<< <i>Doesn't this mean the Mint is increasing the mintage limit for 2007 half-ounce platinum proof coins? I think they published a maximum of 16,000 earlier this year. >>
American Eagle Platinum Proof One-Half Ounce Coin Product Limit: 5,000
<< <i>Doesn't this mean the Mint is increasing the mintage limit for 2007 half-ounce platinum proof coins? I think they published a maximum of 16,000 earlier this year. >>
The mint has now lost all the credibilty that they had, imho and looks like they have not only tried to kill the flipper, but the collector as well
<< <i>Consider this folks. The LIMIT is 30k. This high mintage limit might actually work to the advantage of the collector. It might possibly keep the flipper away and reduce sales. If they cut off sales at the end of the year then there may still be a limited quantity sold. I just don't know what the filppers will do though. If they go after these then the desirability could go flat-just another victim of the flipper rabble. >>
good thought, for the collectors. the 30k limit esentially(sp) kills the aftermarket.
no matter how many they sell it's like "mint to demand" for Platinum and @ 2K a set and limit of one, these will not be anything like the gold or silver reverse proof.
Here is the PR discussing mintage limits: 15,000, just like I remembered. Pfftttt!!! Someone from NN or CW want to give Mr. White a call and talk to him about it?
Salute the automobile: The greatest anti-pollution device in human history! (Just think of city streets clogged with a hundred thousand horses each generating 15 lbs of manure every day...)
A variety of early year Proof Plat coins with mintages of 7,000-8,500 still sell for less than 10% over melt (some less than 5%), while this 30,000 mintage reverse proof coin will cost between 50%-75% over melt. Could be a real shot in the arm for the early year Proof Plat coins?
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Platinum is currently $1436. With the 1oz in the set, at $1950, that gives ~26% premium over spot. (50% would be $700+ over). Still a large premium, imho.
I think the mint is doing 2 things here.... 1) So many people jump and buy anything and everything they sell that they figure they may as well get the most of what they can...why let aftermarket sellers get it all? 2) So many complain about getting an order in and getting a new issue that, for something that would sell like hotcakes at 5000 mintage, maybe be hot at 10,000 mintage, they are saying 30,000 mintage. Should allow for everyone who wants one to get one, right?
<< <i>Doesn't this mean the Mint is increasing the mintage limit for 2007 half-ounce platinum proof coins? I think they published a maximum of 16,000 earlier this year. >>
American Eagle Platinum Proof One-Half Ounce Coin Product Limit: 5,000
how can they sell 30 sets >>
Interesting... The individual halves are limited to 5,000 and the 4-coin sets are limited to 10,000. I might think that this means there is a hard limit of only 15,000 of them being produced and they have already sold approx 5,000 1/2 oz coins (individually and in sets).
My bet is that no where near 30,000 of these sets will be produced or sold...
Eric
EAC member since 2011, one third of the way through my 1793 large cent type set
Interesting...A variety of early year Proof Plat coins with mintages of 7,000-8,500 still sell for less than 10% over melt (some less than 5%), while this 30,000 mintage reverse proof coin will cost between 50%-75% over melt. Could be a real shot in the arm for the early year Proof Plat coins?
That seems unlikely. Mint is just demonstrating that it has no clue when it comes to the platinum collector market.
The base isn't there to support 30,000 sets at 2k a pop. Heck, even at 10,000 sets they'd have a problem. The idea of a 1 set per household limit for a week is laughable - do they really think that demand will be that high??
I see this as having no impact on platinum as a whole... a real shame.
A high priced set isn't going to attract new collectors to the platinum market, and this set will just languish until whenever the Mint decides to pull the plug.
As others have mentioned, there are only two questions now:
1. when will the Mint stop sales
2. what will the final sales figures be at that time.
I think it's a safe guess that they will be well under 10,000.
Aren't we reading more double-speak from the govt/mint on this? Besides this enhanced reverse proof bit and the mintage figures tossed out, what's the real story? Could we have been set up any better? Somebody is laughing somewhere near the top.
The American Eagle 10th Anniversary Platinum Set is presented in an elegant hardwood box with a mahogany finish and adorned with a silver foil on the domed lid. The box is highly lacquered, rubbed and buffed to a gloss finish. The coins are exhibited on a specially designed wood platform angled to display the coins when the box is opened. Each set is accompanied by a Certificate of Authenticity.
Let's see... 2007 plat proof at melt is $750.
2007 plat reverse proof might be worth $100 over that, say $850.
The coins' reverse was designed by United States Mint Artistic Infusion Program Master Designer Thomas Cleveland and engraved by United States Mint Medallic Sculptor Phebe Hemphill. Featured on the 2007-dated platinum coins, it is the second design in the three-year series entitled, "The Foundations of American Democracy," and celebrates the Executive Branch of government. The design depicts a bald eagle with its wings spread wide representing freedom, with a shield at the ready to enforce the laws that guarantee those freedoms. Inscriptions on the reverse are "1/2 oz.," ".9995 platinum," "$50," "The United States of America," and "Freedom." The reverse also carries the "W" mintmark denoting production at the United States Mint at West Point.
I also love how they were too lazy to really think the reverse through...
Mint Employee: "Changing designs and dies requires effort... How about we just use the design we are currently running, even though it is the 2nd of a 3 coin series?"
Mint Boss: "Um, what are we talking about? Oh right, good idea." falls back to sleep
Yes, it does seem that the Mint could have had better planning with the series that a "special" 10th Anniv Set wouldn't just pick up in the middle of a short series. I would think it deserves something special that stands on its own, rather than just taking whatever design happens to be in use at the moment.
Eric
EAC member since 2011, one third of the way through my 1793 large cent type set
Platinum is currently $1436. With the 1oz in the set, at $1950, that gives ~26% premium over spot. (50% would be $700+ over). Still a large premium, imho.
$1436 spot x 1.26 = $1,809 $1,436 spot x 1.35 = $1,938
So, really closer to 36% over spot - no?
Wondercoin
P.S. - Attention flippers - I am a buyer of this set at spot plus 15% (until filled).
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
I also collect(ed) the halfs..... I would think you should be able to buy a slabbed 69 RP for no more than 5-10% over melt I already have a 2007 proof half so there is no way I'm buying at $2000. The reality is the RP will be right at the highest of all plat mintages(unless they are avoided) and therefore will be one of the worst performing from a price point
<< <i>Platinum is currently $1436. With the 1oz in the set, at $1950, that gives ~26% premium over spot. (50% would be $700+ over). Still a large premium, imho.
$1436 spot x 1.26 = $1,809 $1,436 spot x 1.35 = $1,938
So, really closer to 36% over spot - no?
Wondercoin
P.S. - Attention flippers - I am a buyer of this set at spot plus 15% (until filled). >>
I will give you that as I was doing really quick, in my head, calcs.....but, I was still closer (off by 10% than your guess )
A scenario: I think this is brilliant. There will be virtually no takers. Collectors waiting for the aftermarket to get the RP's at 10% over melt. Then the mint stops the presses due to lack of interest sometime around late Jan 2008 after 4,000 sets. Just thinking out loud.
The non-reverse proof is worth NO MORE than 10% over spot - $1,436 x 1.1 divided by 3 = $790.
That leaves $1,160 on the reverse proof coin (what I was originally speaking about). Spot @ $716 per half oz = MORE THAN A 60% PREMIUM TO SPOT ON THAT REVERSE PROOF COIN.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
1) The burnished plats (and silver and gold) have no mintage limits and they are actively flipped.
2) Most modern commems have high mintage limits and typically do not sell out. Sometimes this spells opportunity in the aftermarket (example: 1997 Jackie Robinson gold).
3) The 30,000 limit probably solves the problems of overloaded telephone lines / website and being sold out before some people have a chance to order.
4) The set will probably draw attention to the platinum series as a whole, and may enhance its popularity.
The reverse proof move is cheesy.....and I collect the halves. Its insultingly overpriced and overhyped. I feel shamefully stupid to mindlessly buy one.......but I have no choice. It's jerky to make a loyal customer question his silly devotion, by offering multiple overpriced versions of the same coin. I mean will we have battery powered coins with glow in the dark torch next? This is really killing the goose that lays the platinum egg.......that is the individual collector. I will continue with my negative outlook rant by saying I seriously doubt that Flippers will enjoy the same bang for the buck that they got with the Gold reverse proof. Well what do I know though....I doubted that the set would even come out despite multiple warnings of impending cheesyness.
It's jerky to make a loyal customer question his silly devotion, by offering multiple overpriced versions of the same coin. I mean will we have battery powered coins with glow in the dark torch next? This is really killing the goose that lays the platinum egg.......that is the individual collector.
I agree. All the Mint needs to do is say "special finish" or "w mintmark" or "reverse proof" or whatever other gimmick they think up, and devoted collectors are squeezed again. Although I continue to feel the worst offense is that the Mint has the nerve to sell rolls and bags of circulating coins at a substantial premium over face value.
While I'm complaining, again, I think it's terrible that they are making the reverse proof using the Executive Branch reverse, which is coin 2 of a 3 coin series.
On top of that, they shouldn't be forcing the sale of the worthless regular proof coin. That might make sense with a less costly silver eagle offering, but with platinum?
Save us all $1000, and just offer the reverse proof- it's the only coin people are interested in.
Save another $100 by keeping the polished wooden box.
While I agree 100% that the 30K limit is too high, etc. I would not be surprised if they sell out quickly. As I recall, NO one on the boards was going to buy the Martha FS, the series was a joke, .... yet it sold out immediately. Of course this is 2K, but Plat. is not a bad investment.
I hope that I will be still be able to order when I get home at 16:00.
<< <i>While I'm complaining, again, I think it's terrible that they are making the reverse proof using the Executive Branch reverse, which is coin 2 of a 3 coin series.
On top of that, they shouldn't be forcing the sale of the worthless regular proof coin. That might make sense with a less costly silver eagle offering, but with platinum?
Save us all $1000, and just offer the reverse proof- it's the only coin people are interested in.
Save another $100 by keeping the polished wooden box.
Just give us the reverse proof for $900. >>
That makes a lot of sense.
I do like that it costs a lot and wished they would have done a 3 coin 1 oz set with a price so high that no one would but it, except me. I've already spent my kid's college money, why not max the credit cards out as well.
I guess we don't have to worry about mintage for now. because if you looking back, not many people have money to afford it. and also what is definition of " lift" from mint ( 10,20 or 100.... per household after 7days). so if as long as they don't remove the limit per household( on dealer buy more than 10 sets). they final mintage will never reach 30k.
You know everything in the world today makes no sense. Stock markets celebrate view of economic slowdown. Gold and Oil drop on expectations of helicopter Ben dropping rates and dollars from the sky. The mint announces a 40% mark up while trying to make us swallow that 30k would actually be possible. I mean there was just 10k for the gold reverses and we all know the sales of gold (collector base) far exceeds platinum. No way would even 10k limit on platinum reverses get similar results as the gold. Alot of bravado bs with the household limit....as if flippers were drooling to buy up the whole supply. Im insulted with the whole presentation. The only thing cheesier will be watching this get peddled by the TV sleeze.
I hope that platinum crashes at least a couple hundred bucks on December 11th. I would love to see the Mint get lots more bad press, because it would be richly deserved.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
I really do not think they will mint 30,000. It's the end of the year and everyone is thinking 2008. The platinum nuts like some of us will buy one, but most people aren't interested for the money. I think they will make 10,000 and sell it out in two days and four hours.
" I think they will make 10,000 and sell it out in two days and four hours."
Was that in a memo too? rather precise prediction. I agree that 30k is ridiculous, and its goofy to even announce it. Why lie to me?.....as with the limits announced on regular 2007 proofs-----One of the limits is a lie.
The mint has pulled this whole lie about mintages before. As I like to remind you all they did the same thing with the 1976 3 coin silver sets. These were supposed to be highly limited, but later after sales had already begun, they lifted the limits. Never trust the mint.
This issue WILL sell-out. HSN will take EVERYTHING left when the ordering limits are lifted. They will push these sets on the general public at around $5,000.00 per set. They will sell all they have.
But wait a few years and you'll be able to pick these up at melt or a little below.
Can you imagine the selling hype used by HSN? These sets are extremely rare people. Did you even know the US Mint was making Platinum Coins? Get em now before they're all gone. blah blah.....
Comments
<< <i>Doesn't this mean the Mint is increasing the mintage limit for 2007 half-ounce platinum proof coins? I think they published a maximum of 16,000 earlier this year. >>
American Eagle Platinum Proof One-Half Ounce Coin Product Limit: 5,000
how can they sell 30 sets
<< <i>Doesn't this mean the Mint is increasing the mintage limit for 2007 half-ounce platinum proof coins? I think they published a maximum of 16,000 earlier this year. >>
The mint has now lost all the credibilty that they had, imho and looks like they have not only tried to kill the flipper, but the collector as well
<< <i>Consider this folks. The LIMIT is 30k. This high mintage limit might actually work to the advantage of the collector. It might possibly keep the flipper away and reduce sales. If they cut off sales at the end of the year then there may still be a limited quantity sold. I just don't know what the filppers will do though. If they go after these then the desirability could go flat-just another victim of the flipper rabble. >>
good thought, for the collectors. the 30k limit esentially(sp) kills the aftermarket.
no matter how many they sell it's like "mint to demand" for Platinum and @ 2K a set and limit of one, these will not be anything like the gold or silver reverse proof.
(Just think of city streets clogged with a hundred thousand horses each generating 15 lbs of manure every day...)
This is typical gov't greed.
They've killed their so-called "premium" product.
Ren
There were 10,000 Gold Anniv. Sets. Limit of 10. If everyone ordered ten, one thousand people could have cornered the market.
I don't see how 30,000 people are going to order these.
Can they Mint 2007 coins in 2008 ??
A variety of early year Proof Plat coins with mintages of 7,000-8,500 still sell for less than 10% over melt (some less than 5%), while this 30,000 mintage reverse proof coin will cost between 50%-75% over melt. Could be a real shot in the arm for the early year Proof Plat coins?
Wondercoin
Still a large premium, imho.
I think the mint is doing 2 things here....
1) So many people jump and buy anything and everything they sell that they figure they may as well get the most of what they can...why let aftermarket sellers get it all?
2) So many complain about getting an order in and getting a new issue that, for something that would sell like hotcakes at 5000 mintage, maybe be hot at 10,000 mintage, they are saying 30,000 mintage. Should allow for everyone who wants one to get one, right?
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>
<< <i>For the 65 people collecting $50 proof platinum coins, this is exciting news! >>
I know both of us collect the $50. You really think there are 63 other people that collect them? >>
I collect the halves as well. Are there 62 more of us?
Eric
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>For the 65 people collecting $50 proof platinum coins, this is exciting news! >>
I know both of us collect the $50. You really think there are 63 other people that collect them? >>
I collect the halves as well. Are there 62 more of us?
Eric >>
Me too!! Add me to the list.
<< <i>
<< <i>Doesn't this mean the Mint is increasing the mintage limit for 2007 half-ounce platinum proof coins? I think they published a maximum of 16,000 earlier this year. >>
American Eagle Platinum Proof One-Half Ounce Coin Product Limit: 5,000
how can they sell 30 sets >>
Interesting... The individual halves are limited to 5,000 and the 4-coin sets are limited to 10,000. I might think that this means there is a hard limit of only 15,000 of them being produced and they have already sold approx 5,000 1/2 oz coins (individually and in sets).
My bet is that no where near 30,000 of these sets will be produced or sold...
Eric
That seems unlikely. Mint is just demonstrating that it has no clue when it comes to the platinum collector market.
The base isn't there to support 30,000 sets at 2k a pop. Heck, even at 10,000 sets they'd have a problem.
The idea of a 1 set per household limit for a week is laughable - do they really think that demand will be that high??
I see this as having no impact on platinum as a whole... a real shame.
A high priced set isn't going to attract new collectors to the platinum market, and this set will just languish until whenever the Mint decides to pull the plug.
As others have mentioned, there are only two questions now:
1. when will the Mint stop sales
2. what will the final sales figures be at that time.
I think it's a safe guess that they will be well under 10,000.
Hmm? govern, mint
Let's see... 2007 plat proof at melt is $750.
2007 plat reverse proof might be worth $100 over that, say $850.
so the lacquered hardwood box costs about $400.
sweet.
please sir, may i have some more?
I also love how they were too lazy to really think the reverse through...
Mint Employee: "Changing designs and dies requires effort... How about we just use the design we are currently running, even though it is the 2nd of a 3 coin series?"
Mint Boss: "Um, what are we talking about? Oh right, good idea." falls back to sleep
thanks a lot, US Mint.
Should be cheaper in after market.
Camelot
Eric
Still a large premium, imho.
$1436 spot x 1.26 = $1,809
$1,436 spot x 1.35 = $1,938
So, really closer to 36% over spot - no?
Wondercoin
P.S. - Attention flippers - I am a buyer of this set at spot plus 15% (until filled).
<< <i>30,000 is way too much should reconsider to 20,000 or less >>
If the US Mint wants to sell all 30,000 sets,
just add a 2007 silver dollar reverse proof and uncirculated to the set!!
SoundPoint
I knew it would happen.
That would probably do the trick.
or would PCGS limit that label to the reverse proofs?
the 2007 w platinum proof $50 coins have a very small PF70 FS population.
Successful forum transactions: jessewvu, nankraut, tootawl, levinll, mistercoinman, metalsman, adamlaneus, chuckc, fivecents, kingplatinum, jdimmick, waterzooey, moderncoinmart, bige, steelielee,
<< <i>Platinum is currently $1436. With the 1oz in the set, at $1950, that gives ~26% premium over spot. (50% would be $700+ over).
Still a large premium, imho.
$1436 spot x 1.26 = $1,809
$1,436 spot x 1.35 = $1,938
So, really closer to 36% over spot - no?
Wondercoin
P.S. - Attention flippers - I am a buyer of this set at spot plus 15% (until filled).
I will give you that as I was doing really quick, in my head, calcs.....but, I was still closer (off by 10% than your guess
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
A scenario: I think this is brilliant. There will be virtually no takers. Collectors waiting for the aftermarket to get the RP's at 10% over melt.
Then the mint stops the presses due to lack of interest sometime around late Jan 2008 after 4,000 sets. Just thinking out loud.
Ren
Not exactly - and here is why...
The non-reverse proof is worth NO MORE than 10% over spot - $1,436 x 1.1 divided by 3 = $790.
That leaves $1,160 on the reverse proof coin (what I was originally speaking about). Spot @ $716 per half oz = MORE THAN A 60% PREMIUM TO SPOT ON THAT REVERSE PROOF COIN.
Wondercoin
Looking for reasonable silver lots (rolls or bars preferred). PM me with what you have.
Just a few thoughts . . .
1) The burnished plats (and silver and gold) have no mintage limits and they are actively flipped.
2) Most modern commems have high mintage limits and typically do not sell out. Sometimes this spells opportunity in the aftermarket (example: 1997 Jackie Robinson gold).
3) The 30,000 limit probably solves the problems of overloaded telephone lines / website and being sold out before some people have a chance to order.
4) The set will probably draw attention to the platinum series as a whole, and may enhance its popularity.
My opinions only.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
I agree. All the Mint needs to do is say "special finish" or "w mintmark" or "reverse proof" or whatever other gimmick they think up, and devoted collectors are squeezed again. Although I continue to feel the worst offense is that the Mint has the nerve to sell rolls and bags of circulating coins at a substantial premium over face value.
On top of that, they shouldn't be forcing the sale of the worthless regular proof coin. That might make sense with a less costly silver eagle offering, but with platinum?
Save us all $1000, and just offer the reverse proof- it's the only coin people are interested in.
Save another $100 by keeping the polished wooden box.
Just give us the reverse proof for $900.
I hope that I will be still be able to order when I get home at 16:00.
It will be interesting.
<< <i>While I'm complaining, again, I think it's terrible that they are making the reverse proof using the Executive Branch reverse, which is coin 2 of a 3 coin series.
On top of that, they shouldn't be forcing the sale of the worthless regular proof coin. That might make sense with a less costly silver eagle offering, but with platinum?
Save us all $1000, and just offer the reverse proof- it's the only coin people are interested in.
Save another $100 by keeping the polished wooden box.
Just give us the reverse proof for $900. >>
That makes a lot of sense.
I do like that it costs a lot and wished they would have done a 3 coin 1 oz set with a price so high that no one would but it, except me. I've already spent my kid's college money, why not max the credit cards out as well.
<< <i>
<< <i>20,000 so much for platinum is rare. LOL
I will not be ordering these now. >>
None here either. 30k and almost 2k.....now that's just Stupid with a capital S. It will never sell out! >>
Many people laughed at the 2006 Anniv silver mintage..well this Plat is a buy
$1436
So, really closer to 36% over spot - no?
Wondercoin
P.S. - Attention flippers - I am a buyer of this set at spot plus 15% (until filled).
No welfare for wealthy coin dealers !
I knew it would happen.
Was that in a memo too? rather precise prediction. I agree that 30k is ridiculous, and its goofy to even announce it. Why lie to me?.....as with the limits announced on regular 2007 proofs-----One of the limits is a lie.
Perhaps 30K is actually 15K x2Link
THE US MINT IS F***ING BRILLIANT.
This issue WILL sell-out. HSN will take EVERYTHING left when the ordering limits are lifted. They will push these sets on the general public at around $5,000.00 per set. They will sell all they have.
But wait a few years and you'll be able to pick these up at melt or a little below.
Can you imagine the selling hype used by HSN? These sets are extremely rare people. Did you even know the US Mint was making Platinum Coins? Get em now before they're all gone. blah blah.....
Excuse me while I go vomit now.
<< <i>But wait a few years and you'll be able to pick these up at melt or a little below. >>
Not likely. Show me a 3 year old platinum eagle graded at least 69 going for spot or below. Bull crap I say.