A Queston About Fairness

Tiny

I would like to know if what happend to me at the St. Johns Coin Culb show in St.Augestine Florida today was fair or not. Here's the deal. I saw a early silver commemorative in a display case and asked how much. It was in one of those ANACS photo grade type holders graded MS 63. One of the people behind the row of tables picked it up and asked the person next to him that was with another customer how much and he said he hadn't given it much thought but what ever grey sheet was. Well guy #1 (not the owner) took it out of the plastice envelope and started studying it. He gets the GS and is looking at the listing. $220. he says and I replied that GS MS 63 ask was only $145. He says well it's better than 63 I said yea but it ain't no 65 either. Now guy #2 is still with the customer and the first guy says he'll resubmit it and takes it and another ANACS photo graded coin out of the case and sets them behind him on a table. My question is what should I have done and should I have been mad about what happened?? It is true that when I looked close at the coin it was probably under graded by ANACS but the owner probably only had 63 money in it and if he had wanted more why did he say what ever GS was and not say, you take a look at it and see if I should send it in and get a better grade. Thank You

OKbustchaser

It's his coin. He can grade and price it whatever he wishs.

DennisH

You should out the dealer and we should all boycott buying anything from him. What that guy did is total B.S. in my book.

astrorat

Assuming I understood your scenario correctly based on your facts...

Guy #1 is not the owner of the coin, but showed the coin to you and asked Guy #2, the owner, for a price for you. Guy #2 replies with GS price and Guy #1 looks at the coin more closely and "upgrades" it with a correspondingly higher price. You decline and Guy #1 states HE will resubmit it and puts it and another ANACS coin behind the counter.

Sounds like one possibility is that Guy #1 set the coin aside for HIM to buy later at the original 63 grade and then HE could resubmit it for the higher grade. If that is what happened, then that's rather awful but it sounds like a good ethical question for Andy's group at Summer Seminar!

If Guy #1 was working with Guy #2 (i.e. in business together) and hence had no individual financial gain from pulling the coin, then it is his (their) privilege to quote whatever price he (or they) see(s) fit, despite what is on the certificate. Yeah it stinks, but that's life in professional numismatics.

Lane

Tiny

That's the point, it wasn't his coin the owner said sell it at what ever grey sheet said and this guy takes it upon his self to
grade it a better grade not the owner.

astrorat

<< <i>That's the point, it wasn't his coin the owner said sell it at what ever grey sheet said and this guy takes it upon his self to
grade it a better grade not the owner. >>



Yep, then you got scooped. I can see this happening a lot, especially with varieties. It stinks and is unfair. Were you able to go back to the owner when Guy #1 was not around and re-inquire about the coin?

Lane

RichieURich

<< <i>

<< <i>That's the point, it wasn't his coin the owner said sell it at what ever grey sheet said and this guy takes it upon his self to
grade it a better grade not the owner. >>



Yep, then you got scooped. I can see this happening a lot, especially with varieties. It stinks and is unfair. Were you able to go back to the owner when Guy #1 was not around and re-inquire about the coin? >>


Yes, that does stink! About the only way you might have been able to avoid this "hijacking" of the coin was when the owner said "Greysheet" to immediately respond "Greysheet Ask is $145; is that OK?" to the owner. But of course that is 20 - 20 hindsight.

I would certainly not do business with Dealer #1 again, just walk past his table and don't even look in his case. This is most effective when there is no one at his table and you're checking all the tables.

BlindedByEgo

Go around and bad mouth him to everyone in the coin club. Yeah, that'll do it.

Fair? No - the guy is a Dick. OTOH, you could have just paid the higher price.

jmski52

He is too lazy and/or cheap to resubmit the coin, and he decided to try a last-second rip on a new customer. He took your interest in the coin as a sign that he could squeeze more out of it, but he wouldn't have bothered if you hadn't expressed interest. He really doesn't deserve to have any customers, at that rate. I hope you out him and that he gets boycotted.

You were quoted greysheet, and should have been able to make the deal at greysheet. There's no excuse.

astrorat

<< <i>You were quoted greysheet, and should have been able to make the deal at greysheet. >>



I agree...but that was not the issue. The source of the price (GS) was not in disagreement, but the grade was. He was quoted a GS price...just at a higher grade. Still stinks just a much, nonetheless.

Lane

ajia

So, if guy #1 was not the owner, who was he?
I can see this happening when 2 dealers share a table together.

Also, you story is a bit confusing.
1. You asked about the price.
2. Owner says GS (bid or ask?).
3. 3rd Party reviews the coin & quotes a different price (GS@64?).
At that point did guy #1 hand you the coin to review?
You state that you agreed with guy #1 that it was better than a 63, but not a 65 either.
Not sure, ultimately, if it matters, just curious as to why you wouldn't stand there & wait to talk to the owner of the coin.
You were ready to buy at GS63, right?

Basically, yes, it was a rotten thing guy #1 did, but he may have just been a friend of the dealer (or another dealer sharing the table, but I hope not).
I have often seen friends & 'wholesalers' sit behind dealers table. Maybe this 'friend' looked over the stock & thought the 2 coins in the PhotoGrade holders where undergraded, but thought he could get a better deal if nobody bought the coins during the show. Once someone showed interest in one, his bluff was called & he stored them for himself.
I would not get mad at the owner (dealer), except for the company he keeps.
I think it would be helpful if the owner was made aware of this as it may have been going on for some time, and may continue to happen if not stopped.
This 'friend' that sits behind the table may be pushing customers away without the dealer knowing.

Tiny

Once more:

Guy #1 gets the coin and shows to guy #2 the owner
Guy #2 say what ever GS says, that's when I assumed the grade ANACS assigned MS63
Guy #1 looks at the coin pulls out the GS and says $220. MS 64 ask

I'm P'd and said that's 64 price and guy #1 says he'll re-submit it.

I didn't think about getting shafted by guy #1 and him buying from guy #2 and getting a better grade.
Guess he's sticking both of us.

I didn't get his name but my friend Emory Robinson was set up next to him and I'll ask him who he was.

Guy #2 the owner seemed to be a descent but guy #1 gets my suc award for this month and maybe the year.

Bochiman

And, did you go back and ask guy #2, when he was done with the customer, why it happened the way it did?

BlindedByEgo

<< <i>And, did you go back and ask guy #2, when he was done with the customer, why it happened the way it did? >>



Too non-confrontational? I wondered the same thing, Ron.

Mowgli

There is the possiblility that the owner is not happy with his helper for blowing a sale. Commeratives are not what you would call hot and the shows I have attended have tons of them. I have had dealers raise the price and claim that the coin is better than it is slabbed, just like they want to claim the slabbed coin you are trying to sell is overgraded. I always pass when someone tries to sell or buy a slabbed coin as a different grade. I wouldn't burn the dealer since he isn't the one who quoted the price. I don't think you'll have any trouble finding another one.