<< <i>Ok tell me then, if someone high up in the Mint tells me that there is legal action being taken against grading companies for this issue where might a collector find this!! >>
On the US Mints Web Site. Read the Hot Item just before the First Strike item. You'll see where the US Mint actually calls the selling of NORFED Liberty Dollars as Legal Tender is against the law. Time and time again the US Mint has stated that certain practices are against Federal Law but in the case of using the term First Strike, they did not.
<< <i>Furthermore "First Strike" being used by any grading company is a money chase, I read comments on here and elsewhere the policy is that you must submit your coins between Period A and Period B to get the label? >>
Yes, First Strike is a money chase but the TPG's aren't the one's making the money. They only get an additional $10 per label. The real money chase is in the collectors that pay premium's for First Strike™ Slabs.
<< <i>If I have a unopened box dated during or before the end of some grading companies time limit on a special label, I can see why this director had this conversation with me. It does seem a Myth. It doesn't make sense other than making more money off of the customer that is not up to date with knowledge in the hobby. Thats a shame. >>
Folks can collect what they want and pay whatever premium they want and there is no shame in it. However, if someone were investing in First Strike coinage with the specific intent of making longterm gains on that coinage, then yes that would be a shame. But it would be no different than making an investment in some stock offering where the investor did not do his/her investigation on that offering to find out if it is a viable investment. Please do not confuse collecting with investing as many do. If you or anybody else is collecting coins as a long term investment with guaranteed profits then you are not a collector but an investor that should be finding out exactly what you are investing in instead of taking someone's word on its value.
<< <i>I have numerous MS/Pr coins modern age that are Perfect in the 70 grade, but why would my coin be less valued if it doesn't have the First Strike label on it? This hurts the hobby people don't you agree. Yaha >>
No. The only thing that hurts the hobby are folks who do not take the time to learn about the hobby and about what they are collecting. I'm sure that your MS/Pr coins are perfect 70's for you but they would not bring perfect 70 money unless they were in perfect 70 slabs. Even then, there will be negotiable differences in what one perfect 70 slab brings against another perfect 70 slab.
If folks are going to collect First Strike™ slabs and pay premiums for those slabs, they had better get a clear definition of what that slab label means and what value it has to them as a collector before paying big premiums on them. If not, then they will certainly be disappointed. >>
"First Strike" is more about the slab than the Coin.
If a Blue ( or Gold or Black. etc ) label was used on the first 1,000 Coins slabbed in a series ( with no other difference than just the color ), I believe you would soon see a premium attached to those slabs.
It's just Dealer/Collector mentality to value what is more limited.
Since the Mint always produces in "batches", it would make sense to designate a "First Strike" category that would include the coins that were among that “first” batch. These coins are the “First Strikes” but are they the cleanest? No, but that is not the point. These coins were the very first strikes for better or worse but that is what they are.
People pay for gimmicks. Someone would pay more money for the last coin out of a set of worn out dies, than for one struck from a near new set if it was listed as such on a holder.
Doesn't make it right or wrong and there is no problem with it. Of course, when they tell you that you should feel the same way as they do about them, then I have problem with it.
Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
<< <i>Someone may correct me if I am wrong but I recall the mint once saying that the order in which coins are released bears no relationship to the order in which they were struck. That is to say, just because you get coins immediately upon release does not mean that the coins were struck any earlier than coin released later. There is no way to tell if a coin is a "first strike." >>
I remember something about this. First Strike means nothing except the amount of money you spend to get one is more.
Since you deal in alot of these new mint products, do you come across an exceptional coin every so often (that should actually grade MS71) or do they all really look the same?
Also, in your profile, your webste goes to another PCGS 404 error page and not your website.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
<< <i>Since the Mint always produces in "batches", it would make sense to designate a "First Strike" category that would include the coins that were among that “first” batch. These coins are the “First Strikes” but are they the cleanest? No, but that is not the point. These coins were the very first strikes for better or worse but that is what they are. >>
I really think the Mint { along with PCGS ) should certify the very first 100 Coins off the presses. Number one would go to the President who would personally autograph the thing. All the Coins would then be auctioned off to the highest bidder.
Proceeds could go to a charity.
Classic Coin nuts need not apply ( for a bidding number that is ).
<< <i>"First Strike" is more about the slab than the Coin.
If a Blue ( or Gold or Black. etc ) label was used on the first 1,000 Coins slabbed in a series ( with no other difference than just the color ), I believe you would soon see a premium attached to those slabs.
It's just Dealer/Collector mentality to value what is more limited. >>
BINGO! We have a winner!
There are folks out there that collect the Early NGC Black slabs and will pay a premium for those slabs with little concern for the coin within the slab. The same holds true eith the PCGS Doily Slabs. Folks just want them because they collect stuff.
Collecting (and paying a premium) for First Strike Slabs has little to do with the coins numismatic value. It has everything to do with the perceived value of the slab on the coin.
We are definitely a strange bunch!
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
how silly, foolish, insane or ridiculous. We collect what
we want , how we want and when we want. If other folks
do not approve, well, so be it. >>
That's the truth. I read back when I was a kid that someone had a scab collection. Now that has always remained the strangest in my mind but I guess to each their own. Just don't ask me to look at it.
<< <i>If I saw this slab at an auction 15 years from now I would be very interested because I would know that it was slabbed in the first 30 days of release. And it hasnt been sent in multiple times for grading. The desire wont be from the so-called First Strike, but from knowing it was only slabbed once in the first 30 days. >>
But what if it is submitted for regrading?? I believe it will get reslabed with FS label if submitted in original slab under regrading service.
The thing on that label that matters to me is the grade opinion - PCGS MS-70. I won't ever seek out an FS designation, and I won't pay a premium for it, but I won't hold it against the coin, either.
Being slabbed within 30 days of being released means very little, since it is possible to have a "FS" coin from the first set of dies on Day 29 that is worn and has poor detail; just as it is possible to have a coin from Die Set #2 from Day 31 which has needle-sharp detail and no "FS" designation.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>I told her I order the coins I want when they first come out to have a chance at 1st strikes. He told me that the mint changes 'Dies' every 2500 strikes >>
<< <i>The director tells me after the federal government finally stops the illegal practices by the grading companies using such first Strikes or any mention of "First" on their labels there will be a huge fine and all coins deem "First Strikes" will be a myth as originally stated in the complaint. >>
Hard to believe people are still arguing over this nonsense. The definition of FS is clear enough. It relates to the first month of shipping, probably on the order of 10% of the annual production? If that means something to the buyer/owner, good for him or her. The whining I hear is from speculators, not collectors, who can't handle any admission of uncertainty of the longer term price potential for them. The idea hasn't been around long enough to substantiate claims for explosive or any growth. Seems to look a lot like fads of the past that have died on the vine. But of course this time is different and the dinosaurs just haven't got a clue, right?
As for the stability of grades, rest assured that something bigger and better will come down the pike and these equivalents of OGHs will wane in popularity, particularly if (dare I say) the 69 vs 70 grading ever is questioned seriously. My personal opinion is that in these years of quick ship to slab have more potential for future desirability in original and complete Mint packaging.
Calling "first strikes" (corporate definition) a "myth" is being awfully nice. Frankly, I've said everything I wanted to say in long-poofed threads on the subject.
Comments
Wondercoin
We would be better served, if it were chicken tenders.
At least then, we could actually use our money for lunch.
Camelot
<< <i>
<< <i>Ok tell me then, if someone high up in the Mint tells me that there is legal action being taken against grading companies for this issue where might a collector find this!! >>
On the US Mints Web Site. Read the Hot Item just before the First Strike item. You'll see where the US Mint actually calls the selling of NORFED Liberty Dollars as Legal Tender is against the law. Time and time again the US Mint has stated that certain practices are against Federal Law but in the case of using the term First Strike, they did not.
<< <i>Furthermore "First Strike" being used by any grading company is a money chase, I read comments on here and elsewhere the policy is that you must submit your coins between Period A and Period B to get the label? >>
Yes, First Strike is a money chase but the TPG's aren't the one's making the money. They only get an additional $10 per label. The real money chase is in the collectors that pay premium's for First Strike™ Slabs.
<< <i>If I have a unopened box dated during or before the end of some grading companies time limit on a special label, I can see why this director had this conversation with me. It does seem a Myth. It doesn't make sense other than making more money off of the customer that is not up to date with knowledge in the hobby. Thats a shame. >>
Folks can collect what they want and pay whatever premium they want and there is no shame in it. However, if someone were investing in First Strike coinage with the specific intent of making longterm gains on that coinage, then yes that would be a shame. But it would be no different than making an investment in some stock offering where the investor did not do his/her investigation on that offering to find out if it is a viable investment. Please do not confuse collecting with investing as many do. If you or anybody else is collecting coins as a long term investment with guaranteed profits then you are not a collector but an investor that should be finding out exactly what you are investing in instead of taking someone's word on its value.
<< <i>I have numerous MS/Pr coins modern age that are Perfect in the 70 grade, but why would my coin be less valued if it doesn't have the First Strike label on it? This hurts the hobby people don't you agree. Yaha >>
No. The only thing that hurts the hobby are folks who do not take the time to learn about the hobby and about what they are collecting. I'm sure that your MS/Pr coins are perfect 70's for you but they would not bring perfect 70 money unless they were in perfect 70 slabs. Even then, there will be negotiable differences in what one perfect 70 slab brings against another perfect 70 slab.
If folks are going to collect First Strike™ slabs and pay premiums for those slabs, they had better get a clear definition of what that slab label means and what value it has to them as a collector before paying big premiums on them. If not, then they will certainly be disappointed. >>
If a Blue ( or Gold or Black. etc ) label was used on the first 1,000 Coins slabbed in a series ( with no other difference than just the color ), I believe you would soon see a premium attached to those slabs.
It's just Dealer/Collector mentality to value what is more limited.
Doesn't make it right or wrong and there is no problem with it. Of course, when they tell you that you should feel the same way as they do about them, then I have problem with it.
buy the bullion- not the damn plastic.
<< <i>Someone may correct me if I am wrong but I recall the mint once saying that the order in which coins are released bears no relationship to the order in which they were struck. That is to say, just because you get coins immediately upon release does not mean that the coins were struck any earlier than coin released later. There is no way to tell if a coin is a "first strike." >>
I remember something about this. First Strike means nothing except the amount of money you spend
to get one is more.
<< <i>RR - You owe one for that edit.
Wondercoin >>
Hi Mitch
Since you deal in alot of these new mint products, do you come across an exceptional coin every so often (that should actually grade MS71) or do they all really look the same?
Also, in your profile, your webste goes to another PCGS 404 error page and not your website.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>Since the Mint always produces in "batches", it would make sense to designate a "First Strike" category that would include the coins that were among that “first” batch. These coins are the “First Strikes” but are they the cleanest? No, but that is not the point. These coins were the very first strikes for better or worse but that is what they are. >>
I really think the Mint { along with PCGS ) should certify the very first 100 Coins off the presses. Number one would go to the President who would personally autograph the thing. All the Coins would then be auctioned off to the highest bidder.
Proceeds could go to a charity.
Classic Coin nuts need not apply ( for a bidding number that is ).
<< <i>"First Strike" is more about the slab than the Coin.
If a Blue ( or Gold or Black. etc ) label was used on the first 1,000 Coins slabbed in a series ( with no other difference than just the color ), I believe you would soon see a premium attached to those slabs.
It's just Dealer/Collector mentality to value what is more limited. >>
BINGO! We have a winner!
There are folks out there that collect the Early NGC Black slabs and will pay a premium for those slabs with little concern for the coin within the slab. The same holds true eith the PCGS Doily Slabs. Folks just want them because they collect stuff.
Collecting (and paying a premium) for First Strike Slabs has little to do with the coins numismatic value. It has everything to do with the perceived value of the slab on the coin.
We are definitely a strange bunch!
The name is LEE!
dinosaur droppings. Collecting is what we do.
we collect what ever gives us pleasure. No matter
how silly, foolish, insane or ridiculous. We collect what
we want , how we want and when we want. If other folks
do not approve, well, so be it.
Camelot
<< <i>Heck I know folks that collect mineralized
dinosaur droppings. Collecting is what we do.
we collect what ever gives us pleasure. No matter
how silly, foolish, insane or ridiculous. We collect what
we want , how we want and when we want. If other folks
do not approve, well, so be it. >>
That's the truth. I read back when I was a kid that someone had a scab collection. Now that has always remained the strangest in my mind but I guess to each their own. Just don't ask me to look at it.
<< <i>If I saw this slab at an auction 15 years from now I would be very interested because I would know that it was slabbed in the first 30 days of release. And it hasnt been sent in multiple times for grading. The desire wont be from the so-called First Strike, but from knowing it was only slabbed once in the first 30 days.
But what if it is submitted for regrading??
I believe it will get reslabed with FS label if submitted in original slab under regrading service.
Being slabbed within 30 days of being released means very little, since it is possible to have a "FS" coin from the first set of dies on Day 29 that is worn and has poor detail; just as it is possible to have a coin from Die Set #2 from Day 31 which has needle-sharp detail and no "FS" designation.
I knew it would happen.
for grading one time, has a value, unto itself, that can
not be denied.
Camelot
<< <i>I told her I order the coins I want when they first come out to have a chance at 1st strikes. He told me that the mint changes 'Dies' every 2500 strikes >>
<< <i>The director tells me after the federal government finally stops the illegal practices by the grading companies using such first Strikes or any mention of "First" on their labels there will be a huge fine and all coins deem "First Strikes" will be a myth as originally stated in the complaint. >>
Russ, NCNE
that legends come from.
Camelot
<< <i>The knowledge that a coin has only been sent in
for grading one time, has a value, unto itself, that can
not be denied. >>
Good point.
As for the stability of grades, rest assured that something bigger and better will come down the pike and these equivalents of OGHs will wane in popularity, particularly if (dare I say) the 69 vs 70 grading ever is questioned seriously. My personal opinion is that in these years of quick ship to slab have more potential for future desirability in original and complete Mint packaging.
NSDR - Life Member
SSDC - Life Member
ANA - Pay As I Go Member
like the added value. If you don't like it, that's also good. No
body has to defend how they feel. IT IS WHAT IT IS..
Camelot
Ed. S.
(EJS)
for grading one time, has a value, unto itself, that can
not be denied. >>
This statement is untrue since I sent in a PCGS First Strike 2006 W MS 69 ASE for regrade to try to get a 70.
Box of 20