Another Monster Toned Coin Question

keoj

I've seen the scans of some amazingly toned coins up on the board. Thanks for sharing them. I don't disbute that they should command a premium. However, I have to ask a darkside question here.....

It seems that for some series, I have never (I mean never) seen a rainbow toned coin. I keep my comments to the rainbows for this one....I have seen some beautifully toned coins, but no rainbows. Why is that the rainbows seem to be most prevalent amongst Morgans, Washington's, Mercury's and Buffalo's (I'm sure that missing a few) and non-existent for some of the early seated coinage. Example, anyone ever see a rainbow Seated dollar?


keoj

Typetone

Keoj:

Do you consider a rainbow as only crescent shaped rainbows or do you also consider rim rainbow toning as a rainbow?

Greg

TomB

I think Greg brings up an excellent point which is what exactly would constitute a true rainbow to you. As for the coins I would think that most/much of the responsibility for causing a rainbow lies in the storage method and conditions. Washingtons are often toned from the cardboard US Mint Sets of '47-'58 and by being stored in cardboard albums such as Wayte Raymond (National Coin Album) or Meghrig. The Mercs and Buffs would also be most likely toned through storage in an album over many years while Morgans are often seen with sulfer impregnated canvas or burlap bag-type toning. Perhaps there are a few reasons which together conspire to keep the number of rainbow toned Seated dollars to a minimum. Among these would be that the storage conditions for these coins over the years may not have been optimum for a rainbow to occur, that is, they may have been stored not in cardboard albums but, rather, in velvet trays or wooden drawers. This would leave a different quality of toning. Also, many of these coins were cleaned at some point in the past and that erradicates the toning and a new layer of toning is not as likely to form a beautiful rainbow. Additionally, there were no doubt quite a few less Seated dollars saved in mint state over the years than there were coins of the other series mentioned. Therefore, in a hypothetical case, if a rainbow occurs randomly (through serendipitous storage) on one mint state coin in every 20,000 saved then your odds of finding a rainbow 1958 Washington are significantly higher than finding one from the Seated Liberty series. Hope this helps.

keoj

Good points on boths responses so far. The rainbow toning that I'm thinking about is not concentric from the edge in (what would occur in a folder), rather it is these glorius colors in lines across the coin.

Okay, I'll say it, I have a hard time believing that ALL of these coins happened to fall into a NATURAL toning advantageous environment that created these colors. Note the caveat above of ALL and NATURAL. I'll probably get lots of grief on what NATURAL means. It just appears as a non-Morgan collector that some of these are AT to the max. I'm not being negative (I like these coins too) but just an observation from a collector of a series where I have never seen even one of these coins. Yes, I do see coins with beautiful concentric toning in the series I collect from old folders.

keoj

KoinKollector

I saw a "rainbow" seated dime. Looked almost like a morgan w/ bag toning. I passed on it, it was a PCGS AU50, common date and the guy was asking 320. I wish i now bought it

Typetone

Keoj:

I've mostly seen what you describe in Morgans. Rainbows come from sitting in bags for years. One coin sits on top of a second, with only a crescent of the second showing. The crescent touches the bag, and voila, over the years, rainbow toning. I have not seen much of such toning in other series. Have seen a few 58D Franklins as described from mint set wrapping. Have seen tens of rim rainbow toned Washingtons (from Dansco albums) but not really any crescents that I can recall.

Greg

tradedollarnut

Ok - if mint bags caused the toning, why aren't there dozens of rainbow toned 1859 & 1860-O seated dollars around? They spent even longer than the Morgans locked up in original bags (4 or 5) at the Treasury. Or 1871, I believe there was a bag of those released also.

For that matter, are there any rainbow toned CC's? I've never seen a GSA with a rainbow toned coin in it - if the bag caused the toning shouldn't there have been hundreds released by the GSA when they pulled them out of the bags and sold them?

Seems to me there must be some additional environmental factor involved.

supercoin

Maybe the seated dollars were in a different kind of bag with less sulfur or whatever?

I don't know, but there are plenty of rainbow CC Morgans around, in fact click here and you'll no longer be able to say you've never seen one in a GSA holder.

This one is not particularly attractive to my eye, but evidence that they do occur, and wasn't "messed with" outside the mint.

supercoin

Here's a prettier one, not in a GSA holder, click here.