Full Step Nickels....PCGS and NGC

Bruggs

With PCGS being so very strict now on the criteria for full steps, how does NGC compare? I've got some really tough step dates that 3 or 4 years ago would have made FS at PCGS. A couple of the coins (54-s,53-s,55) have been submitted several times and no go. I think these coins are deserving of the FS designation. I don't have any experience with NGC but would consider submitting to them. Anyone here had any luck with them?
Thanks.
Bruggs

pontiacinf

hey bruggs, have any pics of the no-go's? I would be interested in seeing them. I do not have much experience with NGC,
but PCGS seems inconsistant in their grading of FS jeffs. The only one I can say I really trust in grading early date FS jeffs
is SEGS, and this one statement is about to start an avalanche of responses from the know-it-alls

oldnickelman

oldnickelman

It is about time that PCGS tighened up some more on FS. NGC is usually decent on the steps, but I would say the grades are all over the board and generally high compared to PCGS. Larry at SEGS is not bad, but sometimes is over picky when it comes to small ticks. ANACS used to be the toughest, but with all thier changes it is hard to judge them now. The dates you list are some of the toughest and the graders know that and will make sure they get it right before assigning a FS grade so they don't have to eat it on a warranty
when a member of FSNC pushes the issue.

keets

With PCGS being so very strict now on the criteria for full steps

i would suggest that perhaps PCGS only seems strict now because in the past they have been way too lenient, not even adhering to their own printed criteria for the Full Step designation to be noted on the insert. what it's done is de-value quite a few dates that are more scarce than the gaded numbers indicate. from my lofty perch it all started around 2002, perhaps a bit earlier. that means five plus years of coins which may be questionable to a serious collector of the series. it also means that many collectors may be mis attributing their coins, thinking they have FS when in fact they don't.

tmcsr69

NGC has a little more flexiblity in that they offer a 5FS and 6FS designations so those coins that are almost there also get a title.

nicknut12

I agree with Mr. Keets.

Ditto, Ditto, Ditto.

My experience with NGC full step grading is that
they are fairly strict on grading the steps. But their
MS grading can be a bit lax.

Which is why the NGC full step resale value is low.
And also because the NGC registry following has
fewer collectors than PCGS has.

Regards, Steve K.

CarlWohlforth

NGC used to use the plain FS designation. They would only give it out to coins with 6 full steps. PCGS hasn't changed in their stated policy, they will give the FS designation to coins with 5 full steps. Later NGC will give otu 5FS or 6FS designations.

I recently passed on a PCGS FS coin where the steps had so many ticks, nicks and hits it looked like the Texas Chainsaw Massacre (or almost like that).

Many years ago I bought several NGC MS 67 FS coins. A good percentage of them crossed at the grade. That was before the 5FS and 6FS distinction was made. It was funny because they brought me a huge profit in the PCGS holder even though the PCGS strike standards were looser. I think they crossed because the strike was so good the coins really did look like superb gems.

Anyway if you can find old high grade NGC nickels (before the 5FS/6FS distinction) that have 5 FS but are not designated you have a serious upgrade potential! And if you find one like that and it is dated 1956-D please remember me and sell it to me at a big discount.

Edscoin

I agree SEGS is the best at grading Steps. If they could just learn how to grade the rest of the coin they would be alright, but I don't think that will ever happen. NGC is very good on the steps but usually overgrade the coin by 1 point. Old ANACS is good with the steps and grading. Don't know about New ANACS because I can't bring myself to look at them new slabs. And I would Never buy a PCGS Full Step coin without seeing it in hand. As per what KEETS said.

leothelyon

The fact that ANACS has certified only two 6 step 1950-D examples to NGC's 44, I would definitely question whether NgC is getting it right! That's 2 nickels out of the 700+ 5 steppers ANACS have certified. NGC has certified 44 6 steppers out of the 240 nickels they have designated as having full steps! Percentage-wise NGC hands out 64X the number of 6 steppers than ANACS; .183333 % to ANACS .0028 %!
Many other cases can be made for many dates. Just where did all those 6 steppers come from? Ngc's inability to grade coins PERIOD!

What was your question again?


Leo

a039

Look at the pops for 51 S between NGC and PCGS for Full Steps, that should tell you everything.

leothelyon

Anyway if you can find old high grade NGC nickels (before the 5FS/6FS distinction) that have 5 FS but are not designated you have a serious upgrade potential!

When was that? The early 1990's? If it was, I had no luck whatsoever over the past 16+ years in adding anything in a nGC holder except for a few proofs but that was it.


Leo

leothelyon

<< <i>Look at the pops for 51 S between NGC and PCGS for Full Steps, that should tell you everything. >>



ANACS and PCGS have graded roughly 60 FS nickels each to NGC's 1 coin! What's going on with that? Nobody is sending their FS nickels to NGC! At least for that date anyway but there are many other dates collectors have chosen not to entrust to NGc. Why?


Leo


Edited to add! End of thread!

Edscoin

<< <i>The fact that ANACS has certified only two 6 step 1950-D examples to NGC's 44, I would definitely question whether NgC is getting it right! That's 2 nickels out of the 700+ 5 steppers ANACS have certified. NGC has certified 44 6 steppers out of the 240 nickels they have designated as having full steps! Percentage-wise NGC hands out 64X the number of 6 steppers than ANACS; .183333 % to ANACS .0028 %!
Many other cases can be made for many dates. Just where did all those 6 steppers come from? Ngc's inability to grade coins PERIOD!

What was your question again?


Leo >>


Leo, I know you have looked at a lot of Nickels. So may I ask how many of the 44 NGC 6 step 50-d's have you seen in hand that were not 6 Full Steps?

clackamas

<< <i>

<< <i>Look at the pops for 51 S between NGC and PCGS for Full Steps, that should tell you everything. >>



ANACS and PCGS have graded roughly 60 FS nickels each to NGC's 1 coin! What's going on with that? Nobody is sending their FS nickels to NGC! At least for that date anyway but there are many other dates collectors have chosen not to entrust to NGc. Why?
! >>



Because you have to be brain dead to get a very valuable coin graded by NGC vs PCGS.

leothelyon

<< <i>

<< <i>The fact that ANACS has certified only two 6 step 1950-D examples to NGC's 44, I would definitely question whether NgC is getting it right! That's 2 nickels out of the 700+ 5 steppers ANACS have certified. NGC has certified 44 6 steppers out of the 240 nickels they have designated as having full steps! Percentage-wise NGC hands out 64X the number of 6 steppers than ANACS; .183333 % to ANACS .0028 %!
Many other cases can be made for many dates. Just where did all those 6 steppers come from? Ngc's inability to grade coins PERIOD!

What was your question again?


Leo >>


Leo, I know you have looked at a lot of Nickels. So may I ask how many of the 44 NGC 6 step 50-d's have you seen in hand that were not 6 Full Steps? >>



I haven't seen any slabbed NGC 6 step 50-d's to make that determination. More folks whom I have asked have said they have seen them, have agreed with me, they were not 6 full steppers. I also had one individual say that he had a number of them slabbed and that they were 6FS. I would certainly welcome anyone who has them to give their symposiums on those steps. Also please note; no-one with a NGC registry set has one listed. Futhermore, while NgC has graded 3X the number of 5FS to 6FS nickels in MS66, 102 to 34, why is the 5FS worth 4X the points of a 6FS? I just don't get it with Ngc! If it's a misprint, they need to correct it. They need to correct a few others as well.
Hopefully I have answered your question but turning the table, have you seen them?

Leo

nicknut12

"Because you have to be brain dead to get a very valuable coin graded by NGC vs PCGS. "


The NGC full step slabs sell for very little, because there is little market support.
Fewer collectors over at NGC and the MS grading is a little sloppy.

How many of these PCGS full step slabs sell for any real money in PCGS-64FS?

If NGC grades just 1 grade looser than PCGS, then the value should be?

NGC seems to do a brisk business in classic coinage. Even though it is
generally accepted that their grading is a half point looser.

Regards, Steve K.

FullStepJeffs

<< <i>With PCGS being so very strict now on the criteria for full steps

i would suggest that perhaps PCGS only seems strict now because in the past they have been way too lenient, not even adhering to their own printed criteria for the Full Step designation to be noted on the insert. what it's done is de-value quite a few dates that are more scarce than the gaded numbers indicate. from my lofty perch it all started around 2002, perhaps a bit earlier. that means five plus years of coins which may be questionable to a serious collector of the series. it also means that many collectors may be mis attributing their coins, thinking they have FS when in fact they don't. >>






Steve

a039

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>Look at the pops for 51 S between NGC and PCGS for Full Steps, that should tell you everything. >>



ANACS and PCGS have graded roughly 60 FS nickels each to NGC's 1 coin! What's going on with that? Nobody is sending their FS nickels to NGC! At least for that date anyway but there are many other dates collectors have chosen not to entrust to NGc. Why?
! >>



Because you have to be brain dead to get a very valuable coin graded by NGC vs PCGS. >>



Drink the kool-aid my friend!

leothelyon

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>The fact that ANACS has certified only two 6 step 1950-D examples to NGC's 44, I would definitely question whether NgC is getting it right! That's 2 nickels out of the 700+ 5 steppers ANACS have certified. NGC has certified 44 6 steppers out of the 240 nickels they have designated as having full steps! Percentage-wise NGC hands out 64X the number of 6 steppers than ANACS; .183333 % to ANACS .0028 %!
Many other cases can be made for many dates. Just where did all those 6 steppers come from? Ngc's inability to grade coins PERIOD!

What was your question again?


Leo >>


Leo, I know you have looked at a lot of Nickels. So may I ask how many of the 44 NGC 6 step 50-d's have you seen in hand that were not 6 Full Steps? >>



I haven't seen any slabbed NGC 6 step 50-d's to make that determination. More folks whom I have asked have said they have seen them, have agreed with me, they were not 6 full steppers. I also had one individual say that he had a number of them slabbed and that they were 6FS. I would certainly welcome anyone who has them to give their symposiums on those steps. Also please note; no-one with a NGC registry set has one listed. Futhermore, while NgC has graded 3X the number of 5FS to 6FS nickels in MS66, 102 to 34, why is the 5FS worth 4X the points of a 6FS? I just don't get it with Ngc! If it's a misprint, they need to correct it. They need to correct a few others as well.
Hopefully I have answered your question but turning the table, have you seen them?

Leo >>




Upon further research, the Teletrade and Heritage archives don't show one single NGC 6 step 1950-D to have ever been auctioned off. You would think that at least one of the 44 would have made it to the auction block over the course of 11+ years!


Leo

stephunter

I agree that Ngc is less consistant about grading uncirculated Jeffersons nickels, but in my opinion they are as strict as any third party grading service on steps.

leothelyon

Here's an example! I got a chuckle out of this when I read through the auction. Only 10? out of 163 coins they've graded. That's 1 every 16 coin submissions receiving a MS67 grade. And PCGS hasn't graded any? Is there any wonder? Folks, when and if ever this coin is located with MS67 qualities........


Leon

nicknut12

Leo.

I believe NGC went thru a phase back in the very
early 90's where they were grading any Jefferson
with any eye appeal as MS-67.

It was a hotly collected MS-67 craze at the time.

Jeffersons were other wise considered useless
junk at the time.

Those slabs are still around, hav'nt gone anywhere.

Regards, Steve.

leothelyon

<< <i>Leo.

I believe NGC went thru a phase back in the very
early 90's where they were grading any Jefferson
with any eye appeal as MS-67.

It was a hotly collected MS-67 craze at the time.

Jeffersons were other wise considered useless
junk at the time.

Those slabs are still around, hav'nt gone anywhere.

Regards, Steve. >>




I was thinking that everyone had sent their best coins to NGc!

But I see your point.


Leo

nicknut12

Leo.

As I recall NGC was taking large quantities of coins
(original rolls) and charging a piece rate for the
quantities and another rate for the MS-67 slabs returned.
Either they were not grading full steppers or they were just grading
the six steppers only at the time.

Yes they probably still do this, but as I recall, it was
somewheres around 1990 when they first started doing it.

It was a very big deal at the time, a lot of MS-67 slabs
flooded on to the market. I remember going to some of the
larger shows and seeing partial nickel roll sets for sale on the bourse
floors, which of course were the rejects.

I remember hearing talk of the large revenue stream it
provided for NGC, etc.

Regards, Steve K.