What's the deal with VAMS...

DoubleEagle59

I must admit that I am becoming disappointed with collecting Vams...

When I started collecting them, or maybe I should clarify, when I started searching for them, I was energized with the excitement of finding all kinds of Vam varieties. After a year or two of looking at many Morgan dollars here in Canada, I have acquired a fairly good grouping of them.

I have concluded a few facts.....and please correct me if I'm mistaken.

1. if you look hard enough, it seems you can find Vams all over the place. I mean, Vams aren't necessarily rare.

2. some, or most Vams, seem so non-important that it seems to me someone went crazy one night and looked at a million Morgans and noted every little dot, die break, clash mark, rust spot, slight doubling, raised surface, etc.... and noted everything in a book and thus the 'Vam' varieties were born.

Which leads me to my third point...

3. with the large number of Vams for each date, , there seems to be very little monetary reward for them.

Is it all just Hype?

Is it just because Vams are fairly new that the prices haven't taken off?

Am I wrong and are there Vams that command a great deal of price premium? What percentage of the top 100 Vams do command a good price difference? Are the rest just for collectors curiousity and command no added value over their non-Vam varieties?

GoldenEyeNumismatics

Many VAMs really aren't worth anything.

A few are worth a ton.

Many people's interest in them is based on rarity. Some peopl are fascinated about having an R7 variety where the difference from a normal coin is extremely minute. Other people couldn't care less.

TheRegulator

One thing I've learned from these boards is that every Morgan is a VAM.

coinsarefun

I must say that I look in cycles. I look feverishly for VAM'S, insignificant and important ones get burned out and stop. But as they say "you can't stop with just one". I always go back and start searching. I think its a hard habit to break

DoubleEagle59

Many VAMs really aren't worth anything.A few are worth a ton.

I'm beginning to realize this.

Perhaps instead of a Vam book that has a 'million' varieties, there should be a small handbook with only the top ten to maybe twenty (being the only ones that have significant value).

coinkat

I have a different perspective... buy the VAMS that matter and that can be seen and noticed without magnification

Stuart

<< Perhaps instead of a Vam book that has a 'million' varieties, there should be a small handbook with only the top ten to maybe twenty (being the only ones that have significant value). >>

DoubleEagle59: There is a small spiral bound VAM Key Handbook entitled: "The Top 100 Morgan Dollar Varieties: The VAM Keys" by Michael S. Fey and Jeff Oxman.

There are also Top 100 and Hot 50 VAM lists that can be found at web sites such as the following:
VAM Link and VAM World

I hope that this information is helpful to you as a starting point.

dcarr

Technically, every single Morgan and Peace dollar ever made is a "VAM".
Interseting/rare once are worth more, of course.

DMWJR

It's very similar to collecting die varieties and sometimes die states. It is done in many other series, this one just happens to have a special moniker. It's just another way to enjoy Morgan silver dollars.

DoubleEagle59

What percentage of the 'top 100' Vams carry a good premium over their non-Vam counterparts, in ms63 or ms64 grades?

Coxe

VAMs are what they are. Every Morgan or Peace dollar is a known or potentially new find VAM. Every insignificant mark or die scratch does not qualify as a new VAM, contrary to some misconceptions. True, there are some features that do require magnification to detect and appreciate. An EDS 1882-O/S, for instance, fits that and is not only an important VAM but a distinct die state of a distinct die pair.

Premiums on VAMs, like everything else on life, is based on supply and demand or the perception of both of them. Sometimes the supply, like with an 1887 aligator eye or a 1909-S VDB cent, is relatively high but the popularity is so great that the demand dictates a premium. Nearly all of the Top and Hot list coins do have premiums in collectible, problem-free grades. Additionally, like throughout numismatics, rarity is king. Sometimes it takes a little while for the hobby to absorb data and appreciate specific rarity, but it generally does so. Mint mark discrimination did not translate into firm premiums for scarcer branch mint issues as soon as Heaton popularized them in the 19th century. I see us in the same curve up to the plateau of FMV for rare varieties of several series, including Morgan and Peace dollars, currently. In time, the difference between a common mint state 1890-CC and a specific VAM-9A (as an example) will present itself per valuation as much as the difference between an 1889-P and 1889-CC mint state Morgan. Information flows into the hobby and is absorbed positively but not immediately.

Hunting and collecting VAMs, I think, is fun and satisfying. There are a number of approaches to collecting them and the the length of the series and numbers of pieces extant provides a very fertile environment to seriously play at any budgetary level. You simply could not say the same for early large cents.

What is holding back VAMs? My personal opinion is the lack of information and dissemination of that information. We are still learning at an incredible rate. Note that the past few years have resulted in more new finds than the specialty has seen since its advent. We do have wonderful resources, most recently notable is the opening and growth of the vamworld website. It is helping to consolidtae information. A forum member is working on what I expect to be an outstanding Peace dollar book, a notable area of prior reference neglect. I am working on my own book on the Morgan series to pull a lot of data and knowledge accumlated over the past couple decades together. Recently, I've considered how to involve others to make it into an effort of lasting usefulness and to get it to press sooner than later. I think with good references, reliable data, and a two-way market, VAMs (and general variety collecting) will solidify as a strong subspecialty.

Prooflikes didn't take hold and get their somewhat consistent premiums overnight. Some of the longer term dealers and collectors will remember how they were just interesting early strikes with little or no premium at one time. Discussions by respected dealers (notably Wayne Miller and our host of hosts, HRH) really helped get inertia going on that ball. I forget when they started making it into the price guides (but it was before MS64 did). Jeff Oxman, I believe, made the point at the last Long Beach NSDR/SSDC meeting that what holds back many great VAMs from realizing premiums and dealer interest is their lack of listing in price guides such as the redbook and greysheet. I won't hold my breath on the redbook including many, nor even the CDN, but I could see perhaps a quarterly valuation listing of many somewhere like CW. Getting back to prooflikes, note that terminal die states as VAMs are at least as rare, and often much rarer, than those early virgin DMPLs. If there was any area of underappreciation within VAMs I'd suggest focus, that is it. Some of these are rarer than hen's teeth and will eventually be recognized as such with increasing premiums. It may be frustrating being on the ground floor not seeing much happening. Anyone who buys smallcap value stocks goes through this. It takes a lot of patience to wait for the word to get out and the stinking herd to come crashing through the gate.

Coxe

<< <i>What percentage of the 'top 100' Vams carry a good premium over their non-Vam counterparts, in ms63 or ms64 grades? >>



I'll take your question another way. I hunt for VAMs all of the time. I leave many of them on the table as I cherry a bourse. Some of those Top-100 VAMs either don't have enough of a premium and/or they are so common that nobody with any time into the hobby would buy them specifically as VAMs with premiums. You can just as easily cherry one int he grade of your choice yourself. Here is a rough a rough list of those I just don't even bother with and leave for the others in my wake.

1878 VAM-23 in MS, or in PL/DMPL under MS63 -- way more common than people want to believe
1878 VAM-141 under gem -- leave them for others
1878-CC VAM-11 -- not interested in MS, PL and DMPL often pricier than they are worth to me
1880-O VAM-6a -- leave for others
1880-S VAM-8 or VAM-9 -- if they aren't gem PL/DMPL, they aren't terribly interesting
1882-O VAM-7 -- hard to get anyone interested under gem
1884 VAM-3/4 -- got nice ones for myself and lower grades nearly impossible to sell or trade
1884-O VAM-6 -- nobody wants anything under 64DMPL, or at least they shouldn't
1886 VAM-1A -- way too common at or under gem (even PL/DMPL) and not worth the price for 66 or 67
1887 VAM-12/12a -- I don't have time to waste selling aligator eyes to newbies, esp snce I sold an NGC 64 for a fraction of CDN bid
1887-S VAM-2 -- too high of a fraction of this date are this variety, particularly as prooflikes
1891 VAM-2/2b -- got the finest (PCGS 64DMPL) and these cherries are hard to sell at even a modest profit
1891-CC VAM-3 -- no comment necessary
1892-O VAM-5 (formerly VAM-7) -- I have way too many XFs; only pick an AU or (hope one day) an MS
1893 VAM-4 -- see 1884 VAM-3/4
1895-S VAM-4 -- see 1887-S VAM-2
1896 VAM-19 -- way overappreciated; seen up to PCGS 66; I still haven't even bought one for myself; common
1897 VAM-6A -- see 1891 VAM-2
1899-S VAM-7 -- only worthwhile above Ch BU
1900 VAM-11/24 -- very common in all grades; impossible to sell or trade
1900-O VAM-15/15a -- see right above this

I forgot to note in the previous post that what I also think holds back VAMs is the operating level of certain VAM hunters who ONLY cherry and sell, never collecting or buying. We need more of a two-way market and it is there but not at every level.

dwssws

Coxe thanks for your insights! I just collect vams that interest me ( and those i mostly cherry)

DoubleEagle59

Coxe thanks for your insights!

ditto!!

a very nice summary.

BIGJAYVEE

I don't think you can explain it any better.Nice job John.