Greatest Return man in NFL History

FavreFan1971 · November 26, 2007 2:38AM

Since there has been a "discussion" on adding Devin Hester to the future HOF set I would like ask you who you think is the all time return man in NFL history.

Please vote below.

Write ins are exceptable but you will recieve two lashings from Matt's teddy bear.

Stingray · November 26, 2007 3:00AM

Shouldn't this be in the Sports Talk Forum??

JasP24 · November 26, 2007 3:38AM

The only issue with polls like this are when you have one active player who is currently on a hot streak vs. a bunch of guys who have long since retired the judgements can by skewed...Memories are short, particularly with football. Wasn't long ago, the debate was Peyton Manning being the greatest QB of all-time. Now Tom Brady is hot, and he's being talked about as maybe the greatest ever.

If you asked me who the greatest return man is in the game today, OBVIOUSLY it is Devin Hester...But his body of work consists of 1 3/4 seasons..I'm sorry but I refuse to give in to the Kurt Warner belief system. For those who rememebr, Kurt Warner USED to be part of the all-time QB set. He was added prematurely and went from league MVP one year to league fumbling machine the next. He started this season as a backup in Arizona!

My point is, don't be too quick to annoint someone the GOAT without seeing the complete, or at least semi-complete body of work. Lets re-visit this 5 years from now..If Hester has 20+ return TDs, then I'll be ready to call him the greatest return man ever.

Just my opnion of course,
Jason

gosteelers · November 26, 2007 3:45AM

Brian Mitchell until further notice...

goraiders · November 26, 2007 3:59AM

gotta be sayerys for all time ,not this year.all time

jradke4 · November 26, 2007 5:00AM

i agree with Jason. right now he has some good special teams play in front of him. lets see what happens when the bears have to pay to retain some of these players that are blocking for him. yes he has had a great run the last 2 years. but 2 years doenst make a canton bust.

envoy98 · November 26, 2007 5:14AM

Wait a second... Desmond Howard and Dante Hall didn't even make the list?

Nevermind, just noticed Hall. Hall is the greatest ever. He even had a nickname. "The X Factor". He must be the GOAT.

shagrotn77 · November 26, 2007 5:21AM

Dave Meggett! Just kidding - though as a Giants fan, Meggett was really fun to watch. I think Hester is well on his way to being the best return man ever. He's without question had the best 2-year start to a career, or the best 2-year stretch ever.

The media and fans are always looking to annoint the "best ever", and I don't think we can truly wrap our minds around that concept a large portion of the time.

Just for doo doos and giggles though, I voted for Hester

markj111 · November 26, 2007 6:25AM

What about Travis Williams?

envoy98 · November 26, 2007 6:53AM

...or Nate Burleson?

Sorry, I'm just kidding. To be honest, does a special teamer / return specialist really even need to be considered right now? I guess if Hester does something (or things) that no one has ever done before and he does it for a long time, then maybe consideration is warranted. For now, he's got just shy of 2 seasons under his belt. Yes, he's looked fantastic but so did Dante Hall. I remember getting $20 for a an insert auto of his, and $55 for his SP Authentic rc. Now I bet both can be had for < $3.

FavreFan1971 · November 26, 2007 7:35AM

<< What about Travis Williams? >>

Being a Packer Fan it was hard to not put him on the list. He only played two good years. The rest of these guys have done it for mulitple years

FavreFan1971 · November 26, 2007 7:36AM

<< Wait a second... Desmond Howard and Dante Hall didn't even make the list?

Nevermind, just noticed Hall. Hall is the greatest ever. He even had a nickname. "The X Factor". He must be the GOAT.

>>

Desmond, again another Packer had really only two good return years. One for the ages too. That alone does not make you the GOAT

onlyanumber · November 26, 2007 8:22AM

Only reading the title of the thread, the first name that popped in my mind was Mel Gray....

perkdog · November 26, 2007 8:28AM

I voted for Billy "White Shoes" Johnson only because I love his nickname! Turns out it wasnt a bad quess from what the poll looks like.

GDM67 · November 26, 2007 8:40AM

Sayers averaged over 30 yards per kickoff return. Averaged. He was the most electrifying man who ever carried a ball in the league.

Big props for including the stouthearted Brian Mitchell and the exciting Eric Metcalf.

And somebody please vote for the great Rick Upchurch.

cardbender · November 26, 2007 10:41AM

<< Brian Mitchell until further notice... >>

Agreed. I like his body of work over his long career.
Some guys are one or two year wonders, I like the return guys who do it well for over 6-7 years.

Nobody mentioned HOF'ers Jack Christiansen, Ollie Matson, or Bobby Mitchell. All had tremendous numbers and TD amounts returning kicks in addition to being HOF performers at other positions. Similar to Gale Sayers.

The guy on the Browns Josh Cribb's isn't bad either for a young current player.

HECK55 · November 26, 2007 10:47AM

I like the historical approach. Mel Gray was really something to watch as was Dave Meggett. Does anyone besides me remember J. T. Smith? Rick

GDM67 · November 26, 2007 11:23AM

Bobby Mitchell excelled at everything he did. If it's possible to be a HOFer and still be underrated, Bobby's underrated.

NickM · November 26, 2007 11:24AM

How about Ron Brown of the '80s Rams?

Nick

mintstateinc · November 26, 2007 11:58AM

Deion Sanders was electrifying, and while not the all-time best, was really fun to watch on returns. Like Hester, Sanders could take a kick back at any time.

Gabbs · November 26, 2007 12:03PM

Brian Mitchell no doubt in my mind.

Over 19,000 return yards !!!

I dont think that number will ever be touched.

He was big, tough, had good (not great) speed and was very smart

As for the older guys:
The "old school" version of Devin Hester was Gayle Sayers and George Mcafee
both electrifying return men.

Gabbs

FavreFan1971 · November 27, 2007 12:45AM

<< Shouldn't this be in the Sports Talk Forum?? >>

#1, I don't read the Sports Talk Forum because it is 99% crap. Have not looked in that thread for a long time.
#2, I bet you voted on this thread

Stingray · November 27, 2007 1:45AM

<< 

<< Shouldn't this be in the Sports Talk Forum?? >>

#1, I don't read the Sports Talk Forum because it is 99% crap. Have not looked in that thread for a long time.
#2, I bet you voted on this thread

>>

I did of course!!

Sorry, did not intend to sound mean about this not being in the sports talk forum.

JasP24 · November 27, 2007 1:57AM

This thread belongs in on the PSA Set Registry Forum because we are discussing the merits of Devin Hester being added or not added to the Future HOF Rookie Players- Modern set.

Jason

vjsteele4 · November 27, 2007 6:09AM

I am a huge Bears fan and a Hester fan also. I haven't seen anyone so electrifying to watch on a punt or kickoff return ever.
But I am also a realist and don't think Hester should be added to the set now also. I have to agree with Jason that added people too early could be a mistake and ultimately drive some collectors away from the sets. I prefer being late on addind a player than being too early and getting "Warner'd"

estang · November 27, 2007 10:35PM

Rick Upchurch was the best of the 1970s that I recall.

alnavman · November 28, 2007 5:17AM

Sayers was electifying much like Hester is today. one of my favorite Browns returners was Eric Metcalf...and don't forget Leroy Kelly started out returning kicks when Jim Brown was still playing and if memory serves me correct didn't Bob Hayes also return kicks?? last but not least I think a few more years have to go by before Hester is voted onto any all time HOF lists......

markj111 · November 28, 2007 6:23AM

I guess that the fact that we even remember Travis Williams says a lot about our age. I knew he had a short career and a sad ending-I did nor realize that he was effective only two years.

thefootballcardstore · November 28, 2007 10:02AM

Hester has superior vision – I’ve never seen someone run into the endzone untouched as many times as Hester, but he needs another year or the all-time record. But he is who we think he is – and I think we will eventually crown his ass (special thanks to Dennis Green). I’ll reply to this thread next year with an emphatic “HESTER”!

PS - I didn't vote yet, but I will when this comes up again.

BearCollector · November 29, 2007 9:54AM

I gotta agree with Jeremy, we need more than 27 regular season games (plus a Super Bowl TD) to crown anyone in anything, but I don't think it will require 5 years/20+ TDs either. As one of the great Sayers fans, to see Devin shatter Gale's marks in such a short time (although Gale only had about 50 games of returning kicks himself) is unreal. To think, 5 combined kick return TDs in a season has only been done TWICE in NFL history, and Hester has both (and counting) and even had at least one TD called back this year. Sayers didn't fumble as much, but I'm already very close to taking Hester strictly as a return man. I've never seen anyone at the pro level have such an impact on that phase of the game and field position.

cardbender · November 29, 2007 2:46PM

One thing that doesn't get mentioned is kickoff return attempts. Since the kickoff line was moved back a few years ago, there's more returns and less touchbacks. Look at the stats, it use to be a kickoff guy would get like 30 returns in a year (14 game season too). Now you see guys getting 50-60 returns some years. Total yardage is way up. So I can see the yardage numbers and career TD return records falling as the Devin Hesters appear on the scene. No doubt he's a special return guy.

More kicks= more opportunity for yards and TD's. Just a thought.

Upchurch was great that one year, was it in 1976 for punt returns, but White Shoes Johnson was easily his equal if not better over his entire career.

JusttheFacts · November 29, 2007 9:59PM

When I was growing up, my friend was a Houston Oilers fan (never figured out why since he lived in Chicago his whole life) and he supported Billy "White Shoes" Johnson as the best return man. I lived in Denver for a couple of years and I supported Rick Upchurch. Upchurch's big season for touchdowns was 1976 with 4, but he led the league in punt return average three times (76, 78, 82). Johnson led the league twice (75, 77).

As for Hester, I agree we should wait a few more years. However, he is the best returner I've ever seen (although I am not old enough to have seen Sayers except in old highlight footage). Hester's only downside is his propensity to make bad decisions on whether to try to field a ball (losing one fumble against Denver and nearly losing another).

I agree that, on average, moving the kickoffs back will provide more return opportunities. However, with respect to Hester, he is getting less chances since many games teams are never kicking to him, giving him fewer opportunities. I do not remember teams avoiding a return man the whole game (even for greats such as Upchurch and Johnson). In the past, the only time they wouldn't kick to the return man was late in the game with a lead. Sometimes they don't kick to Hester on the opening kickoff (see Super Bowl against Colts for reason why)!

We need to come up with a new stat to measure Hester's true effect on the game. It is not just the balls he returns, but the effect on the other kicks. For example, against Denver, the Broncos kicked off one time short to Davis (the Bears #2 return man) and he returned the ball to midfield. This is a common occurrence. Hester should get credit for this field position as it was the Broncos' unwillingness to kick to him that led to the excellent field position. To really measure Hester's effect on the game, we should look to see what the Bears average field position after kickoffs is compared to the league, and also look to the net average on punts against the Bears. Return average doesn't capture the true story.

John

Greatest Return man in NFL History

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