OUR MPL COLLECTION STORIES

Steve

It's a snowy day in Connecticut and I really enjoy reading about matte proof Lincoln cent experiences from the many posters on this forum. I thought it might be interesting to some of you if I relate how I aquired my 9 coins from a strictly collectors point of view.

During the early 1990's (1991-1993) I made a concentrated effort to get the mattes. I was well aware of Albrecht's booklet discribing the diagnostics for the coins. I also realized that in order to be comfortable I was getting REAL MPL's I better purchase ONLY certified examples. And so the following were purchased:
1909: 64RB in NGC holder
1910: 65RB in NGC holder
1911: 64RB in PCGS holder
1912: 64RB in PCGS holder
1913: 63RB in PCGS holder
1914: 64RB in PCGS holder
1915: 62RB in ANACS holder
1916: 64RB in PCGS holder

As I aquired each one I did something I would NEVER do today. I cracked each one out of the slab and put it into one of my Capital Plastics holders! I still remember using a screw driver and a hammer in my garage workplace to do the job.

By 1997 I began to realize that if I wanted to protect the value of my Lincoln cent collection I had better have all my most valuable coins slabbed. I joined the PCGS collectors club at the New York City ANA show in 1997 and then over the next year or so sent each of the 8 MPL's to PCGS. Thankfully, each was slabbed again with the 1913 upgrading from 63RB to 64RD and the 1915 upgrading from 62RB to 63RB. The other six held their same grade and color designation.

For 8 long years I was searching to aquire an example of the 1909VDB at a price within my budget. I soon realized that the only way I could get one, slabbed by a major TPG was via auction. No slabbed 1909VDB's were advertised by any dealer within a price I was able to afford. Finally, in 2002 I saw one which Heritage was auctioning at the CSNS Columbus, Ohio show. It was in an ANACS 63RB holder and had a carbon spot over Lincolns head. I've related this story before, but bottom line is I won the coin for $1,955 "with the juice". When I got the coin in hand the first thing I did was check for the 3 key diagnostics. When I saw them, suddenly that small carbon spot meant nothing to me. I owned a true rarity. My next effort was to try and convince PCGS to cross my coin into their slab.
I submitted with instructions that I would accept any proof 60 or above grade. They returned the coin in its ANACS holder. I was very disappointed. I contacted PCGS again and learned that they had not read my instructions correctly. They WOULD cross the coin at proof 60 or above, but would not tell me what grade. I sent the coin back to PCGS and they gave me the 61RB grade which remains today as the lowest grade for this coin that PCGS has certified. That doesn't bother me and I'd bet it wouldn't bother a lot of you IF you could aquire one of these rarities.

In the five years since I completed my MPL collection I have seen the value of the nine coins jump significantly to a point that they are now valued at over 250% more (retail-PCGS )than what I paid for them. I fully expect this increased value to continue to grow in the future because of the fact more collectors realize their rarity and WANT to own them.

If any of you want to relate your story about these great coins I'm sure we would all like to hear it.

Steve

BWRC

Neat story Steve, congrats on completing your set years ago!

ahooka454

wow what a nice story about the mattes.

i started in coins about 4-5 years ago with just reading books. lots of books. i set my sights on the lincoln cent series as a main fielf of intrest. i accuired my first slabbed coin about 6 months ago, a pcgs ms65 rd 1909svdb. As i was searching for my next coin on the list, a pcgs ms64 rb 1914-D, i thought nice coin, but always there. I remembered a few years earlier at Baltimore my dad saying he wished he had a set of the matte. He said one day those things will be hott. i did listen to what he was saying and am now a seriouos matte hound. since my first purchase of a 1912 pcgs pr64 br was alll it needed to start a monster.
i next picked up a really nice 1909 pcgs pr 63 rb.its more red than brown with orange highlights. also nothing limiting the grade,as it resides in a old green holder.
since meeting a few key people here, and they know who they are, i have i think went from a guy looking to get in early on these mattes to a guy that cant sleep because he cant stop thinking of them. i really think about them all day. all my other series are suffering but i could care less because these lil guys drive me crazy!

i think everyone should just give theirs to me for $100.

this i think is the real lincoln set

curly

OK brothers, here's my story and I'm stickin' to it:

I've been a coin collector since 1964 but the only set I ever completed was a set of Franklin halves that I picked out of mint sets. Don't ask me why mint sets, I don't know. I still have them in a Capitol Plastics set mounted to a bedroom wall.

In the 70s, I started working with Dale Williams building a set of commemoratives. We got about 90% done before I lost interest and sold them in a Bowers and Ruddy auction. After that I just bounced around...Morgans, Walking Libertys, even 20th century key dates. I would get on the computer and buy anything that struck my fancy. There was no rhyme or reason to it.

I retired in 2005 and now I was spending a lot more time looking for coins to buy and I realized that my collecting habits needed some structure. I needed a short set to match my attention span. I wanted something with a "wow factor"...low mintages, short set, and in my price range.

I narrowed my choices down to matte proof Buffalos or matte proof Lincolns. Since Lincolns had the lower surviving numbers and were fairly cheap, I chose them.

Back to the computer I go, hunting MPLs. I noticed one dealer who seemed to sell a lot of MPLs was Brian Wagner Rare Coins. One day I saw a beautiful 1916 on Brian's site with a hold on it. I e-mailed him and told him that if the deal fell through I would like to have next refusal on it. He wired back and said that he didn't think the deal would fall apart ( by the way, that coin is on the cohodk sig. line ). I guess I was out again.

Brian then called me and we talked about what it was that I wanted to do. After gently probing me to see how far I was willing to go to accomplish a nice set, Brian suggested working with me in building a nice registry set. That was fine by me and Brian has been a godsend for my terrible collecting habits. Together with my rapidly shrinking checkbook and Brian's outstanding eye for quality, we have stayed focused on our target....the best set possible in non red MPLs. I couldn't afford to keep all the MPLs that came my way, so as a better one come along, I would have to trade in one ( or two ) of the ones I already had. That always hurt. Brothers, I returned some beautiful MPLs.

Now, lets talk about the "big one", the VDB. When Brian finally got one, he told me that he had to be fair to all his customers and the only way to do it was to auction it off. That way, everyone had an equal chance. One day, at a family dinner, I told my daughters that I was going to bid $40,000 on a penny. They asked me if I was sure that I wanted to do that and I began to doubt myself. After they left, I told my wife that I would submit a lower bid. She told me that I would do no such thing and that I should increase my bid to $50,000! Well now!!! After that I decided to raise my bid to $42,500 and it's a good thing I did as the next highest bid was $40,001!!!!Can you imagine losing that coin by a dollar? I would have been sick.

Things have started to slow down as the coins I now need are getting harder and harder to find and I need something to stay focused on so
I'm going to turn to another short set to build. Nope, it won't be the matte proof Buffalos, not yet anyway. Starting in Janurary, I'm going to collect Flying Eagle cents. It won't be a set that's as intoxicating as I think my MPLs are, but it'll be a complete set.

Finally, a few words of advice to anyone wanting to build a nice set of anything. Get connected and stay connected. Believe me, you don't need heavy pockets to do that. That way, you have a dealer at the coin shows who knows what you want looking out for you. It's a great ego trip having a dealer calling you from a show about a coin. As a matter of fact, Brian will be calling me from the FUN show to tell me how those MPLs sold in the auction ( especially the VDB). Wanna get in on that kind of action? It's easy and it's free. All you have to do is get hooked up.

Stay focused to the job at hand. Whatever set you're working on, stay with it. You'll be glad you did when it's over.

Plus you get to meet a lot of people. I really enjoyed going to Milwaukee last August and quaffing beers with major coin dealers ( who shall remain anonymous ). Me, a retired power plant operator, throwing down beers with the brothers and talking coins. What's better than that?

LeeG

Great stories, thanks for sharing!!!!

ahooka454

curly,
i must say the more i read about you the more i like. you seem to be very relaxed with your sets, as i should be, but am not. yet.


i would have liked to have gone to milw. but i was elbow deep fixing the 454 on my baja on lake erie.errr


the sacrifices we make to have fun.
also sounds like your wife with the $50,000 bid is on board. wish mine was.

BWRC

curly,

Thanks for the nice words you said about me in your MPL collection story post.

I can say that you have made 2007 a better year for me. First of all, I think we have had alot of fun doing the MPL "thing" and congrats on building a fine set of coins. Getting to meet you in Milwaukee was a blast. Ok, I confess, I was one of the dealers who tipped a few glasses with you. And best of all, I made another friend this year. Thanks for everything!

WaterSport

I posted my story in the other toned thread. But what we NEED is a MPL Picture!

etexmike

I venture over here to the Registry Forum fairly often just to read posts like this one.

Great stories guys. I wish I had a MPL story to relate. Maybe some day.

-------------

etexmike

oreville

I do not collect MPL's but it is great reading as well as great coins.

Congrats all of you!

lasvegasteddy

my lil story maybe meek so to say,
after stumbling back into coin collecting some 2 years ago i progressively fumbled around.then in july 07 brian had put a 13 matty on the bst board.upon receiving that first matty something took over me as if like i am finally doing something right with my lil collection.
sure enough that 13 somehow or another just over shadowed anything else sitting next to it..."kinda like a lil piece of national treasure".well as i write now i'm on matty #4
i'll never afford the vdb or 16 unless by some grace of god i can cherry pick one as unc...lol i still dream but do hope oneday at least to have account as finding one matty in the raw as unc even if not the vdb or 16.i did score a ms64rb fs12 09vdb ddo in active searching
i do attribute what that first matty brought on to my acquiring a 09 proof injun too.a steal i thought as a ngc pf64brn for $175 delivered but anyways my lil matty-pack is as follows
1910...icg pr63 brn----thanks to northeast
1910...ngc pf62 brn----thanks to dave
1913...pcgspr64brn----thanks to brian
1914...pcgs pr64rb-----thanks to paul

ahooka454

teddy,
funny how the mattes take over ya huh? same with me, I was lucky enough to grap a 1912 pcgs 64 br in oct. and I can not think of anything else since.
good story.

lasvegasteddy

hey ahooka,
it can be worse as not discussed in this "mpl" thread is the whole 64' sms coinage...which is a lil pass to ya here...but to have a 64 sms reside by matty's would only be icing upon the cake and they can be had less then the 09 vdb matty to boot.incase you haven't looked into those yet...;-)

ahooka454

i have and agree completely. once the 1909vdb is no doubt the real king of the lincoln cents, i think anyway. i have to have one. id give up my 09 gem svdb or my 32-d/s wash. anything but the other mattes. i must get the 1909 vdb. thats my 1933 double eagle. the 64 sms coins are awsome too and will be included in my set someday...

BWRC

1909VDB story!

Back in 1993 I was co-owner of Eagle Eye rare coins. We were known in our early going as the Flying Eagle and Indian Head cent guys because my partner Rick Snow had wrote a book on the series in 1992.

I was strolling the aisles at one of our first couple of shows and a dealer said, "hey Brian I"ve got something to show you" I went over and he said I know you guys do Indians heads but would you consider a proof Lincoln cent?. He said, "its the rare 1909 VDB!!" He handed me the coin, It was a golden red color and the holder was PCGS and the grade said PR65RED. I said, "What are you asking for the coin"? the dealer quoted me $3,500, we negotiated back and forth and finally I brought out the check book and wrote him a check for $3,300. Rick and I quickly flipped the coin for a $500 profit. Oh, those were the days!!

ahooka454

hey brian,

any chance ya got another 09vdb matte pcgs 65 red for $3800? if so ill take 3 please... good story.

MarkJude

Those are great stories -

I've never collected the matte proofs but they are very attractive and maybe something to consider -

Thanks for sharing -

Mark

TimListon

So it's a blowoff day at work and I thought I'd tell my story. I'll try to be brief.

First let me say that I too am a Buckeye, born, raised and still live in the Cleveland area. I did spend nine years in Chicago, six attending Northwestern so I can't say I'm a diehard OSU fan. But....

Like many I started collecting as a kid, my father got me interested. One day while in college I took a really close look at a 1918-D Buffalo he gave me years earlier, and discovered it was the overdate. I needed the money so I sold it, a nice original G6, for around $350 I think. My dad died three days after the Waco fire/fiasco. I'd pay $20,000 to have that coin back....

As for the mattes, here's how I got started. I got the coin bug again in the early 90's when my business got good and I finally had some money. One day the ANA auction catalog arrived in the mail, that was back in the day when the four auction houses would get together and auction off 500 lots each.

Get this. Silvertowne had one of the auctions and they must have had 30 matte proofs, all in old ANA holders, including a couple VDBs. Leon said they came from an old hoard. I don't think PCGS was in business yet. I drove to Chicago and bought about half of them, including a VDB graded ANA 65RB for just a tad over $1000 I think. I got a lot of really nice coins that day. Spent about $6000 total I think. Many I eventually crossed to PCGS with no downgrades and a handful of upgrades. Old holders all.

With what I then had, and with mattes being cheap, I decided to build three complete sets. One near red, one medium red-brown, and one colorful red-brown. I couldn't afford full red and felt the RB's were bargains. So I attended a lot of the major shows, this again back in the early-mid 90's, going as far as Pasadena to assemble these sets.

And I succeeded. At one point in the mid 90's I owned three complete matte proof cent sets. One near red in ANA holders, one medium red-brown in PCGS, one colorful red-brown in PCGS holders. All were at least 65RB, and most of the “easier” ones were 66RB. Not a dog in the bunch and the sets were really well-matched. Joe O'Connor helped me obtain some of the mattes from auctions I was not able to attend. There is nobody better than Joe, in my opinion. He has a great eye, If a coin wasn't right, he said so and we passed, even though he could have made some bucks by buying it for me. Thanks Joe!

I sold the near red set in the late 90's. I sold the medium red-brown set last year to Dan Close. Of course I wish I had those sets still, especially with the most recent run-up, but oh well. The crown jewel, my colorful set, is still in my possession. I paid about $12,000 total for that set, and have been offered $100,000 for it a couple of times. So I'm not really upset about the coins I sold.

With that set, all colorful knockouts in old holders (the 1912 is Eliasberg pedigreed) and having been assembled a long time ago, the set is unique, not just in MPL circles but in any denomination. And I feel like that set has played a part in popularizing the mattes and the colorful ones in particular. I get a lot of satisfaction from that and I have enjoyed the recent flurry of interest in MPLs generally.

That's my story. Thanks all.

WaterSport

Have you ever considered an entire collection regarde submission, it could be interesting. I think Curly did this for some Gold once.

WS

Steve

Tim, thank you for adding your story to this thread. I've been inspired by your long time dedication to MPL's. Each of your posts is interesting to read. The fact that the set you sold to Dan Close went for over $83,000 at auction this year speaks volumes to the quality of the MPL's you aquired. Happy Holidays. Steve

TimListon

Steve - Not all of the coins Dan sold were once my coins. I sold Dan nine coins, all kind of a medium RB and in RB holders, all but the VDB were 66s. He had many others at the time, mostly RD I think. Of the nine coins he sold earlier this year, six were in RD holders, including the VDB. And three were 65s. So honestly I don't know....

WaterSport – One, I would hate to bust those coins out of their old holders especially since they are all in old holders. Two, there's the issue of handling. Three, the set is already highly-graded, by and large. What I really would like is some pictures....

ahooka454

wow tim,


id be content with a full 9 in a 64-63 br. what a sight all three sets must have been. very cool story. i hope one day my set will recieve comments like this.



adam

66RB

<< <i>Steve - Not all of the coins Dan sold were once my coins. I sold Dan nine coins, all kind of a medium RB and in RB holders, all but the VDB were 66s. He had many others at the time, mostly RD I think. Of the nine coins he sold earlier this year, six were in RD holders, including the VDB. And three were 65s. So honestly I don't know....

WaterSport – One, I would hate to bust those coins out of their old holders especially since they are all in old holders. Two, there's the issue of handling. Three, the set is already highly-graded, by and large. What I really would like is some pictures.... >>



Hey Tim, Did you know that forum member mgoodm3 will photograph your coins for you? He does some outstanding work, just as good, if not better than Trueview, imho of course

ahooka454

Well fellas, my story just took a turn for the better.

I was building my set in the grade range from 63 + Br/Rb. I have made some good buys for a newbie I think and have found the guidance of some very helpfull people here on the boards. I was going for lower graded coins that were choice for the grade, this I think has changed. I will syill be looking for choice for the grade coins but I think after my last conversation with the voice of reason, I will hunt down and accuire 64-65+ Br/Rb. As any matte guy knows this does change the playing field for me quite a bit.

Just like alot of you other matte guys I have been blessed with the help of Brian Wagner. I have never been more impressed by a dealers love for what he collects/sells.
I know am looking at a total of 6 coins in my set very soon.

I think this series will keep me intrested for along time to come...



Thanks to all of you and to Brian for helping me really fuel this passion,


Warmest regards and A Happy New Year, Adam

Grasshopper

Steve-

I am sorry in advance for the length of this post. This will be the last long one, I promise. It seems that so many people can see this post, and I'd like to use it to make a point as the new guy in the group.

I'm glad I found your story. That is amazing about breaking out those coins! We all start out pretty naive, and learn as we go in this world. Sometimes it even works for us!

The one thing that amazes me about collecting is the stories behind the collections. As you recognized by my explanation of why I started my set, which is the story I described at my Blake Acre Matte set at http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/publishedset.aspx?s=41931&ac=1, everyone has a real story to share. Brian Wagner, ironically enough, comes up in many spots in the post-string. I say that, as recently Brian did me a favor and looked at a group of raw Lincolns that I acquired from my father after he died, and Brian (who did not know how the coins came to me) was able to confirm that the raw coins were all uncirculated and in one case, colorful, mint state Lincoln Cents. They were NOT matte proofs. But the beauty of the story is that my father (naively, perhaps) always thought the coins were proofs, because he had purchased them from a man who had told him as much back in the early 1980s. So while I was hoping the coins were genuine proofs, they are what they are: Nice mint state coins.

But unlike the dealer who sold the coins to my father under false pretenses, the coins that Brian is now helping me assemble, and my dedication of the collection to my father on the site, are all genuine. Just like you and your set...

So I say thank you on a couple of theme points in your story, and this entire string that bear elaboration:

1) For pointing out that 'genuine' is worth more then it may appear on the surface;
2) Value to anyone, for anything, is based on something being 'genuine';
3) 'Genuine' applies to coins AND people.

So I am, like many of the collectors in this Forum and elsewhere, have and still are recognizing the value of a 'genuine' individual named Brian Wagner. I owe him for helping me to find the real thing in honoring my father, and I suspect many of us owe him a debt of gratitude as well.

This is not a 'stroke-fest'. I believe that Brian has very quietly earned this distinction and recognition from all of us he has helped through his expertise and integrity. By the way, I believe that Brian Wagner, being a Matte Proof Lincoln expert, should write a Matte proof Lincoln book, as he is a true expert in the field.

Can my fellow collectors all give Brian Wagner our collective thoughts as to whether this is a good idea, either publically or privately? Would we all contribute to him, and help him with antidotes, opinions, stories, photos, etc?. I'll bet he would give us a 'credit' in the book for doing so!

Sincerely,
Duane Blake

WaterSport

Hey, writing a book is no easy task, trying to do it while traveling back and forth from shows would be a challenge. So Brian, you going to do it?

WS

Steve

I thought it appropriate to change the title of this old thread to be more in line with the content. Steve

Grasshopper

Sure! - I'm all over the place

Grasshopper

So Brian - can we twist your arm?? It is a big task, but the good news it's a small series (only 9 coins), and we could start with a magazine article to get started. And you are certainly to man for the job. That 1914 post from last night alone could be an entire magizine article! With the group's help, I'll bet we could compile a mag article in a couple of months, tops. If you did no more then that, the numismatic community would surely benefit. But I want a group consensus here!!!

Thank you, WS. Curly, what do you say?

Steve

Duane,
As you review some older threads you will find lots of great information that could go into a MPL book with proper credit. Take this diagnostic thread by Paul which was followed up by other dates here. Steve

Grasshopper

Thanks, Steve-

Wow! Behind the curve, but catching up.

I think we may be able to help our Matte Expert compile?

What say ye?

Duane