I say this is a fake 1796 Dollar in a fake ANACS slab on eBay

pcgs69

Linky

Goldbully

AskRaq

Hmmmm.... if I was gonna fake an ANACS slab.... I think I'd leave "cleaned" off the insert!

tightbudget

I say so too

Aegis3

<< <i>Linky >>



Certainly fake. The obverse is copied from the 1795 B-14 uncentered bust die, date in the fake die altered.

rec78

He also has a bogus 1889-CC Morgan also in a supposed ANACS slab. Auction Link.

Edited to add-- I would venture to say that all his early bust dollars listed on ebay in that type of ANACS slabs are not genuine. But i am only a novice in the bust dollar area and the expert may not agree. JMHO. Bob

numisma

Isn't what he is doing a felony?

messydesk

Definitely "No Real." Report to eBay and ANACS.

cullenbryant

thanks for looking out.

couple little alarms in the auction format
1) "just returned from europe with some coins" - release of liability
2) "i'm really tired of paypal and their fees, I prefer Bidpay" - release of buyers protections after purchase

droopyd

<< <i>Hmmmm.... if I was gonna fake an ANACS slab.... I think I'd leave "cleaned" off the insert! >>



Actually, if you know what you're doing, it makes more sense to pawn off something that's been purported to have messed with a little bit -- when it actually HAS been messed with to hide that fact that it's a fake -- than to try to pawn something of as an MS60-something.

DennisH

The 1889-CC looks like it was copied from a 1921 coin, with the date and absurdly amateurish CCs added separately.

jdillane

Definitely the off center bust. Those fakes are better than most. AU details bogus slab and bogus coin. Very troubling indeed. This chump needs to go down hard! Wonder if the Secret Service would find this to be worthy of their involvement.

I have one of the fakes but mine is the 1795. Believe it or not, I emailed one of the Chinese ebayers last year and advised that he should send me a 1795 and that if I like it, I would pay him. One of his had just hammered at $10,000. He replied that I had to win the coin first. So, I countered that he dishonored me by insisting that I have to win the coin and pay first. Seller then asked for my address. I figured he would not follow through but about a week later, a fairly well made 1795 arrive at my door. About a month later he emailed me for payment but we did not agree on a price and I was able to reply that I did not like it since it was fake.

DennisH

I've contacted a friend at ANACS about these auctions and this thread; perhaps they can take action against this person.

BSHINC

All you have to do is look at the feedback.
Was selling Forgeries back than as he is possibly now.

Good Catch.

BILL

BlindedByEgo

<< <i>All you have to do is look at the feedback.
Was selling Forgeries back than as he is possibly now.

Good Catch.

BILL >>



Actually, he has no negs as a seller, and most recent neg was as a winner (and non-payer) for counterfeit coins.

Myqqy

ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTES for a slabbed coin. Oldest grading company out there has graded this coin so you know it is authentic and the grade as stated. Only 350,000 of these ever minted and this is the one to collect in Morgan Carson City dollars. I have purchased a few unslabbed 1889's and been cheated each time.

The seller seems to think that this 89 cc is the real deal, since he has so much experience with crappy fakes...

ccmorgan

<< <i>ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTES for a slabbed coin. Oldest grading company out there has graded this coin so you know it is authentic and the grade as stated. Only 350,000 of these ever minted and this is the one to collect in Morgan Carson City dollars. I have purchased a few unslabbed 1889's and been cheated each time.

The seller seems to think that this 89 cc is the real deal, since he has so much experience with crappy fakes... >>


How can he sleep at night??

robkool

Those holders don't look right... Even those Chinese fakes look better than this...

tightbudget

Even scarier: A fake NGC slabbed Lafayette!
Link

Steve27

I wonder if the slabs are real, but have been carefully broken open to remove the real coins.

cmerlo1

Red flag: "Just returned from two trips to Europe with some great coins." I know someone @ ANACS as well, and I'm sending them a link.

Wolf359

Reported to eBay

Doogy

<< <i>I wonder if the slabs are real, but have been carefully broken open to remove the real coins. >>




in the case of the ANACS, it is a blatant fake slab. The insert and hologram are all wrong. Chinese fake

ebaytrader

<< <i>

<< <i>I wonder if the slabs are real, but have been carefully broken open to remove the real coins. >>




in the case of the ANACS, it is a blatant fake slab. The insert and hologram are all wrong. Chinese fake >>




And some wonder why feebay wants pics of both sides of the slab.

RedTiger

It looks like the counterfeit slab problem is about to explode all over Ebay. I don't think any coin area is truly safe, though early dollars because of their high prices seem to be the current favorites. Those with the contacts at ANACS, make it clear that this is a potentially huge problem that can do irreparable damage to their franchise in a short amount of time. I think they need to do everything to hammer sellers pushing these fakes, and not just cancel their auctions.

Keep in mind that this generation of fake slabs has subtle flaws, the next generation may fix some of those problems. Same with the fake coins, they are not well made fakes. If word gets back to the factory, they can make corrections. If the decent looking fake coins in decent looking fake slabs become widely dispersed, collectors will start to doubt all ANACS holders.

mozin

<< <i>Even scarier: A fake NGC slabbed Lafayette!
Link >>



How do you know the Lafayette is a fake?

Cgb

<< <i>

<< <i>Even scarier: A fake NGC slabbed Lafayette!
Link >>



How do you know the Lafayette is a fake? >>



I am also curious of that.

mozin

I do note that the Lafayette variety showing on the ebay supposed fake is the most common marriage. This marriage alone accounts for the majority of the surviving Lafayette specimens. If this ebay Lafayette is a silver cast copy, I don't understand how anyone could determine the ebay coin a fake, by only viewing the supplied pictures.

The ANACS slab obviously is not correct. The NGC is better, but that rotated 6 on the grade simply is not right. I cannot imagine how NGC's printing machine could have accidently rotated the 6.

Tyler1924S

The Lafayette does not look MS to me, I'll say that much. Looks like damage to one side of the NGC slab. "FABULOUS"..."SIMPLY FABULOUS"..."UNMISTAKENLY FABULOUS"(sic)...? Looks like someone had a fabulous time in Europe, but may have been taken for a ride. OR, are the other comparatively less expensive ANACS/PCGS coins there to lend credibility to the fakes (and/or tampered with ones)?

tightbudget

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>Even scarier: A fake NGC slabbed Lafayette!
Link >>



How do you know the Lafayette is a fake? >>



I am also curious of that. >>



The holder is fake for sure, not certain about the coin.

Frankcoins

Fake. The type style on the front label was changed BEFORE the type of reverse security label was used.

Gemini

NGC has (ownly) slabbed 2000 of these coins, from the year 1900. Beautiful silver (commemerative) coin 107 years old.

I also get real nervous when I see bad spelling...

Frankcoins

Perhaps a scare or two is needed to make collectors realize that they MUST know how to grade and recognize fake coins.

TrustNo1

CSI: Coin Shop Investigators....... you guys are good.

RedTiger

<< <i>Perhaps a scare or two is needed to make collectors realize that they MUST know how to grade and recognize fake coins. >>



I'd estimate that less than half of collectors can grade outside of their area of specialty, less than 10% can spot a half-decent fake and less than 1% can spot a well made fake. It has almost always been this way. Talk to the folks at the grading companies and they can tell stories about some of the very high quality fakes that come through.

Now that they are faking the slabs too, it seems like the hobby is going to the dogs. If things continue on this path, Ebay will become a minefield in a few years, where no one, except experts can buy any with any confidence. Seems like the counterfeiters are holding all the good cards because each year the fakes get better. The slabs are 20 year old deterrents against counterfeiting. It is time for something new, or at least a major upgrade.

morgansforever

The CC Morgan has the comical "CC". No doubt added to the coin.

Frankcoins

<< <i>The CC Morgan has the comical "CC". No doubt added to the coin. >>



Likely hand engraved in the mold made from a 1889-P host coin.

Tyler1924S

Not a surprise that the old ANACS slab would be so widely counterfeited. The original slabs used by #1 ebay self slabber Aboncom/"Star Grading Service" were completely interchangeable with them (although the insert with the SGS was a lightweight foam-like material). The SGS slabs were merely taped together. Slabs identical to the ANACS slab were available on the open market, either empty, or with one of SGS's $5.00 "MS-70" Jefferson Nickels, etc. Either way, it's not like the counterfeiter had to come up with the thousands of dollars necessary to prepare dies for an injection molding machine. Naturally, because of this, I would always always give those old slabs an extra level of scrutiny.

timber100

Question about the numerical identification on the various slabs. If I was interested in a slabbed coin on Ebay and had the number, can I go to the different homepages, NGC, PGCS etc. punch in the number and find out if the coin matches the slab? Would that not help me to determine if the slab and/or coin was a fake?

By the way, the posts on this site and the knowledge level of coins by the various members is amazing! I come and read the various posts daily now and learn something new every day. Thanks for the education and entertainment.

Michigan

Would not surprise me if the fake slabs were coming from China and they are using people in the US as a front to try and
make the coins easier to sell since the seller is not in China which is a red flag for many people.

DJCoinz

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>Even scarier: A fake NGC slabbed Lafayette!
Link >>



How do you know the Lafayette is a fake? >>



I am also curious of that. >>



The holder is fake for sure, not certain about the coin. >>

That slab is 100% fake.

JoesMaName

<< <i>Even scarier: A fake NGC slabbed Lafayette!
Link >>



It even has 10 bids and is over $600!

Amazing - talk about buying the plastic, that's the fugliest MS62 I ever did see....

Frankcoins

<< <i>Even scarier: A fake NGC slabbed Lafayette!
Link >>



I placed a huge bid on the Lafayette, just to protect the unwary, and got this notice shortly thereafter

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eBay Listing Removed: (=IS &12361 JM158766548)
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Dear frankcoins (sales@frankcoins.com),

Thank you for your bid on the following auction-style listing:

Item number: 330186452347
Title: +RARE AND FABULOUS 1900 LAFAYETTE NGC MS 62 NO RESERVE+

Unfortunately, eBay has removed this auction-style listing. The listing was removed because it violated the eBay Counterfeit Currency and Stamps policy. All bids or offers on this listing have been canceled. Because the listing was ended, you no longer have any obligation to purchase this item. We also notified the seller that the listing has been canceled.

Sellers are not permitted to sell coins, paper money or stamps that are fraudulent or improperly described. In addition, most countries around the world, including the U.S., strictly prohibit the sale of counterfeit currency and stamps, as well as the equipment designed to make these items. For this reason, listings for these items are not permitted on eBay.

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AUandAG

"Unfortunately, eBay has removed this auction-style listing."


Unfortunatley, my aarse! Glad he got nabbed and hope, if he's the problem, he goes to jail.

bob

Raybo

Did anyone happen to look at the 1951 proof set he sold?

Ray

Tyler1924S

<< <i>Did anyone happen to look at the 1951 proof set he sold?

Ray >>



I remember that it was a 1941.

Raybo

This 1951 proof set, every coin is a buisness strike IMHO.

It also looks like ANACS has not holdered a 1796 $1.

Ray

Shamika

<< <i>This 1951 proof set, every coin is a buisness strike IMHO.

It also looks like ANACS has not holdered a 1796 $1.

Ray >>

No way those are proofs. This guy needs to be drawn and quartered.

Tyler1924S

He's at it again! Looks like he sold the 1941 proof set for $1,000.01, after two previous attempts. After he complains/uses the excuse "E-bay previously removed this listing because they arbitrarily decided that they did not like my pictures".

I agree with Ray, this 1951 appears to be business strikes.

Tyler1924S

Yes, no way they are proofs!