Do you have a numismatic equivalent of “home cooking” that soothes you like the Doug Winter blog ind
Longacre
Posts: 16,717 ✭✭✭
I was reading the new Doug Winter blog which I pasted below. Just hearing that a new book on gold coins is in the works threw me into a frenzy, the extent of which I have not experienced in a while. Other than the silly business noted below about population figures, pedigrees, and condition census coins, I was even more intrigued that an aged dealer like Winter has a series of coins that are the numismatic equivalent of “home cooking”, and which soothes his soul whenever he is feeling cranky or burned out.
Given that it is the holiday season and a time in which the stresses and hustle and bustle of the season can really get you down, do you have a numismatic equivalent of “home cooking” that you turn to when times get stressful? For Longacre, I look forward to the evenings of putting on my smoking jacket and slippers, sitting by a roaring fire, pouring an excessively rare cognac that I pulled deep from my personal wine cellar, sitting in an overstuffed chair and immersing myself in a meaty numismatic book for an evening of relaxation. Of course, that does not happen until I kowtow to The Man on a daily basis, fight my way home in traffic, figure out what to make for dinner because Mrs. L. is allergic to the stove, give each of the kiddies a bath, read bedtime stories, and I hopefully get over my chest pains after seeing Mrs. L.’s latest Tiffany’s bill.
What is your numismatic equivalent of home cooking?
***********
December 14, 2007
As I’ve been working on the updated third edition of my Charlotte book, I’ve had the chance to make some interesting observations regarding the rarity of Charlotte half eagles.
The overall rarity of most Charlotte half eagles has changed. In nearly every instance, this has meant an increase in the total number known for a specific issue. As an example, I estimated in the second edition that 70-80 examples of the 1840-C half eagle existed. My revised estimate, in the third edition, is 80-100.
The increased populations are a result of a number of factors. After nearly twenty years of grading Charlotte coins, the PCGS and NGC populations represent significantly large percentages of the known total for every specific issue. So, these population figures carry more weight with me than they did ten years ago (and, yes, I have figured regrades/resubmissions prominently as a factor of total populations from both services).
I believe that my second edition estimates were also a bit on the low side when it comes to lower grade coins. While I knew of nearly every high grade 1840-C half eagle that exists (now or when the last edition was written) I tended to underestimate the low grade coins. My new estimates try to take into account these pieces.
There are changes in the population estimates for EF and AU half eagles because, let’s face it, the EF45 of ten years ago is, in most cases, an AU50 (or higher) today. I’ve tried to factor in gradeflation into my estimates and I tend to discount some of the slabbed AU50 or MS60/61 coins as, in my opinion, they do not meet my personal grading standards.
One thing my updated research has reinforced is that really choice Charlotte half eagles (MS63 and better) remain genuinely rare. While many of the coins listed in the Condition Census of my second book have changed owners and, in many cases, holders, they remain coins with pedigrees that I am able to trace back to the 1990’s or earlier. I’ve also noticed that the grading services have done a good job (most of the time) at holding the line on higher grading Charlotte half eagles. While a few MS63’s have become MS64’s or MS64’s have become MS65’s, many of the coins that were grading MS64 or MS65 back in the mid-to-late 1990’s have remained consistently graded.
The Bass sales, held from 1999 to 2001, had a huge impact on the third edition of the book. Many of the coins that I speculated about in the first two editions but were unaware of their location/grades were in the Bass collection. They now appear in the third edition; complete with accurate pedigrees and current grades.
What are a few other things that I have learned about Charlotte half eagles that will be reflected in the new third edition of the book?
• I’ve learned that some of the die variety information for issues such as the 1849-C, 1850-C, 1853-C and 1854-C was wrong and it has been corrected.
• I’ve learned the value of good pictures and the crappy old black and white images that appeared in the first two editions will be replaced by useful color plates.
• I’ve learned that people generally liked the format and design of my second edition of the New Orleans gold book that I published last year and so this format will be adapted to the upcoming Charlotte book.
• Finally, I’ve learned that Charlotte coinage for me is like the numismatic equivalent of “home cooking” and when I’m feeling cranky or burned-out, nothing is more numismatically soothing than a dose of Charlotte half eagles.
Doug Winter
12/14/07
www.raregoldcoins.com
For more information on Charlotte gold coins please contact me via email at dwn@ont.com
Given that it is the holiday season and a time in which the stresses and hustle and bustle of the season can really get you down, do you have a numismatic equivalent of “home cooking” that you turn to when times get stressful? For Longacre, I look forward to the evenings of putting on my smoking jacket and slippers, sitting by a roaring fire, pouring an excessively rare cognac that I pulled deep from my personal wine cellar, sitting in an overstuffed chair and immersing myself in a meaty numismatic book for an evening of relaxation. Of course, that does not happen until I kowtow to The Man on a daily basis, fight my way home in traffic, figure out what to make for dinner because Mrs. L. is allergic to the stove, give each of the kiddies a bath, read bedtime stories, and I hopefully get over my chest pains after seeing Mrs. L.’s latest Tiffany’s bill.
What is your numismatic equivalent of home cooking?
***********
December 14, 2007
As I’ve been working on the updated third edition of my Charlotte book, I’ve had the chance to make some interesting observations regarding the rarity of Charlotte half eagles.
The overall rarity of most Charlotte half eagles has changed. In nearly every instance, this has meant an increase in the total number known for a specific issue. As an example, I estimated in the second edition that 70-80 examples of the 1840-C half eagle existed. My revised estimate, in the third edition, is 80-100.
The increased populations are a result of a number of factors. After nearly twenty years of grading Charlotte coins, the PCGS and NGC populations represent significantly large percentages of the known total for every specific issue. So, these population figures carry more weight with me than they did ten years ago (and, yes, I have figured regrades/resubmissions prominently as a factor of total populations from both services).
I believe that my second edition estimates were also a bit on the low side when it comes to lower grade coins. While I knew of nearly every high grade 1840-C half eagle that exists (now or when the last edition was written) I tended to underestimate the low grade coins. My new estimates try to take into account these pieces.
There are changes in the population estimates for EF and AU half eagles because, let’s face it, the EF45 of ten years ago is, in most cases, an AU50 (or higher) today. I’ve tried to factor in gradeflation into my estimates and I tend to discount some of the slabbed AU50 or MS60/61 coins as, in my opinion, they do not meet my personal grading standards.
One thing my updated research has reinforced is that really choice Charlotte half eagles (MS63 and better) remain genuinely rare. While many of the coins listed in the Condition Census of my second book have changed owners and, in many cases, holders, they remain coins with pedigrees that I am able to trace back to the 1990’s or earlier. I’ve also noticed that the grading services have done a good job (most of the time) at holding the line on higher grading Charlotte half eagles. While a few MS63’s have become MS64’s or MS64’s have become MS65’s, many of the coins that were grading MS64 or MS65 back in the mid-to-late 1990’s have remained consistently graded.
The Bass sales, held from 1999 to 2001, had a huge impact on the third edition of the book. Many of the coins that I speculated about in the first two editions but were unaware of their location/grades were in the Bass collection. They now appear in the third edition; complete with accurate pedigrees and current grades.
What are a few other things that I have learned about Charlotte half eagles that will be reflected in the new third edition of the book?
• I’ve learned that some of the die variety information for issues such as the 1849-C, 1850-C, 1853-C and 1854-C was wrong and it has been corrected.
• I’ve learned the value of good pictures and the crappy old black and white images that appeared in the first two editions will be replaced by useful color plates.
• I’ve learned that people generally liked the format and design of my second edition of the New Orleans gold book that I published last year and so this format will be adapted to the upcoming Charlotte book.
• Finally, I’ve learned that Charlotte coinage for me is like the numismatic equivalent of “home cooking” and when I’m feeling cranky or burned-out, nothing is more numismatically soothing than a dose of Charlotte half eagles.
Doug Winter
12/14/07
www.raregoldcoins.com
For more information on Charlotte gold coins please contact me via email at dwn@ont.com
Always took candy from strangers
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
0
Comments
The overall rarity of most Charlotte half eagles has changed
nothing has "changed". you were just wrong.
As an example, I estimated in the second edition that 70-80 examples of the 1840-C half eagle existed. My revised estimate, in the third edition, is 80-100.
if you were wrong before why should we think you are right now?
you sold coins pimping them as uber rare and gosh golly, they are
not as rare as you thought eh? shocking. truly. sigh.
(and, yes, I have figured regrades/resubmissions prominently as a factor of total populations from both services)
i am sure you are the source of most of those crack outs eh? this
you are an expert on i am sure. ngc does well for you.
There are changes in the population estimates for EF and AU half eagles because, let’s face it, the EF45 of ten years ago is, in most cases, an AU50 (or higher) today.
hey longacre! they all get stickers too! i cannot grade and you all
mock me! ryk take notice. your hero is trying to tell you something!
I tended to underestimate the low grade coins.
gosh. did he start watching ebay more often? i have said this countless times.
the majority of southern gold is NOT RARE. it is sold on ebay constantly in lower grades. the pops are quite big!
I’ve tried to factor in gradeflation into my estimates and I tend to discount some of the slabbed AU50 or MS60/61 coins as, in my opinion, they do not meet my personal grading standards.
but oh golly gee, you had no problem selling xf45 coins as au53
for the last few years for great profits! same with those low MS
coins! why the change of heart? how is that roll of cac stickers doing
for you?
i have no idea why people listen to this guy for advice. he is a dealer
therefore he has an obvious bias when it comes to these things.
these constant books about gold coinage are quite laugable as they
regurgitate slightly varied info over and over again. anyone who has
studied half eagles over the years knows which are rare and which
are not. sothern gold, for the most part, is not rare. conditionally
rare sure.. but not rare.
but do not let DW's customers know that... they might rethink what
they are paying for an xf45 coin in a ngc au55 holder!
booyah
ugh i am so done commenting on this dw blog crap. waste of effort.
he is the expert and will reel in the fish.
<< <i>i am learning this guy aint an expert.
The overall rarity of most Charlotte half eagles has changed
nothing has "changed". you were just wrong.
As an example, I estimated in the second edition that 70-80 examples of the 1840-C half eagle existed. My revised estimate, in the third edition, is 80-100.
if you were wrong before why should we think you are right now?
you sold coins pimping them as uber rare and gosh golly, they are
not as rare as you thought eh? shocking. truly. sigh.
(and, yes, I have figured regrades/resubmissions prominently as a factor of total populations from both services)
i am sure you are the source of most of those crack outs eh? this
you are an expert on i am sure. ngc does well for you.
There are changes in the population estimates for EF and AU half eagles because, let’s face it, the EF45 of ten years ago is, in most cases, an AU50 (or higher) today.
hey longacre! they all get stickers too! i cannot grade and you all
mock me! ryk take notice. your hero is trying to tell you something!
I tended to underestimate the low grade coins.
gosh. did he start watching ebay more often? i have said this countless times.
the majority of southern gold is NOT RARE. it is sold on ebay constantly in lower grades. the pops are quite big!
I’ve tried to factor in gradeflation into my estimates and I tend to discount some of the slabbed AU50 or MS60/61 coins as, in my opinion, they do not meet my personal grading standards.
but oh golly gee, you had no problem selling xf45 coins as au53
for the last few years for great profits! same with those low MS
coins! why the change of heart? how is that roll of cac stickers doing
for you?
i have no idea why people listen to this guy for advice. he is a dealer
therefore he has an obvious bias when it comes to these things.
these constant books about gold coinage are quite laugable as they
regurgitate slightly varied info over and over again. anyone who has
studied half eagles over the years knows which are rare and which
are not. sothern gold, for the most part, is not rare. conditionally
rare sure.. but not rare.
but do not let DW's customers know that... they might rethink what
they are paying for an xf45 coin in a ngc au55 holder!
booyah >>
I have said this before and I will say it again. With all of my numismatic purchases, be it from Winter or otherwise, I simply ask myself, "what would fc do?"
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
I commit to stuff I can't afford. Keeps me from getting lazy and complacent at work.
oh and longacre. why do you copy my whole post to reply with
a one liner? i am not going to erase it. please feel free to refute
some of the comments. your reply does not get a sticker.
<< <i>There's nothing like retreating to the den on a wintry day, sipping hot chocolate with marshmallows, and reading fc's latest diatribe. >>
All I can say is that we are fortunate to have fc among us setting the record straight. Everything that one needs to know about 21st century numismatics can be learned on ebay. Coin on!
<< <i>oh and longacre. why do you copy my whole post to reply with
a one liner? >>
Because my response was appropriate.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
Now - as to reality....
<< <i>i am learning this guy aint an expert.
The overall rarity of most Charlotte half eagles has changed
nothing has "changed". you were just wrong.
As an example, I estimated in the second edition that 70-80 examples of the 1840-C half eagle existed. My revised estimate, in the third edition, is 80-100.
if you were wrong before why should we think you are right now?
you sold coins pimping them as uber rare and gosh golly, they are
not as rare as you thought eh? shocking. truly. sigh.
(and, yes, I have figured regrades/resubmissions prominently as a factor of total populations from both services)
i am sure you are the source of most of those crack outs eh? this
you are an expert on i am sure. ngc does well for you.
There are changes in the population estimates for EF and AU half eagles because, let’s face it, the EF45 of ten years ago is, in most cases, an AU50 (or higher) today.
hey longacre! they all get stickers too! i cannot grade and you all
mock me! ryk take notice. your hero is trying to tell you something!
I tended to underestimate the low grade coins.
gosh. did he start watching ebay more often? i have said this countless times.
the majority of southern gold is NOT RARE. it is sold on ebay constantly in lower grades. the pops are quite big!
I’ve tried to factor in gradeflation into my estimates and I tend to discount some of the slabbed AU50 or MS60/61 coins as, in my opinion, they do not meet my personal grading standards.
but oh golly gee, you had no problem selling xf45 coins as au53
for the last few years for great profits! same with those low MS
coins! why the change of heart? how is that roll of cac stickers doing
for you?
i have no idea why people listen to this guy for advice. he is a dealer
therefore he has an obvious bias when it comes to these things.
these constant books about gold coinage are quite laugable as they
regurgitate slightly varied info over and over again. anyone who has
studied half eagles over the years knows which are rare and which
are not. sothern gold, for the most part, is not rare. conditionally
rare sure.. but not rare.
but do not let DW's customers know that... they might rethink what
they are paying for an xf45 coin in a ngc au55 holder!
booyah
ugh i am so done commenting on this dw blog crap. waste of effort.
he is the expert and will reel in the fish. >>
but in the dw blog he is admitting all his "mistakes".
one. that he was wrong on the pops.
two. that he sells over graded coins.
three. he just makes this stuff up as he goes along and the high
end collectors just lap it up.
ryk and longacre. your posts have zero content. i wonder why??
you just cut and paste DWs blog posts and then do not comment
on it? is it because you just read and respout the same info without
any critical thought?
why mock ebay? heritage's half eagle offerings are just as bad
at really big prices!
ah the little clique of the coin industry is so fun to mock. you will notice
how they cut and paste my post for posterity while they chime in
with little one liners!
There is an element of hero-worship in all of these Doug Winter posts.
ah, nice to meet someone who can think for themself! kudos to you sir.
<< <i>My home cookin: taking some pictures. >>
DITTO.
Maybe taking pictures of souther gold.
critical thinking type. they need hand holding and advice.
also notice the snootiness of their idea of what collecting is.
a southern gold half eagle sold on ebay, is sniff, not the same
as one bought at auction from la heritage with a side of grey poupon.
sniff.
oh and luster is original surfaces. not crust without luster. two
different things eh?
i could go on and on...
but i won't. high end collectors need to read it in a book to believe
and understand. if it is on an internet forum, sniff, it must be tainted.
you just cut and paste DWs blog posts and then do not comment
on it? is it because you just read and respout the same info without
any critical thought?
I started to type a meaningful rebuttal, but we have been around the block over this before. It's not worth it to me to get into another joust over. Anyway, I have been married long enough to know to just do as I am told.
<< <i>i have a feeling high end southern gold collectors are not the
critical thinking type. they need hand holding and advice.
also notice the snootiness of their idea of what collecting is.
a southern gold half eagle sold on ebay, is sniff, not the same
as one bought at auction from la heritage with a side of grey poupon.
sniff.
oh and luster is original surfaces. not crust without luster. two
different things eh?
i could go on and on...
but i won't. high end collectors need to read it in a book to believe
and understand. if it is on an internet forum, sniff, it must be tainted. >>
I was just thinking the same...
BTW, the riff-raff knows about Grey Poupon, and I ain't gonna tell you which mustard I use.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
I have to bet that this thread turned out somewhat differently than you intended...
<< <i>Longacre:
I have to bet that this thread turned out somewhat differently than you intended...
Perhaps, but just as entertaining.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
<< <i>
<< <i>Longacre:
I have to bet that this thread turned out somewhat differently than you intended...
Perhaps, but just as entertaining.
might look foolish! They have put DW on a pedestal and placed him
as the pinnacle of info on southern gold... and he also sells it!!!!
anyone see the problem here? sorta like cac being the same people
who sell the coins?
tdn just took a shot at me to make my cac comments seem less true.
cac is cementing grade inflation in place to allow investors to believe
something which is not true. xf45 to au53 eh? that is the norm now?
do cac buyers of coins know this and understand it? did you mention
the market is at a peak and is cyclical? a bubble waiting to burst?
i respect people like tomb, 291fifth, perryhall, and others. collectors
who have no bias except the truth as they see it.
just because you own a few expensive coins does not make one "smart" on the subject.
parroting stuff you read out of a book that turns out to be false... does not make one "smart".
plus, if it was not for me, this thread would have gotten zero posts.
someone has to add some spice to this. someone has to say the
emperor has no clothes.
in 10 years time he will once again revise the book to get his slow
C sales back up there!
LOL
<< <i>Even Longacre uses the mustard of the hoi polloi-- Guldens. I take my southern gold, however, only if it passes through the hands of the most exclusive dealers, for dealer provenance is just as important as collector provenance to me. >>
Gulden's??? You gotta be kidding me. Doesn't Mrs L pass the Dean & Deluca on the way to Tiffany's?
<< <i>ah heck. they cannot publically change their minds. otherwise they
might look foolish! They have put DW on a pedestal and placed him
as the pinnacle of info on southern gold... and he also sells it!!!!
anyone see the problem here? sorta like cac being the same people
who sell the coins?
tdn just took a shot at me to make my cac comments seem less true.
cac is cementing grade inflation in place to allow investors to believe
something which is not true. xf45 to au53 eh? that is the norm now?
do cac buyers of coins know this and understand it? did you mention
the market is at a peak and is cyclical? a bubble waiting to burst?
i respect people like tomb, 291fifth, perryhall, and others. collectors
who have no bias except the truth as they see it.
just because you own a few expensive coins does not make one "smart" on the subject.
parroting stuff you read out of a book that turns out to be false... does not make one "smart".
plus, if it was not for me, this thread would have gotten zero posts.
someone has to add some spice to this. someone has to say the
emperor has no clothes.
in 10 years time he will once again revise the book to get his slow
C sales back up there!
LOL >>
You are correct, sir. Books are hazardous to my numismatic health.
<< <i>ah heck. they cannot publically change their minds. otherwise they
might look foolish! They have put DW on a pedestal and placed him
as the pinnacle of info on southern gold... and he also sells it!!!!
anyone see the problem here? sorta like cac being the same people
who sell the coins?
tdn just took a shot at me to make my cac comments seem less true.
cac is cementing grade inflation in place to allow investors to believe
something which is not true. xf45 to au53 eh? that is the norm now?
do cac buyers of coins know this and understand it? did you mention
the market is at a peak and is cyclical? a bubble waiting to burst?
i respect people like tomb, 291fifth, perryhall, and others. collectors
who have no bias except the truth as they see it.
just because you own a few expensive coins does not make one "smart" on the subject.
parroting stuff you read out of a book that turns out to be false... does not make one "smart".
plus, if it was not for me, this thread would have gotten zero posts.
someone has to add some spice to this. someone has to say the
emperor has no clothes.
in 10 years time he will once again revise the book to get his slow
C sales back up there!
LOL >>
I just enjoy giving a virtual tweak of the nose to fc every once in a while.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
Actually, I took a shot at you cuz I think you're a certifiable whackjob & your post was nothing more than another of your rants that should be ignored by anyone with an ounce of common sense.
Other than that, I just love ya!
then how can a expert on southern gold say "an xf45 is now an au53" and
then in the next breath ever be able to sticker a coin in his inventory?
the only whack jobs around here are the ones trying to pull a fast one on
collectors!
ryk,
it appears the experts books you have been reading were wrong. hence
the need to revise them. better to use your own eyes to see that a coin
that is supposed to be rare should not be up for sale in every auction!
just because it is low grade or cleaned does not mean it does not exist. hoho
longacre,
please keep on tweaking! i enjoy it also. i am dumb founded by how collectors
who are supposed to be educated fall for gimmicks to take your money away!
anyway. my point has been made and those who wish to think for themselves
will. the rest will pick up the phone and call an expert. the same expert who
shall sell them a coin in the next breath!
it appears the experts books you have been reading were wrong. hence
the need to revise them. better to use your own eyes to see that a coin
that is supposed to be rare should not be up for sale in every auction!
just because it is low grade or cleaned does not mean it does not exist. hoho
In that case, I will burn the books in the fireplace tonight, rather than ruining some good logs. Thanks for the tip--you may have saved a tree!
He didn't say that. You are mistaken... as usual. Nice rant tho.
tdn, did you not read the blog post?
There are changes in the population estimates for EF and AU half eagles because, let’s face it, the EF45 of ten years ago is, in most cases, an AU50 (or higher) today.
these are the coins he has been selling for the last decade. one year it is a
PQ xf45. the next year it is a pq au50. the next year even higher!
hey. i am not making this up. the expert said it. not me.
<< <i>I like Nance's mustard. I also like whole grain mustard. Somebody should start a poll. >>
PM sent re: mustard
Check out the Southern Gold Society
<< <i>I'll admit that I got some laughs out of reading FC's post. There is an element of hero-worship in all of these Doug Winter posts. >>
As much as I cringe when he goes on his anti-US and conspiracy rants, he's hit the nail on the head here. In my time on the forum, I see the deification of certain coin dealers as the oddest aspect of this place. It's cringe inducing. And it mostly comes from just 2 people. But it seems everwhelming because they post more than anyone else, and it's always the same thing. Anyway, sometimes you know you've hit the nail on the head by the vehemence of the response.
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."