The modern registry nuts are officially in heaven!
SeattleSlammer
Posts: 10,032 ✭✭✭✭✭
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This thread absolutely kills me.
If you read through it you'll note that everyone is thrilled that this 2007 MS70 Roosie went for $6500 so that it can serve as an "accurate price guide" for others. Of course the seller listed at $9750 but decided that $6500 was the "best" offer....oh what a special deal for that buyer!
This thread absolutely kills me.
If you read through it you'll note that everyone is thrilled that this 2007 MS70 Roosie went for $6500 so that it can serve as an "accurate price guide" for others. Of course the seller listed at $9750 but decided that $6500 was the "best" offer....oh what a special deal for that buyer!
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This is something special.
Not hard to believe a mint set coin that small could go 70, hundreds of the proofs do and many mint set Lincolns have graded that high.
One of anything is special!
-commentary-
Although I think moderns are a viable part of the hobby that should be taken seriously, I personally would never spend that kind of money on a coin like that. Because of today's high mintages, I think there are a lot of 70's out there, encased in mint packaging, that could be sent in at any time. There are a lot less examples of 'classic' coins in hiding than the millions of ungraded moderns out there. I believe HRH said right here that a PCGS 70 coin has no visible flaws under 5x magnification...despite the poor quality of the sets, I believe one could spend a fraction of the $6500 that was spent for this coin on sets from the mint, and get at least one of those dimes to grade 70...they are small, lightweight coins, and as such, IMHO, have a better chance of making that grade than other denominations. Besides, making one from raw would be a lot more fun!
But, what interests me about the sale is that there are some exceedingly difficult top pop business strike Roosies dated 1965-1990's, including some incredible "pop 1" and "pop 2" coins which have yet to trade at even half of what this 2007 SF coin just traded at. IMHO, there is an excellent chance prices could really move up sharply on these truly scarce business strike jewels.
With respect to 1960's -1990's business strike clad coinage - we ain't seen nothing yet!!
Wondercoin.
$1750
$1200
$1200, PCGS AU55
$2150, NGC PF66
$1250, PCGS MS63
$4250, PCGS MS67
<< <i>
With respect to 1960's -1990's business strike clad coinage - we ain't seen nothing yet!!
Wondercoin. >>
Some of these coins are truly remarkable. Dimes are one of the most fun moderns
to hunt because you can find them once in a while in almost any date. When you
do find them they tend to be simply spectacular and often quite PL. Perhaps even
better than the PL's are the first dozen strikes from new dies have a very special
look to them that is simply unmatched by other gems.
There are a lot of people collecting the ultramoderns and it's a very small leap (if that)
to expand back into the moderns. I have to believe you're right that this is nearly vir-
gin turf and the cowboys are coming.
$1750
Beautiful coin but it sure would look silly in my clad dime collection.
<< <i>As has become customary when bashing moderns, I've listed a nice string of coins (we'll keep them the same denomination in this case for at least 3 out of 4) for what could be had for the same price ($6500) as the 2007 MS70 Roosie. After purchasing the four beautiful dimes below, you'd still have $200 left to put towards a clue for your favorite modern 69-70 dime collecting friend.
Widgets. None with a low pop. Easily available coins. There is ONE of these dimes available. You seem to like old tarnished coins better. Here's a clue: The buyer of this dime prefers low pop shiney coins. --jerry
2007 P ROOSEVELT 10c PCGS MS70FB!!! ~SATIN FINISH~
TOP POP UNIQUE MS70 FULL BANDS ROOSEVELT!
Nuff said.
I know, Jerry, but we shouldn't stop educating our coin brothers in need. I thought that the local dump looked pretty deep too until I saw the grand canyon.
IMHO of course.
CoinHusker, I don't really care but I was bored and I enjoy posting pretty coins for comment....comparisons of what can be had for the same dollar amount....and given the ridiculous sums that a 69-70 modern coin can bring, they make perfect targets. Honestly, if somebody wanted to show me all of the 69-70 moderns I could buy for the cost of say my avatar, I wouldn't be offended. I've certainly spent what some would consider moon money on toned coins.
PS-I do like your description: "the dreaded scourge."
<< <i>To me, it's the same with the dreaded scourge of ultra modern ms70 registry coins. It's not my money so who cares.
CoinHusker, I don't really care but I was bored and I enjoy posting pretty coins for comment....comparisons of what can be had for the same dollar amount....and given the ridiculous sums that a 69-70 modern coin can bring, they make perfect targets. Honestly, if somebody wanted to show me all of the 69-70 moderns I could buy for the cost of say my avatar, I wouldn't be offended. I've certainly spent what some would consider moon money on toned coins.
PS-I do like your description: "the dreaded scourge."
Well, maybe we can agree with some cliche's.
Different strokes for different folks.
Variety is the spice of life.
With the money the finder/submitter/seller gained maybe he would buy one of those beautiful toners you have a right to show off. But if not, it's his choice to make. I really don't think there is a right or wrong in this, at least I sure hope not.
proof set type coin. in other words, special care was taken to make them.
i am not shocked at all a specially made coin is in perfect condition
being minted a few months ago and then put into special packaging.
someone correct me if i am wrong please.
it also means every other satin finish dime is a 68-69 and in your
hand a few feet away you cannot tell the difference from them.
a 70 on the label is the only reason this coin is "special".
(Now, I wonder how many modern bashers will be able to comprehend the meaning of that post).
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>...It's their money, they can burn it, waste it or eat it if they want too. To me, it's the same with the dreaded scourge of ultra modern ms70 registry coins. It's not my money so who cares. >>
I have to agree with this.
I shake my head in amazement when I see a modern coin such as this sell for such a high price.
But then again, some of my family and closest friends shook their head in amazement when I gave them an idea of how much money I spent on my old coins.
Collect what you like...like what you collect. It's your money and you are the only one who has to be happy with the purchase.
<< <i>I shake my head in amazement when I see a modern coin such as this sell for such a high price. >>
There are some Kennedys coming up in the Heritage FUN sale that will bring around double what this dime brought. And, they aren't even MS70's.
Russ, NCNE
At least those have 40 years going for them. As opposed to a few months.
<< <i>
<< <i>I shake my head in amazement when I see a modern coin such as this sell for such a high price. >>
There are some Kennedys coming up in the Heritage FUN sale that will bring around double what this dime brought. And, they aren't even MS70's.
Russ, NCNE >>
Well yeah...but that's different.
Or he submits the best he can find and gets MS 64
Or he submits the best he can find and gets MS 66
That a guy submits his best and gets an MS 70 plus makes moon money off it, should be cause for celebration, not negative publicity. I think collector's true colors show by remarks made and the position taken in threads such as these. Congrats to the new owner and the seller.
<< <i>
That a guy submits his best and gets an MS 70 plus makes moon money off it, should be cause for celebration, not negative publicity. I think collector's true colors show by remarks made and the position taken in threads such as these. Congrats to the new owner and the seller. >>
Joe, don't you think, that some folks just don't realize how hard it is to make a Ms 70? Sifting through piles of coins, finding and making a huge score. This is the american dream. Sometimes I have to wonder if we don't have some success envy going on when modern bashing occurs. Just MHO of course.
I don't envy your position but certainly appreciate your ability to balance the two so diplomatically. Not to go off topic, but it ties in to numismatics so perfectly and your post above is duly noted.
<< <i>I do not understand what "the big deal is" about having a modern MS69 or MS70 coin, when there are millions upon millions of the same coin that look real good in slightly lower grades. >>
These are inaccurate generalities again. Many moderns are scarce or rare
and there are not "many million" in slightly lower grade. Many other moderns
are scarce, rare or tough in uncircultaed condition. Then there are some mod-
erns which exist by the million in unc but are scarce or rare in gem. There are
not millions of MS-69 '07 dimes. Indeed, my understanding is that there are
a mere handfull in MS-68 and MS-69.
There aren't any generalities that apply to all moderns except that they were
struch after 1964.
Luckily since this is my thread, I can color it anyway I see fit. It is true, my true colors are that I think moderns for the most part are ridiculous...silly.....crap!.....yet, as I stated earlier, I mostly enjoy showing all of the more original coins that can be had for the same money. Of course my idea of original is not the same as yours, and that's fine.
Frankly, since most people on these boards see it as ridiculous that a MS70 Roosie minted a few months ago sold for $6500, I don't think it's so much negative publicity as just stating the facts. Obviously there are some that think it's great (modern dealers and those that have sunk tons of money into these modern 69-70 coins), and they're opinions are also being equally expressed.
I admire the modern dealers for diligently pressing the notion that a MS70 Roosie minted a few months ago is a rare treasure. That's great marketing and capitalism at its best.
Oh yeah, TRUE colors. Let's put the emphasis on who's thread it is
<< <i>As has become customary when bashing moderns, I've listed a nice string of coins (we'll keep them the same denomination in this case for at least 3 out of 4) for what could be had for the same price ($6500) as the 2007 MS70 Roosie. After purchasing the four beautiful dimes below, you'd still have $200 left to put towards a clue for your favorite modern 69-70 dime collecting friend.
$1750
$1200
$1200, PCGS AU55
$2150, NGC PF66
So as to not derail your MODERN BASHING thread, I thought I'd quote this post which are, by the way, all excellent coins.
Mostly I trust PCGS to grade them... then me... then maybe fc.
Hats off to the seller and the buyer.
You wouldn't believe how long it took to get him to sit still for this.
<< <i>I admire the modern dealers for diligently pressing the notion that a MS70 Roosie minted a few months ago is a rare treasure. That's great marketing and capitalism at its best. >>
Since it's the only Roosevelt to ever grade at this level then it is rare and the fact that so many millions upon millions are out there year after year and with so many people looking through them that only one has ever been found, that is rare my friend whether you want to believe it or not. Those that think that a grade 70 is no different from a 69 have never looked at a grade 70 coin. When you look at one of these under a scope it is perfection. It is as the coin designer meant for it to be. It is amazing.
While I think classic coins are great and are probably more fun in a lot of ways, I don't collect them and I don't appreciate the bigots that have to snipe at moderns and bullion any chance they get. I'd bought that dime had I known it would have gone that low and I don't collect dimes but I would have loved to have picked that one up.
i thought this was a special mint set and not a "circulation strike"?
so millions and millions of them is not quite accurate?
they came in special mint packaging and thus had different handling
then the normal circ strikes?
from the mint website " These coins are struck on special presses using greater force than circulating coins, producing a sharp, intricately detailed image, and feature the satin finish introduced in 2005."
so i really dislike how this is being portrayed by some as a mint state
70 circ strike... when in reality it is more like a proof to me in the creation and handling.
<< <i>i thought this was a special mint set and not a "circulation strike"?
so millions and millions of them is not quite accurate? >>
There's nothing "special" about these mint sets. They are handled the same way mint sets have always been handled. The only difference is the finish.
<< <i>when in reality it is more like a proof to me in the creation and handling. >>
Uh, okay.
Russ, NCNE
uh, okay. my point is they are "different" then the circulating coins.
just like a proof is different then a circ strike.
being obtuse is not funny last i checked.
the majority of these satin finish coins are all high grade. why should
a 70 get me excited when all the rest are 68-69... plus, crack it out
it probably will not get graded 70 again...
that is my point. they are all high grade.
i am happy for the seller and the new owner.. but to consider my line
of thought as modern bashing is silly. i am just being open minded
about the discussion as an outsider would be looking in.
personally i would be more excited by a true circ strike grading 70
then a special mint set satin finish coin straight from the mint packaging that was made a few months ago.
<< <i>Frankly, since most people on these boards see it as ridiculous that a MS70 Roosie minted a few months ago sold for $6500.... >>
Sounds as if you might be letting your bias lead you to a possibly false conclusion.
Many modern fans realize the futility of debating the issue with a ModernBasher and would forego posting to this thread.
I for one think a business strike example MS70 Roosie would be a real winner at $6500. Being a SF coin, more will likely show up.
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
<< <i>
i thought this was a special mint set and not a "circulation strike"?
so millions and millions of them is not quite accurate?
they came in special mint packaging and thus had different handling
then the normal circ strikes?
from the mint website " These coins are struck on special presses using greater force than circulating coins, producing a sharp, intricately detailed image, and feature the satin finish introduced in 2005."
. >>
All coins are supposed to be sharply struck with an intricately detailed image but
relatively few in modern times are. Since the mint does achieve this goal on rare
occasion with coins intended for circulation does it really matter what exactly is
required for the mint set coins. The only thing that has fundamentally changed
with mint set coins in recent years is that now the dies are chrome plated and the
mint is taking more care in the handling of the coins. Are we now supposed to go
back and discount all the gem moderns which might have been issued in mint sets
because they are specially prepared? You can't really tell the older ones apart and
in all probability there is not a conclusive test for the SF coins either.
If you're collecting the SF coins then where else are you supposed to find them but
the mint set.
I totally understand. And as Griv implied, I am certainly bigoted about ultra moderns.
I also genuinely admire the ultra modern collectors' passionate arguments for why their pocket change minted just a few months ago is so rare.
And I greatly admire PCGS for throwing out a 70 bone here and there to get the modern collectors amped and to pump more juice into the 69 resubmit game.
Still, it is strangley cathartic for me to bash what I perceive as rampant idiocy.
Of course, you are more than welcome to bash back if it makes you feel better/redeemed/justified. I won't break, promise.
That's what this forum is all about.
Still more food for thought. You could spend $4250 on this gorgeous PCGS MS64 half and still have $2250 to give to your favorite charity.
Think about it!
Mintage 6,602 - selling below melt!!
Wondercoin
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
<< <i>MS/PR70 is a paradoxical grade. Since grading services will not cross 70s while encapsulated, it is impossible to fully experience a 70 as defined by the grading service while it is in the holder. As it is this definition of 70 that people are paying good money for -- that which they can never see without cracking out the coin and destroying its value barring a fortunate resubmission, buying 70s seems akin to buying rare old wine, as someone PM'ed me a few days ago. The only way to know how good it is is to open the bottle and destroy its value. Whereas this is true for all rare, old wine. For coins, this only hold for 70s, since a 69 of a coin for which a 70 exists is far less expensive. Perhaps one reason they're not for me. >>
I think QDB said that once in so many words. Except he also added the mintage factor.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>
I totally understand. And as Griv implied, I am certainly bigoted about ultra moderns.
I also genuinely admire the ultra modern collectors' passionate arguments for why their pocket change minted just a few months ago is so rare.
And I greatly admire PCGS for throwing out a 70 bone here and there to get the modern collectors amped and to pump more juice into the 69 resubmit game.
Still, it is strangley cathartic for me to bash what I perceive as rampant idiocy.
Of course, you are more than welcome to bash back if it makes you feel better/redeemed/justified. I won't break, promise.
>>
Actually I started a classic bashing thread once but was so
embarassed that I destroyed it within an hour.
The simple fact is that in any head to head comparison of classics and mod-
erns the moderns win on every point.
So go ahead and bash moderns but don't forget who lives in the glass house.
The simplest fact is that everything is a matter of taste and preferences. How
we view the different coins is simply perspective. That you don't like moderns
is fine but this says more about the beholder than the beauty sometimes.
i think you meant:
That you don't like moderns is fine but this says more about the HOLDER than the beauty sometimes
take the coin out of the holder and what do we have? ;o)
a satin finish coin busted out of the original packaging.
<< <i>Getting a 69 FB is a major score, never mind a 70.
One of anything is special! >>
yeah, but just imagine if you had five of them. You could buy a can of soda.
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