What is a fair buy-back price?

Nysoto

I know there is a lot of if's and's but's, so I will make it simple: A customer who does light to moderate business with the dealer, for two coins (not bullion) held for one year, the market has been flat for these coins during the year, the price paid was $500 and $3000 for each of the coins, and there is a fairly large market for the coins (not thinly traded).

What is a "fair" buy-back price, in terms of percentage of original purchase price? Why?

Also, should there be some credit given for previous business, or should this not infuence the offer?

I try to buy coins for the long term, but most of us make some mistakes or change direction sometimes. At best, I have been paid 100% (in a flat market, more or less with market changes), the 100% usually included credit toward purchases. My worst offer was "400-450" for a slabbed coin that I paid $675, and they also wanted to see the coin! This was also from a well known auction firm (though it was an outright purchase). Fortunately I sold the coin elsewhere for about what I paid. I have not run into an instance where the dealer refused to purchase the coin back.

Of course, there are many routes available for selling coins, but selling straight back to the dealer may be the fastest and most convienent.

Rampage

I've heard people say 10% back of what was paid, and I've heard 20% back of what was paid. I think it depends on the coin and the demand, etc.

rec78

doh

Only held for a year in a relatively flat market...you'd be doing well to get back 80-90% of what you paid. You'd probably do better on the BST or eBay...

foodude

For situations where sales taxes are applicable, don't forget to factor thae tax out of the final price in analyzing a % buyback.

Coinlearner

There are alot of..depends on this and that. In general terms I might buy back at what client paid, for possible future business.Or 10% back on the 3000 and 20% on the 500 one.

roadrunner

I must have had lousy B&M shops when growing up. Not one of them wanted anything back they ever sold. There was always a reason why this wasn't the right time, cash is tight, that's not my coin is it?, and a host of other excuses. Basically, I tossed off all my local B&M shops in the early 1980's and moved on to better places.

Today, I don't expect my local shops to want their stuff back and as a rule I can always sell it for more elsewhere (95% of the time).

roadrunner

BlindedByEgo

I've never used a guaranteed buyback as criteria for buying a coin from a dealer, but from what I have heard and seen here, 85 to 90% of purchase seems to be common.

commoncents05

Depends on what it is. The seller may not even be interested in buying it back.

-Paul

TomB

I don't know that someone can really complain if they get an 85-90% buyback offer.

tydye

I used to know one dealer (he is retired now) that had a guaranteed minimum 80% buyback policy one year from date of purchase. I thought that was pretty fair

mozin

I believe selling dealers that offer buy backs at the time of the sale are simply blowing smoke. It means absolutely nothing. When the time comes for the buy back, they will offer anything they want, no matter what was originally paid. Coin dealers are in business to take money from the collectors, and that is all they do.

In my opinion, one year later in a flat market, the buy back dealer should pay at least 90% on coins that are easy to move. Even common stuff should bring at least 80%. Yes, consideration should be made for regular good customers.

Nearly every coin I bought from B&M coin dealers over 40 years, I have sold. None were bought in the last dozen years. Hardly any were acceptable to the grading services. None were worth keeping. Don't think it is necessary for me to state what I think about most brick and mortar dealers.

tightbudget

Depends. I'd say 75-80% on common modern stuff and up to 90-95% on better stuff (key dates, etc.)

The best I've done is $165 for a coin I spent $168. There was a 14 hour gap between the purchase and selling times.

Mowgli

My main dealer will buy back anything at 90% of what I paid unless the coin has appreciated, then it is more. I have had dealers give me back full price when I upgrade or buy something else.

kryptonitecomics

I would think 85% to 90% would be fair without knowing the specifics.

Nysoto

Thanks for the replies. I was not referring to just B&M dealers, but national dealers who sell mostly in the $500-$5000 range, and I was hoping to get a response from some of them on their buy-back policies.

If I was not offered at least 85% after doing some business with the dealer, I would sell elsewhere (ebay, BST...) and lose some respect for the dealer. Most of the coins I have sold have been into a rising market after holding for 3-20 years, but sometimes you need to sell earlier than that.

dorkkarl

80% - 85% is very fair

K S

doh

<< <i>Coin dealers are in business to take money from the collectors, and that is all they do....Don't think it is necessary for me to state what I think about most brick and mortar dealers. >>



Yikes. No, we get the picture.

I've had both good and bad experiences with B&M dealers. I would CERTAINLY disagree that they are in business to take money from collectors. Many are in business to feed their families. They're not run by UNICEF, you know. If you've had bad experiences I understand, but I don't think it's fair to lump them all together.

Greeniejr

It all depends on what the item is. In the case of high quality high demand items you will definitely get a lot more back then if you are buying junk. We had a guy come in the store the other day with a bunch of problem coins that we had sold him as problems. They were coins that we wanted to try at retail but we were content to wholesale them off eventually. He bought them against our advice that problem coins or coins out of the "Junk Box" probably won't yield good returns. He was shocked when we offered him less than he paid. Its just how it is.

PawPaul

I had a recent purchase , a PCGS MS-67 Cameo 1966 penny ........... held it for about a year ........the dealer told me when I bought it to be sure to offer it to him first if I ever sold "as it`s a very nice coin " -he said .

When I needed to sell it ; he had no interest and told me to offer it to R. Tomaska............

month later I offered it to him again : no offer whatsoever ...........

So I pinned him down at his table the next month and in front of his customers I announced " I will sell you this coin back for $700 dollars less then what I paid you for it "

"How much did you pay me for it " he said ..............

" $1950.00 " I replied .

He reluctantly bought it back - now you do the math and tell me how bad I got hosed .............

LeeG

I just sold a coin back to the same dealer I bought it from at 90%. I bought it two years ago.

doh

<< <i>He reluctantly bought it back - now you do the math and tell me how bad I got hosed ............. >>


You didn't get hosed at all. You bought something that there is only a very small niche market for. The dealer told you he wanted you to offer it to him only so you'd buy it in the first place. It's not his fault you believed in the snake oil he was selling.

PerryHall

<< <i>I had a recent purchase , a PCGS MS-67 Cameo 1966 penny ........... held it for about a year ........the dealer told me when I bought it to be sure to offer it to him first if I ever sold "as it`s a very nice coin " -he said .

When I needed to sell it ; he had no interest and told me to offer it to R. Tomaska............

month later I offered it to him again : no offer whatsoever ...........

So I pinned him down at his table the next month and in front of his customers I announced " I will sell you this coin back for $700 dollars less then what I paid you for it "

"How much did you pay me for it " he said ..............

" $1950.00 " I replied .

He reluctantly bought it back - now you do the math and tell me how bad I got hosed ............. >>



You paid $1950 for a 1966 cent?

rays

It has been my experience that the (often claimed) dealer margins of 10-20% are a fallacy. This belief is based upon two factors:
First, try to sell back almost any coin, and see what a dealer will really pay you. It can be a very illuminating experience.
Second, the nice coins that sell at auction to dealers are almost never put up for sale by them at 110% of what they paid. Frequently it is 150% or more.

PerryHall

<< <i>I just sold a coin back to the same dealer I bought it from at 90%. I bought it two years ago. >>



What coin was it? Many coins have gone up in value quite a bit in the last two years.

PrivateCoinCollector

<< <i>Depends. I'd say 75-80% on common modern stuff and up to 90-95% on better stuff (key dates, etc.)

The best I've done is $165 for a coin I spent $168. There was a 14 hour gap between the purchase and selling times. >>



Huh?

PerryHall

<< <i>It has been my experience that the (often claimed) dealer margins of 10-20% are a fallacy. This belief is based upon two factors:
First, try to sell back almost any coin, and see what a dealer will really pay you. It can be a very illuminating experience.
Second, the nice coins that sell at auction to dealers are almost never put up for sale by them at 110% of what they paid. Frequently it is 150% or more. >>



Totally agree. Only generic gold and maybe common date silver dollars trade within close margins.

PerryHall

<< <i>

<< <i>Depends. I'd say 75-80% on common modern stuff and up to 90-95% on better stuff (key dates, etc.)

The best I've done is $165 for a coin I spent $168. There was a 14 hour gap between the purchase and selling times. >>



Huh? >>



Sounds like buyer's remorse.

TwoSides2aCoin

Normally for me, when I purchase a coin, I have little intent of getting rid of it, unless I'm upgrading.
A "buy back" price is offered on every coin I've sold. I only sold about six hundred on ebay over the past six years, and haven't had anyone offer to sell me one back. I've made offers to buy back every one.

Here are a few simple rules to live by.

1 If you buy a coin, make it a coin you really want.
2. If you don't want it, don't buy it.
3. Don't be fickle.


Remember:

A dealer deals
A collector collects

Don't begrudge a business man for being smarter than a fickle man.

Nysoto

<< <i>Don't begrudge a business man for being smarter than a fickle man >>


Interesting. Can you explain more in depth why an eBay seller is smarter than a person who sells a coin after holding it a year or two?

Longacre

I think 80-90% is fair. On a recent sale back to a dealer, I got 100%, but I had already bought a duplicate date from him for a lot more money than the one I was selling back.

mrpotatoheadd

I don't think there's any such thing as "THE" dealer margin, whether 10% or 20% or whatever. The sort of margin the dealer is looking for is going to be determined by several things (in no particular order, and this is not necessarily a comprehensive list), and is almost certainly going to differ, depending on the particular coin:

- How much he thinks he can sell the coin for (seems obvious enough).
- How badly he wants the coin (maybe he has three others in inventory right now).
- His cash flow situation (maybe he has some bills coming due soon).
- How easily he thinks he can resell the coin (tying up his money in a coin which will sit in inventory for six months won't be a plus).
- I'm sure there are more factors, but you get the idea.

Some coins, dealers would be happy to get a chance to buy back, but others, not so much- it all depends on the coin. Maybe it's an item the dealer doesn't typically handle, but that he originally bought as part of a larger group. Maybe he doesn't think he can resell it fast enough (or for enough money) to make it worth his while. Maybe he doesn't like the attitude of the person trying to sell him the coin. There are lots of reasons why he may not offer as much money as the seller thinks he should.

I wouldn't be surprised to find coins put up for sale at 150% of what they brought at auction- again, it all depends on the coin. There are expenses involved in attending auctions, and those expenses have to be recovered somehow. If coins are really selling at auction for that sort of price (supposing the dealer can mark up the coin 50% and still find a buyer), why don't collectors just go to the auction and buy there instead?

Just some general thoughts on the subject- not meant as a criticism of anybody here.

TwoSides2aCoin

<< <i>

<< <i>Don't begrudge a business man for being smarter than a fickle man >>


Interesting. Can you explain more in depth why an eBay seller is smarter than a person who sells a coin after holding it a year or two? >>



I'm not saying an ebay seller is smarter than someone who bought a coin and sold it after a year and if you read that , I think you read between the lines. I said a BUSINESS MAN. (re: Coin Dealer)

Normally, Coin Dealers buy and sell coins. They have a profit margin when selling and they buy back behind grey sheet. ( Their pricing guide, not ours).
eBay sellers sell coins without buying back. I am not comparing the eBay seller to one who sells a coin after holding it for a year.
I intended to say that a person who collects coins would not normally sell it after a year... PERIOD.

So if a guy buys a coin and then tries to sell it a year later, he ought not expect to get a deal from a smart dealer who's been doing it for a long time. On the other hand, a dumb guy like me who starts an MS66 Low Leaf Wisconsin Statehood Quarter off at one cent and sells it for $867 when the Price Guide has it at $1250 just three days later... well, that isn't very smart.

I was only comparing my experience at selling on eBay as an example of happily buying back at the same price .... EVERY coin I've sold on eBay.

Now, could you explain, in detail, how you came to the conclusion that an eBay seller was somehow smarter than a person who bought a coin and wanted to sell it a year or two after having acquired it ?

jmcu12

Example of a recent buyback from an internet dealer for a coin that I purchased about a year ago:


Purchase price = $1450

Buyback straight cash = $1100 (or about 75%+ of the purchase price)

Buyback if I buy something from their site = $1200 (or about 82% of the purchase price)


===============================================================

My opinion is that the dealer should be able to buy back at least 80-85% of the purchase price. Yes they are in business to make money, but at 25% that is a rip. I am currently holding the coin and if I need to sell it I know I can get at least $1100 for it; but unless this online dealer were to having something that I could not live without, I will try NOT to purchase anything else from them (they are WAY above grey sheet anyway so this should not be difficult). It was an expensive lesson learned.

SeattleSlammer

So I pinned him down at his table the next month and in front of his customers I announced " I will sell you this coin back for $700 dollars less then what I paid you for it "

"How much did you pay me for it " he said ..............

" $1950.00 " I replied .

He reluctantly bought it back - now you do the math and tell me how bad I got hosed .............


Ouch!

mcmxi

My local guy gives me 100% in store credit and between 90-95% back in cash sometimes even 100%. I cherrypick him all of the time but When I do find something I always give him some of it when I sell it. Usually I just tell him what it is and hand it back to him. In return he lets me look at anything he has for as long as I want to look and gives me a good buyback price. I haven't scored anything really big but I have found quite a few nice varieties.

Nysoto

<< <i>I'm not saying an ebay seller is smarter than someone who bought a coin and sold it after a year and if you read that , I think you read between the lines. I said a BUSINESS MAN. (re: Coin Dealer) >>


Thanks for explaining. This is also something I did not know, that a BUSINESS MAN (re: Coin Dealer) is smarter than someone who bought a coin and sold it after a year, considering some are doctors and lawyers and such...

TwoSides2aCoin

<< <i>

<< <i>I'm not saying an ebay seller is smarter than someone who bought a coin and sold it after a year and if you read that , I think you read between the lines. I said a BUSINESS MAN. (re: Coin Dealer) >>


Thanks for explaining. This is also something I did not know, that a BUSINESS MAN (re: Coin Dealer) is smarter than someone who bought a coin and sold it after a year, considering some are doctors and lawyers and such... >>



I know a few geniuses who couldn't change a spark plug in their own cars. Genius in one discipline doesn't always transcend the next.

edit to add:

By the way, your question is genius in itself

LeeG

<< <i>What coin was it? Many coins have gone up in value quite a bit in the last two years. >>


It was a Classic Commem. They've been stale for years.

rays

<< <i>I wouldn't be surprised to find coins put up for sale at 150% of what they brought at auction- again, it all depends on the coin. There are expenses involved in attending auctions, and those expenses have to be recovered somehow. If coins are really selling at auction for that sort of price (supposing the dealer can mark up the coin 50% and still find a buyer), why don't collectors just go to the auction and buy there instead?

Just some general thoughts on the subject- not meant as a criticism of anybody here. >>




Many coins sell at auction and are then re-sold for 100% profit or more, especially when favorably slabbed; either bought raw (say, at a Stack's sale) or re-submitted.

I know dealers must earn a living and there are expenses related to attending auctions, let alone the risk involved in buying a raw coin and then (hoping) for a favorable slab grade (and not a body-bag). My point is that their mark-ups are not the usually quoted 10%, but almost always higher, and sometimes, much higher.

The coin market is unregulated and not at all transparent. There is no legal requirement for a seller to disclose his/her cost of the item for sale.

curly

Brothers, I'm almost embarrassed to tell you how I've done just this year. I've only dealt with two dealers this year. One dealer gave me over 91% on a buyback and 100% on trade-ins and the other has given me over 100% profit on some coins.

Personally, I think it's because 'ol curly sweet talks their office managers.

mrpotatoheadd

<< <i>My point is that their mark-ups are not the usually quoted 10%, but almost always higher, and sometimes, much higher. >>

I'm not surprised that dealers wouldn't quote their actual markup- when collectors are looking to buy, do they tell the dealer what the most they're actually willing to pay is (as opposed to the "that's all I have to spend" amount they usually quote)?

<< <i>The coin market is unregulated and not at all transparent. There is no legal requirement for a seller to disclose his/her cost of the item for sale. >>

How many businesses disclose their costs? How much did the supermarket you shop at pay for that box of Cheerios? How much did General Mills (or Post, or whoever) pay for the grain to make that cereal? Why is that relevant? If you don't like the price of the product (coins or cereal), you don't have to buy the product. Right?

TwoSides2aCoin

I like that response MrPotatoHead as it pertains to coins.
If Insurers and lawyers were under the same scrutiny, I wonder how long it would be before Congress would get involved. Oh wait, they are involved because of them two.

rays

<< <i>How many businesses disclose their costs? How much did the supermarket you shop at pay for that box of Cheerios? How much did General Mills (or Post, or whoever) pay for the grain to make that cereal? Why is that relevant? If you don't like the price of the product (coins or cereal), you don't have to buy the product. Right? >>




It is relevant, because Cheerios are not touted as "investments", but rather consumables.

mrpotatoheadd

<< <i>It is relevant, because Cheerios are not touted as "investments", but rather consumables. >>

Not all dealers tout coins as investments- in fact, some of the dealers who post here have specifically recommended against it in the past. Besides, you still don't have to buy them if you don't like the price.

And maybe it's just me, but I'd think one might want to be cautious about taking investment advice directly from the person selling the "investment". Doesn't necessarily mean the investment isn't a good one (it could be), but a seller of such has a definite interest in getting you to buy, regardless of your eventual financial outcome from the transaction.

edited... spelling

illini420

valente151

Worst was when I was offered for a coin I paid 15% above PCGS guide for, and I had even sent it to CAC while I owned it and had it beaned. Nothing more frustrating than people who charge for quality but don't pay for quality. I'm more than happy to pay more for a great coin, but expect to be paid more if I sell back.