I hold on to it for 25-30 years I won't end up upsidedown.

millennium · December 18, 2007 12:28AM

Counterfeit....

na...just kidding....Hard to tell from the pics, looks like an old cleaning...not bad though.

commoncents05 · December 18, 2007 12:44AM

Decent looking, looks to have an old cleaning.

-Paul

dlimb2 · December 18, 2007 1:16AM

Dipped with no life of luster left!

Big hits to the rim in several places...not good.

$400 at most....good coin to collect though...I know it is hard to find this coin in the condition you would like to own it in...which most of us penny pinchers can not.

Walkerguy21D · December 18, 2007 2:19AM

Hard to tell from the photo, though it may be an added "S". If you could blow this area up and repost, we could probably tell better. It just looks kind of 'bulgy' rather than 'boxy'. I apologize if you already know the diagnostics, and know it is genuine - I'm just trying to help out. Especially since even small auction companies generally offer returns on counterfeits, if it's bad, maybe you can return it. Though I doubt they will accept a return based on 'what the forum guys said', but you never know. Certainly if Rick Snow sees it and makes a call, that should be good enough for anyone!
Greg

doh · December 18, 2007 2:44AM

A little beat up, but not too bad. It's a great date to add to your collection! Even though you say you paid more than you wanted, I hope you still got a good price!

UncleJoe · December 18, 2007 2:46AM

The "S" looks good to me. The coin looks like it might have been jewelry at one time based on those crimp marks on the obverse and reverse.

Joe.

Longacre · December 18, 2007 2:56AM

I would call that an XF40, but unfortunately no sticker.

ndgoflo · December 18, 2007 3:01AM

Thanks for the replies, I would love to hear Rick Snow chime in. Here's a quick close up of the mint mark.

I don't think that there is any possibility for a return here, pretty sure all sales were final. Just another lesson in life. Just so long as it is original, I think I will end up OK in the long run.

EagleEye · December 18, 2007 3:01AM

Better have someone take a close look at it. Millennium may be right.

I picked it up at a local auction
This is a big red flag!

EagleEye · December 18, 2007 3:03AM

Dang, You posted right on top of me! MM looks OK with the close-up pic.

Here's a well made false-die counterfeit.

UtahCoin · December 18, 2007 3:06AM

XF Details, cleaned & re-colored.

ndgoflo · December 18, 2007 3:35AM

Thanks Rick, I feel a little better having your opinion on whether or not it was the real deal. When I was bidding on it, I felt pretty confident that it was real. All of the items being auctioned belong to an older fellow who was in his golden years. Not a slabbed coin in sight, I don't think he subscribed to that school of thought. Along with all of the common stuff, he had quite a few desireable coins. Bust Halves, Seated Dollar, 1922 No D Lincoln and others along with the better part of an Indian Cent collection (that were ran off individually). Although the possibility of a fake always rest in my mind, I felt that it was more than likely the real deal. I asked myself "why isn't it in plastic", but I just figured that the old fella "didn't need to pay anybody for an opinion", or perhaps it would have ended up in a BB due to what I thought was an old cleaning (which I don't really mind, I think it has decent eye appeal).

What I didn't notice until I got it home and took it out of the 2x2 was the edge damage. Had I seen that, I probably would have steered clear and waited for a better example.

I believed it to be XF with a possible old cleaning (not seeing the damage). I thought I might have been able to pick it up for F-VF money, but ended up paying XF money.

Oh, BTW, my pics were taken with my cell phone camera, if you can believe that!

Walkerguy21D · December 18, 2007 5:16AM

Looks like you did Ok, glad the 'S' is legit, and a reasonable coin for an album collection. It's hard to steal the key dates in any condition in a hot market.
Greg

relicsncoins · December 18, 2007 5:24AM

Here is my opinion of the coin...........XF40 details, the surfaces look a little off, appears to have a rough rim, and a pretty drastic hit on the first feather. I wouldn't expect the coin to bring over low end VF money. I guess it depends on what you paid for it.

JJ