PAYING FOR COLOR: NOW THIS IS A SERIOUS QUESTION

wondercoin

THIS IS A SERIOUS QUESTION.

Let's say a coin sheets around $1,000 and trades there on a regular basis, time and time again. Now, a spectacular color coin comes along and gets bid up to $10,000. OK. I understand this was a color coin and a 10x jump is possible for such coins. Now, let's say the same coin actually sold at $20,000. OK I understand this was a color coin and the 20x jump is possible for such coins. Now, let's say the same coin actually sold at $40,000. OK. I understand this was a color coin and the 40x jump is (remotely) possible for such coins. Now, let's say the same coin actually sold at $60,000 at public auction, where (2) color fanatics simply pounded each other from the $10,000 mark all the way up to $60,000!!!!

QUESTION: IS THERE SOME LEVEL WHERE EVEN THE MOST "DIEHARD" COLOR FANS OUT THERE WILL SIMPLY ACKNOWLEDGE THE HIGH BIDDER AND UNDERBIDDER NEED TO TAKE A FEW WEEKS OFF, HIKE THROUGH EUROPE AND SNAP SOME PICTURES OF THE BEAUTIFUL LANDSCAPE? I DON'T RECALL EVER SEEING THE "DIEHARD COLOR GUYS" EVER ACKNOWLEDGE THAT A PRICE PAID IS TOO HIGH.

THE KEY QUESTION HERE: IS THERE A REDICULOUS PRICE FOR COLOR OR IS THE SCALE INFINITY?


WONDERCOIN. P.S. As many of you know, I love color coins and have paid handsome premiums to obtain them in the series I deal with. But, I have also passed on several coins where the "factor of x" was simply too much. Sometimes you simply need to fold your poker hand and not chase your opponents "three Aces up" if you know what I mean.

Dog97

I think that the only thing that will prevent <<<"DIEHARD COLOR GUYS" EVER ACKNOWLEDGE THAT A PRICE PAID IS TOO HIGH.>>> is the amount of $$,$$$ in their checking account.

quarterjack

Mitch, in the past i personally have paid higher prices for toned coins, even sight unseen, but i knew the people who wrote the descriptions. SO FAR i've been very satisified with the purchases. I feel it has a lot to do with is it for resale or going into a personal collection. Beauty is always in the eye of the beholder. If the coin is attractive enough, i will personally ignore the price sheet and go after it up to a limit of financal means.It's all in what one percieves as attractive to them. (JMO)

dave

gary

COLOR,TONEING,SHADEING GOES AGAINST THE GRAIN OF PR OR MINT STATE COINS.THE COLOR MAKERS ARE LAUGHING ALL THE WAY TO THIER BANK.OWNERS OF SUCH COIN THAT ARE DEALERS AND MAKEING BIG DOLLARS SHOULD BE VERY SATIFIED....GARY

solid

These are, for the most part, one of a kind coins. Yes, there is a point where many will think a price paid is too high, but that level varies with each person. It really comes down (as always) to how badly someone wants to own a particular coin, and their financial resources.

One thing I will say, is that careful scrutiny should be paid to make sure the coin is properly graded. Wild toning tends to hide defects, and if you are paying an x-factor for an overgraded coin, that can have a significant effect on the price. Paying 5x-10x MS64 $50 prices on a coin
will cost you an extra $200-$450. Paying 5x-10x MS66 $500 prices will cost an extra $2,000-$4,500.

Ken

braddick

What I like about color coins is the grade doesn't always matter. It could be an MS64 and get MS67 money (or more) for the look- the color!

I've purchased coins I later somewhat regret but this has NEVER happened on a Monster Rainbow coin. I've paid too much- just never regreted it.

TomB

I've been at the FUN show this past week and so have been scarce on the boards, however, in my catching up this thread was very near the top so I thought I would write my thoughts. I don't get caught up in the 10x, 20x or however much "x" scenario that gets bantered about so often in threads. The cost of a monster toned coin depends on the seller and buyer and how much it will take for one to extract it from the other while keeping in mind that there is a breaking point where one may stop negotiating. The idea of how many fold should the coin go for over sheet seems simplistic and ignores the fact that each of these monster toned coins are highly individual, if not essentially unique. If you mean prices on nicely toned coins then there is a larger pool of candidates and there may be a more stable price structure. What another person pays for a coin is interesting to know but really means nothing at all to me other than knowing that a transaction was consumated for a particular item at a certain level. Also, the idea of 10x or 20x depends greatly on how much the actual cost of the item matters to someone. In other words, to someone who is a billionaire paying $10,000 for a coin quoted at $200 may be absolutely nothing if that is the coin they want while a person who is receiving public assistance to pay for their heating would not be able to afford it. Similarly, many people may agree that paying $50 for a truly uniquely toned monster that would otherwise sheet at $1 might not be too crazy a buy, however, that same fold increase would be fround upon if it were a $200 coin selling for $10,000. In the end, I don't know if a simple factor of sheet can be used as a measure of a coin. It has to do with resources, availability, relative expense and desire.

solid

I agree with Braddick.

If you have a 50-coin complete date/mintmark set, and 3 of them are monster-toned examples (that maybe you paid 5x-10x "normal price" for), what you have is 47 essentially indentical looking coins and 3 that you will truly enjoy every time you get them out and look at them.

That "enjoyment factor" is worth a price premium, in my opinion.

Ken

braddick

Another thought: Ask yourself the next time you're faced with that 20X's premium, "what would I rather own- twenty identical coins without the appeal of this single coin, or this single coin?" I bet I know what your answer is. You may follow up that question with this one, "Are there one of these Monster Eye Appeal coins for every 19 that are not?" I bet there isn't.
There are times when that 20X's (or higher) premium is a steal.

Graham

Remember when "reedededge" had those beautifully toned lightly circulated pcgs roosevelt dimes on ebay? That would make a good example, I saw one sell for around $40, without the toning it'd be a 40 cent coin and in my opinion $40 was a great price.

wondercoin

Pat: But, what do you think of the question-Is there a break point where logic blends into insanity? Wondercoin.

quarterjack

Mitch, it only turns to insanity if your dyeing to purchase a piticular piece and you know ahead of time there's no way you can afford it! Then you say the buyer must of been insane to pay X amount for that piece when the grey sheet says it's only worth X amount. Ive' passed on many toned pieces i wanted for my personal collection, not because of the high price per say, it's just on a personal basis i had to many other uses for the funds at that time! If the same pieces are available in the futureand i have the extra cash i'd jump on em'.
(jmo)
dave

pmh1nic

I think as many others have said that it's relative and a lot of factors are involved. For me personally there is NO coin I want so badly that I'd pay a 10x premium over the price of examples that are one grade lower. There is NO amount of toning that would motivate me to pay a 10x premium over a coin in the same grade as another white coin or a coin with toning that might not be as attractive. And I can only tell you as honestly as I can without being there that even if I had Bill Gates money and didn't care about the downside risk I mentioned in an earlier thread I still wouldn't pay these types of premiums for a one point difference in grade or a coin with more eye appealing toning.

As much as I enjoy a pristine specimen and appreciate beautiful toning they are only a part of what attracts me to collecting. When I think about the amount of money spent and the premiums paid over other coins that are just a grade lower or maybe not as eye appeal I being to think about what else I could purchase if I settle for the lower grade but nice example of the coin in question.

kyleknap

Mitch, to answer your question, no. Toned coins are unique, they're not like all this modern registry junk where you can buy them by the gross. Since there is only one coin in existance with that exact toning, there is no limit to what it can sell for.

Kyle

khayse

Yes Kyle, and we are each unique and have sets of skills that
are different from each other. But somehow AT&T and Ford
don't pay each of us an infinite sum. So just because something
is unique doesn't make it infinitely valuable.

Just remember, in your effort to annoy Mitch, you may be
annoying others.

From what I've seen of this discussion, the upper limit on what
a coin can sell for has at least as much to do with the disposable
income of the buyer as it does with what the coin looks like.

My 2 cents.

-Keith H

braddick

Mitch: In direct answer to your question, YES. When the checkbook bleeds dry.

wondercoin

braddick the addict, braddick the addict, braddick the addict!! Wondercoin

kyleknap

khayes, we are not unique to an insurance company, we all pay the same fees and fill out the same forms. What I mean by unique coins is that you might never have an oppertunity to purchase a similar coin, so collectors bid as much as they can for superb toned pieces.

Kyle

Chippewa

I find it ironic that at least some of those debating the merits of bidding high for toned coins are those who do not find it unusual to bid huge amounts for highly graded low populations coins minted last Tuesday.

In the early silver commem series at least, one of the fascinating things about the coins is that the series each have their own unique tones and toning schemes based on the original packaging and maybe on the chemical composition of the coins, which can even vary from mint to mint in the same series. It is quite easy to pick one out that is retoned or AT. Those that have never been dipped or otherwise mishandled and have received the best features of the original toning scheme while retaining technical perfection are truly rare and deserve to realize multiples of bid in some cases (although I agree that 10x is pretty extreme.)

For example, the Long Island in the recent Heritage sale was a unique coin.

Gembens

......wonderboy ;your plethera of shameless posts are nothing more then transparent greedy attempts to manipulate your buying and exagerate your selling . In my entire life i have never met someone more repulsivly selfserving or foul then yourself .
Shut your pie-hole once and for all and go do what your were born for , what destiny designed for you, what you`ve dreamed about your whole life - become a grader for accugrade !!!!!

pop1

Thanks for sharing that Mike. Is there more? How about a PM?