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PCGS: Damage or Tooling bodybag...

TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,739 ✭✭✭✭✭
in World & Ancient Coins Forum
... does that imply the authenticity?

What say you?

8 Reales Madness Collection

Comments

  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 23,443 ✭✭✭✭✭
    can you be more specific?

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • MacCrimmonMacCrimmon Posts: 7,058 ✭✭✭


    << <i>... does that imply the authenticity?

    What say you? >>




    It might "imply" it, but it does not guarantee it. No plastic sandwich, no guarantee of authenticity (or grade).


    The only thing guaranteed by a bodybag is your irretrievable cash.image
  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,739 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>can you be more specific? >>



    A more specific question would be: Does anyone know if PCGS checks for authenticity before moving onto checking for problems? So a counterfeit cleaned coin would come back as "Not Authentic" and not "Cleaned". By the same token "Cleaned" would imply that the coin passed the authenticity test...

    Does that make more sense?

    8 Reales Madness Collection
  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 23,443 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A fair question and I hope that either HRH or Coinking sees this and comments...



    I have no idea. I would think that if the coin has been damaged/tooled or whatever, that can make the decision to BB a coin easier... it seems that they could punt on the issue as to whether the coin is authentic.

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • koincollectkoincollect Posts: 446 ✭✭✭
    They should at least be letting you know whether it is authentic or not as this is included in the fees.
  • FilthyBrokeFilthyBroke Posts: 3,518


    << <i>

    << <i>can you be more specific? >>



    A more specific question would be: Does anyone know if PCGS checks for authenticity before moving onto checking for problems? So a counterfeit cleaned coin would come back as "Not Authentic" and not "Cleaned". By the same token "Cleaned" would imply that the coin passed the authenticity test...

    Does that make more sense? >>



    I had this issue before, and I'll say that it does NOT imply anything, as was explained to me by customer service. I also wondered why a surface altered coin would return as Not Genuine after a second submission.image

  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,331 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm sure that PCGS would tell you if the coin is counterfeit if they noticed it. However, it's also possible (especially in the case of an obscure and/or badly damaged coin) that the graders bodybagged the coin for damage or tooling at first glance without studying it further for authenticity. Therefore, you shouldn't assume anything about the authenticity of the bodybagged coin. Next stop, NCS.
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,739 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Next stop, NCS. >>



    Ditto... Going to send it to them once it's back from PCGS.

    8 Reales Madness Collection
  • CoinKingCoinKing Posts: 410 ✭


    << <i>I'm sure that PCGS would tell you if the coin is counterfeit if they noticed it. However, it's also possible (especially in the case of an obscure and/or badly damaged coin) that the graders bodybagged the coin for damage or tooling at first glance without studying it further for authenticity. Therefore, you shouldn't assume anything about the authenticity of the bodybagged coin. Next stop, NCS. >>



    Andy, you're right. If we notice right away that the coin is counterfeit, we'll body bag it for that reason. However, sometimes the surfaces of a coin have been so badly cleaned or altered or damaged that the normal markers that we use to detect counterfeits are missing, making it impossible to make a determination. For that reason, one cannot make any assumptions about the authenticity of a coin in a body-bag.
    Ron Guth
    President
    PCGS CoinFacts - the Internet Encyclopedia of U.S. Coins
    www.CoinFacts.com
  • coinpicturescoinpictures Posts: 5,345 ✭✭✭
    Interesting. I guess the TPGS all do it differently.

    I had a Siberian Polushka that came back from ICG bodybagged for environmental damage. When I spoke with them about the piece, I asked about authenticity. They said that with ICG, authentication and grading are two discrete processes, i.e., not part of the grading process. A coin only goes to be graded once it is determined to be authentic. I was told that if a coin was a no-grade for any reason other than authenticity, that it had passed authentication.
    Numismotography

    1/2 Cents

    U.S. Revenue Stamps

    image
  • TwoKopeikiTwoKopeiki Posts: 9,739 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thank you, Mr. Guth!

    8 Reales Madness Collection
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