Mercy Bid vs. Safety Bid vs. Shilling

Hey if a forum member advertises a coin on the B/S/T forum or sends me an email or PM saying he is selling something I might just get the bidding started to show interest. I do that hoping it will garner interest for that coin so he gets a better price. I never expect to win that kind of bid because I am bidding low. Sometimes I want to accumulate gold or type coins or cameo proof Jeffersons or something and I will bid higher, still not expecting to win, but winning is in the realm of possibility. Anyway I always would love to consummate the deal but it almost never happens. I have clients and friends who frequently bid on my stuff - I assume they have the same attitude. To me this it NOT shilling. What say you?
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<< <i>Hey if a forum member advertises a coin on the B/S/T forum or sends me an email or PM saying he is selling something I might just get the bidding started to show interest. I do that hoping it will garner interest for that coin so he gets a better price. I never expect to win that kind of bid because I am bidding low. Sometimes I want to accumulate gold or type coins or cameo proof Jeffersons or something and I will bid higher, still not expecting to win, but winning is in the realm of possibility. Anyway I always would love to consummate the deal but it almost never happens. I have clients and friends who frequently bid on my stuff - I assume they have the same attitude. To me this it NOT shilling. What say you? >>
As long as your friend follows through if he wins with his bid, it's a bonafide bid. A shill bid, by definition, is a phony bid.
<< <i>Anyway I always would love to consummate the deal but it almost never happens >>
Based on that, it's shill bidding.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
<< <i>Anyway I always would love to consummate the deal but it almost never happens >>
Based on that, it's shill bidding. >>
So if you place a lot of lowball bids, and win something only once in a while, you are shill bidding? Please explain.
What I mean is if you advertise on the B/S/T that you have listed a 1917 Type 1 SLQ in an PCGS MS 65 holder on eBay starting at 99 cents with no reserve I will go and look. If there are no bids yet I will bid maybe $475 or something. Hey I would be very happy to win that coin and you would hate to sell at that price. I'm not actually looking for one but I knwo the value of that coin...
choice. If you don't want to, then I guess you only wanted the lot at a price you could rip it at as well. So what's the difference?
roadrunner
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for trying to get around the rules, but the original post asked if what he was doing was shill bidding, I gave my opinion. End of story.
I know what it is worth so I put a bid in accordingly (maybe a little low). Usually I wait and snipe things but I might just snipe at the end if I get outbid.
-Paul
<< <i>It's only shill bidding if you don't pay, IMO.
-Paul >>
That's sort of how I see it.
<< <i>It's only shill bidding if you don't pay, IMO.
-Paul >>
I sort of agree with that also.
I don't care If you don't really want it or not.
I bid on some junk silver below melt. Do I care If I win??
Not very much. If I win... BONUS!
So, If it's my Friends auction, that in and of itself does not make it a shill bid.
IF, We agreed that I don't want it....If I should win at my entered bid. Then that is Shill Bidding.
I personally like sniper bidding. If I win at my price, that make the day that much better.
Gardnerville, NV
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<< <i>
<< <i>It's only shill bidding if you don't pay, IMO.
-Paul >>
I sort of agree with that also. >>
ditto and i would like to add, its only shill bidding if you get caught
Fighting the Fight for 11 Years with the big "C" - Never Ever Give Up!
Member PCGS Open Forum board 2002 - 2006 (closed end of 2006) Current board since 2006 Successful trades with many members, over the past two decades, never a bad deal.
I've picked up some real nice coins, real cheap. Call it whatever!
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
If someone says they have some nice new stuff on eBay.
I have bid some numbers without even a request.
Sure. I will buy Gold for $100 back of melt all day long.
MS70 or PR70 for slabbing fees.
It's just bidding.
Most auctions on eBay seek the true level of what items are worth.
I have started things off because I know some of you have stuff on eBay all of the time.
It's just a bid.. Since I will pay for what I win at my bid price.
That is not shilling.
Plain and simple.
Many of us have thrown lots of bids around on eBay.
If, I win Cheap great. Most get knocked out with those snipers guys!
A bid is just a bid.
If I do not place the absolute highest bid on there, does not make it a shill bid.
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eBay's policy on Shill Bidding is very simple:
Shill Bidding is bidding that artificially increases an item's price or apparent desirability,
or bidding by individuals with a level of access to the seller's item information not available to the general Community.
Shill Bidding is prohibited on eBay.
=================================================================
So If I bid $700 per oz on gold coins, does this artificially increase the value of the item - NO!
And If I don't have access to the sellers account ect, that the average joe can't get at.
Still not Shilling.
So I guess we can analyze the word "artificially" a bit more.
Of course at the end of the day. We all have to feel we are playing fair.
And I can see we have a wide range of opinions on this subject.
I guess If I don't like the price, I move on to the next auction or submit a Best offer.
That is one thing that eBay added that I really like.
Gardnerville, NV
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Our Website -->Innovation, Native & Presidential Dollar Errors, Lincoln Cents and more
Check it out --> Our eBay Auctions
I've done it for board members around here and they have no idea who I am.
A shill bidder is working with the seller, they are conspiring. If there is at least one or more interested buyers, the shill is artificiallly raising the price and has no intention of actually paying. Real shillers may end up placing several small incremental bids as the auction draws to a close.
There's a great deal of difference in doing that and simply throwing out a lowball bid to start the auction.
I've lowballed many junk silver bids and usually the eBayers will pay too much and I'm not a buyer at those levels. Sometimes the seller lists it under the wrong category and I've won a few. Of course I'm happy to pay. Neither of those is a shill bid, yet both are the same type of bid.
Some folks don't seem to know what a real shill is. Split hairs all you want, but placing only one bid on an item you'd be happy to purchase at your bid is not shilling, regardless of the reason you placed that bid.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
My belief is that it is NOT shilling as long as *all* of the following are true:
(1) The bidder fully intends to honor the bid on the unlikely chance that they win;
(2) The bidder fully expects the buyer to perform in the case of winning with a lowball bid;
(3) The seller actually delivers despite the low closing bid;
(4) There is no established agreement between buyer and seller and no "quid pro quo" involved, either beforehand or after the item in question is sold.
If all of those are true, then it's not shilling.
Late shilling is trying to suck someone into paying more than the real demand is for said object.
Both are technically shilling, but the second is much more damaging to the buyer.
Dan
<< <i>No harm there but if you are in cahoots with another seller to raise their bid without the 100% motive of buying it then you are a criminal and we will find you and drag your battered half naked remains before a judge that will surely sentence you to some chain gang in Mississippi for 30 years. Sorry, but I think it is true.
Griv,
I'll keep this in the back of my mind as I aimlessly bid on things on eBay!
Gardnerville, NV
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Our Website -->Innovation, Native & Presidential Dollar Errors, Lincoln Cents and more
Check it out --> Our eBay Auctions
<< <i>I bid low in Marty's auctions quite frequently. Of course I'm sniping and trying to rip him.
Russ, NCNE >>
I notice that often the reverse is tried.
It is all based on intent... Heh... Try proving intent after the fact.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1