Barber markup
Mowgli
Posts: 1,219 ✭
I have nothing against anyone making a buck but thought you might find the following interesting.
I will not name the dealer but I had a chance to buy a hard to find Barber half in VF 35 1st tier slab. My price was $1550. It didn't match my set so I could not bring myself to buy it even though I thought the price was more than fair. It was sold to another dealer who sold it to another dealer who is now offering the coin for sale (I'm pretty sure it is the same coin as it looks the same and is in the same TPG holder with the same grade). Amazingly (at least to me) is the coin is now going for more than double what I could have bought it for three months ago. Even if I sold coins I would not have bought it for resale because I felt it was fully priced (and then some) for the grade. Plus it didn't seem that well struck. My ignorance on the escalating price of Barber halves might be an issue but I don't think they are doubling every three months.
The dealer who has it now is a retail dealer and anyone who uses them knows they pay over trends for Barbers. I am shocked that the mark up is so great but this is a capitalistic society. However, I think that the Barber collectors should feel some hope that it is possible to buy halves without paying multiples of trends.
I will not name the dealer but I had a chance to buy a hard to find Barber half in VF 35 1st tier slab. My price was $1550. It didn't match my set so I could not bring myself to buy it even though I thought the price was more than fair. It was sold to another dealer who sold it to another dealer who is now offering the coin for sale (I'm pretty sure it is the same coin as it looks the same and is in the same TPG holder with the same grade). Amazingly (at least to me) is the coin is now going for more than double what I could have bought it for three months ago. Even if I sold coins I would not have bought it for resale because I felt it was fully priced (and then some) for the grade. Plus it didn't seem that well struck. My ignorance on the escalating price of Barber halves might be an issue but I don't think they are doubling every three months.
The dealer who has it now is a retail dealer and anyone who uses them knows they pay over trends for Barbers. I am shocked that the mark up is so great but this is a capitalistic society. However, I think that the Barber collectors should feel some hope that it is possible to buy halves without paying multiples of trends.
In the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king.
0
Comments
<< <i>VF35, especially for tough dates, is an extremely desirable grade. Often times, dealers can practically name their price, and people will buy it at that, simply because they are so tough to come by. >>
Very true.
Looking for Denmark 1874 20-Kroner. Please offer.
There definitely is at least a two-tier market for barber halves in circulated grades. The very common low-grade coins in AG to VG are mostly priced about what CDN and other price lists show them and are easy to find for the common dates at most coin shows. Even the VG coins if really nice or better dates can sell above price guides (as can ANY coins--sellers are not under ANY obligation to sell their coins according to ANY price list; a lot of collectors seem to have trouble with this concept). When you get beyond the common stuff, you find it very hard to find nice coins. Most available coins in F or better that are available are cleaned, polished, whizzed, pitted, or otherwise less than choice. This stuff often is priced at or around price lists and most dealers try to get what they can for these. I try to avoid these sub-par coins, but we all get stuck with a few now and then. A quick look on eBay at available barber halves for sale will give a lesson in what is out there and should verify these comments about quality and supply.
The upper tier of barber halves in circulated condition is a completely different animal and although you may be able to find coins for sale at close to CDN or trends guides (grab them quickly as you are more knowledeable than the seller and will be getting a bargain from a seller who thinks the price guides are on the mark or perhaps the sellers aren't pushing up the prices); often the knowledeable sellers will ask more, and get it. If you want to see what the free market is for these, watch eBay for coins in F to EF and AU in PCGS holders, especially better dates. Tyler Child (tchild on eBay) is a perfect example of this upper tier collector/seller; he has strong standards and buys and sells really nice stuff and his coins bring way over CDN and trends on most every coin he sells, in this auction venue, with many collectors bidding against each other for these tough-to-find gems.
When it comes to the really tough coins in the series like the 04-S, 97-O, 98-O, 01-S, 96-O, 93-S, etc in choice and pcgs-slabs the seller can almost name his price and get it. The last 04-S half in PCGS EF45 I sold on eBay several years ago sold in under 10 minutes by BIN and brought over $2000 with the CDN price of about $800 at the time. They have only gone up in price since then and the price guides are woefully behind.
Being armed with such knowledge should help you understand the market for these wonderful coins. Good luck in your pursuits.
I enjoy this hobby for many reasons. That it seems to be remaining vestige of a 'free market' system is one of them. But I am not a business major, so I may be wrong
Don
I've been working on a fine & better barber set of only original problem free coins for 15+ years and I'm still not complete.
I knew the half was a good deal at $1550 and that PCGS Barbers bring good money on eBay. I didn't buy it because I am working on an AU set and I left it up to the dealer to make what he could rather than me benefitting by selling it on eBay or the B/S/T; he has been fair with me and I do not want to take advantage of that. Despite missing all the coins you mentioned I have managed to acquire 57 of the 71 halves in AU without going to eBay or paying more than trends in about 13 months. It could be that the coins you mentioned will cost me an appendage or two but I am hopeful. Nevertheless, I appreciate the picture you paint and will be on my toes.
Mowgli, if it makes you feel any better, last year I picked up a raw 1904-s in vf for $500 at the San Jose show and it subsequently graded vf35 at NGC. Then I found a raw xf example that currently resides in an xf45 PCGS holder in my registry date set. Well thinking I didn't need two of the same key I sold the 35 at another show to a very reliable dealer for $600 to free up some cash for purchase made at the show. I made a hundred bucks less slab juice. I shoulda done better, but I knew that a PCGS vf 35 had just sold on ebay for $750. This was not 15 months ago. Inflation.
Dr Pete, Thank you for your imput. Great post.
Collecting Barber Halves in mid range condition has certainly been a daunting task;
they are considerably harder to locate in VF 35 - XF 45 than in AU 50 - 58. Case in
point, Craig Peterson, has realized that there are no 1905-P's in XF 45. His only chance
of getting one holdered is to locate a lower end AU 50 in another TPG. We all wish him
well in locating that coin.
Regarding the 1904-S, there are three currently for sale at JJ Teaparty in Boston.
PCGS 40 @ $3995; NGC 35 @ $3295; PCGS 20 @ $2695.
I have posted the 1904-S that I picked up in an ANACS VF 20 holder at Teletrade
two years ago - [ Don Soles can remember the exact date better than I can ]. I paid
$672 for that coin - and it will be part of my cross over submission to PCGS this upcoming week.
IMHO, this coin is a VF 25; and no, its not for sale. Its destined for my second tier set.
When I bought DrPete's duplicate 1904-S in PCGS 55 four years ago, it was the only AU 55 at
PCGS, and no finer AU's known - at that time. Fast forward two years and Harry Laibstain had
the only AU 58 available, which I snapped up immediately. Now two years later, the 1904-S has
9 AU 55's and 8 AU 58's. The quickly escalating prices of this - and the others Dr Pete mentioned -
has brought well hidden coins into the limelight.
Another date that does not exist in AU 58 is the 1897-S. I am on the look out for that coin to
upgrade the AU 53 in my primary collection. I very well may have to go the route I took previously
with a 1904-O in NGC 61 [ purchased from HLRC ] and submitted it to PCGS with a minimum grade
of AU 58. Yes, that 04-O now resides in a PCGS 58 holder. In all honesty, that NGC 61 had luster
breaks on the high points and did not truly belong in a MS 61 holder. Locating a 1904-O already
in a PCGS AU 58 was almost an impossibility then, as I believe it was a POP 2 - and today, its just
a POP 5 coin in AU 58. [ My coin beling included.]
Mowgli mentioned a coin being flipped three times - and trebbling the price in the process; obviously
this is just another case of supply and demand. If you follow the market closely you'll see that any
established fixed price guide is out dated the second its printed when mid range Barber halves are
involved.
Mint State coins in the middle grades [ 62 - 64 ] seem to have peaked and in some cases slipped in
recent prices realized. POP - TOP's are a whole other story. Only a few select individuals have the
financial ability to assemble a collection in the 65 - 67 range. Unless other new collectors who wish
to assemble a set in the 65 - 67 grade range, the current owners won't be able to derive the true
value of their collection, as only professional dealers will be interested in acquiring these coins at a discounted amount, so as to flip them for a mark-up. Only the collector of the superlative graded
coin will feel a serious financial loss when its time to sell, unless their holdings are held for the long term.
There is no short term market for the super grades.
Obviously there is a short term market for the lower VF 35 - XF 45 garded coins.
Just my observations and my financial inability to join the top three collections. [ Long or short term.]
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>Regarding the 1904-S, there are three currently for sale at JJ Teaparty in Boston.
PCGS 40 @ $3995; NGC 35 @ $3295; PCGS 20 @ $2695. >>
OH GOOD GRIEF!!!!!!!
Mike, thanks for this eye opening report.
That NGC VF35 is actually THE SAME coin I just spoke of in this thread. The distinctive gouge mark just above the T in liberty is the diagnostic.
Of course it's moon money, but still.....
I'm gonna go kiss my 45 right now.
<< <i>
<< <i>Regarding the 1904-S, there are three currently for sale at JJ Teaparty in Boston.
PCGS 40 @ $3995; NGC 35 @ $3295; PCGS 20 @ $2695. >>
OH GOOD GRIEF!!!!!!!
Mike, thanks for this eye opening report.
That NGC VF35 is actually THE SAME coin I just spoke of in this thread. The distinctive gouge mark just above the T in liberty is the diagnostic.
Of course it's moon money, but still.....
I'm gonna go kiss my 45 right now. >>
In today's market, not really moon money for the 04-S.......I just think you could have done a little better than $600.00. It just goes to show how important it is to know the real market value for a coin and not just use the price sheets.
Connor Numismatics Website