Barber quarters - mintmark placement

Sunnywood

The placement of the mintmark on Barber quarters is a topic of interest. In 1892, the branch mints tried to align the mintmark with the eagle's central tail feather. This placed the mintmark directly over the final "R" in QUARTER. However, there isn't a lot of room between the "R" and the tail feather - the punch has to be just right. Evidently in search of the maximum possible field space to place the mintmark, the diemakers began to try to space over the "D" in DOLLAR instead. But that looked odd because it was way off-center. Eventually, they all settled on the area above the gap between the "R" and the "D" (i.e. between the words QUARTER and DOLLAR).

Here is a listing of the mintmark placements in my collection. Of course the precise position varies with each individual die. The three 1898-O I have owned all have the mintmark centered over the gap, but the placement is different on each one.

1) Above the R (centered under the eagle's tail, align with the central tailfeather)

1892-O
1892-S



2) Above the D in DOLLAR

1893-O
1894-O
1895-S
1897-S



3) Above the gap between QUARTER and DOLLAR

1893-S
1894-S
1896-S
1895-O and all subsequent "O"
1898-S and all subsequent "S"
1906-D and all subsequent "D"



Incidentally, my 1911-S quarter seems to have a smallish (micro?) "S" as compared with my other "S" mintmarked quarters:




Best,
Sunnywood

MFH

Somewhere in the recesses of my PC, I have some background info to add to this thread.
I'll repost later.

In the mean time...thanks, Sunnywood for this thread; its very well thought out and of
course, your images are wonderful.

CarlWohlforth

I was surprised to learn about all the different mintmark placements on these coins. I listed a coin once and received email from a fellow who, with the help of his club, had extensive research on all mm locations for all dates - at least what they have identified so far. If you want to contact that fellow I could try to find his email addy (if I find it I will also find his very informative email).

STONE

great post sunnywood and a lot better than the BCCS black and white pictures.

It's nice to see some more Barber coins on here.

TomB

Excellent writeup and fantastic images, Sunnywood. Your summary of where to find the mintmark positions matches the coins in my collection. Additionally, the 1897-S seemed to me to have the mintmark placed farthest right, on average, of all the issues. However, that is simply my experience.

Aegis3

I thought mintmarks were added at Philadelphia and then sent out to the branch mints....

Sunnywood

Aegis3, yes of course you are correct according to what is generally believed. The following excerpt from an article by David Lange of NGC corroborates this and provides further interesting information:

A common misconception is that mintmarks were applied to the dies at their respective branch mints, but this would have required that each facility have its own set of puncheons. Instead, all dies were prepared and their mintmarks applied at the Philadelphia Mint's Engraving Department. Thus, it was in Philadelphia that all mintmark varieties originated, though they are indelibly linked to the mint which ultimately used the dies.

An attempt to standardize mintmark sizes and style within a given series was initiated with Charles Barber's Liberty Head silver coins of 1892-1916. Each of the three denominations had particular puncheons for the respective mints, and it was not intended that any others be used within that denomination. For the most part this system held, though there are notable exceptions. These include the Micro O half dollar of 1892 and Micro O dime of 1905, both of which utilized the quarter dollar puncheon for just a single reverse die and are quite scarce.

However, I sometimes wonder if we know the full story. For example, why is it that the 1893-S quarter has the mintmark over the gap, while the 1893-O has it all the way to the right? The placement of the mintmark between 1893 and 1897 is erratic, and suggests to me that it was not done in one central department in Philadelphia. I will have to do some further research on this. I believe some dies had the mintmarks added at the branch mints, but I certainly would have to defer to David Lange until I can prove it.

Best,
Sunnywood

RichieURich

<< <i>Excellent writeup and fantastic images, Sunnywood. Your summary of where to find the mintmark positions matches the coins in my collection. Additionally, the 1897-S seemed to me to have the mintmark placed farthest right, on average, of all the issues. However, that is simply my experience. >>



Most of the 1897-S quarters have the mintmark placed far to the right; however, there is a scarce variety of 1897-S quarter which has the mintmark much more centered (called the "centered mintmark" variety). I have a low grade one on my website.

cmerlo1

Cool...I always found the mint mark placement on Barber quarters interesting...

Sunnywood

Richie, wow, I just looked at all of the listings for 1897-S quarters in the Heritage auction archives. There are over 30 listings dating back to 2000 with photographs (although of course some may be duplicates). Out of this substantial sample, there was precisely one coin with the mintmark centered, an ANACS VF20:

Link to Heritage listing

The rest had the mintmark over the D as shown in my image above. I would say the 1897-S quarter with centered mintmark is a scarce variety indeed !!

Best,
Sunnywood

Aegis3

<< <i>Aegis3, yes of course you are correct according to what is generally believed. The following excerpt from an article by David Lange of NGC corroborates this and provides further interesting information:

A common misconception is that mintmarks were applied to the dies at their respective branch mints, but this would have required that each facility have its own set of puncheons. Instead, all dies were prepared and their mintmarks applied at the Philadelphia Mint's Engraving Department. Thus, it was in Philadelphia that all mintmark varieties originated, though they are indelibly linked to the mint which ultimately used the dies.

An attempt to standardize mintmark sizes and style within a given series was initiated with Charles Barber's Liberty Head silver coins of 1892-1916. Each of the three denominations had particular puncheons for the respective mints, and it was not intended that any others be used within that denomination. For the most part this system held, though there are notable exceptions. These include the Micro O half dollar of 1892 and Micro O dime of 1905, both of which utilized the quarter dollar puncheon for just a single reverse die and are quite scarce.

However, I sometimes wonder if we know the full story. For example, why is it that the 1893-S quarter has the mintmark over the gap, while the 1893-O has it all the way to the right? The placement of the mintmark between 1893 and 1897 is erratic, and suggests to me that it was not done in one central department in Philadelphia. I will have to do some further research on this. I believe some dies had the mintmarks added at the branch mints, but I certainly would have to defer to David Lange until I can prove it.

Best,
Sunnywood >>



The obvious question then is whether different mintmark positions were made with different mintmark punches.