Holy Cow! $15,099.00 for a 1965 Topps Tony Perez PSA 10!

JackWESQ

Holy cow! A 1965 Topps Tony Perez PSA 10 went for $15,099.00 here:

1965 Topps Tony Perez PSA 10

To me, that's crazy. How about you? Thoughts?

/s/ JackWESQ

TheMcgwireMuseum

Thats a pretty steep price, but at least it looks like a bona fide 10, unlike some others we've seen recently. Not crazy about the seller though, it would make me think I just paid 10 money for a card that was probably previously a 9.

baseballfanatic

WCSports1 gets more bumps than any seller I know.
He makes a (bad) habit of buying 9's on Ebay and getting them bumped to 10's.
This sellers name with a bunch of 1-2 grade bumps made a lot of news last year.
Guess he laid low for awhile to pull the same act again...

TheMcgwireMuseum

Is he buying them off eBay? Thats the thing that would make me the most curious about the whole situation. If he's buying them in person, and feels they are undergraded and then re-subbing them, kudos to him; I think thats a wise plan. Buying the card from only a screenshot makes his success ratio seem odd.

baseballfanatic

<< <i>Is he buying them off eBay? Thats the thing that would make me the most curious about the whole situation. If he's buying them in person, and feels they are undergraded and then re-subbing them, kudos to him; I think thats a wise plan. Buying the card from only a screenshot makes his success ratio seem odd. >>



He was doing that last year.
I kept a page of all of his winnings so I could look them up past the 30 completed sales on Ebay (up to 90 days if you keep the item number)
He was buying cards and even getting 2 grade bumps from just a scan on ebay.
He turned a bunch of 9's into 10's (I mean between 20-40 cards, all big rookies or major $ cards)
The thread might have gone poof, but try to do a WCSports search in the old threads here.
Not a lucky buyer, but definately something fishy...

JackWESQ

And here's a 1974 Topps Dave Winfield PSA 10 that went for $3,538.00:

1974 Topps Dave Winfield PSA 10

and a 1959 Topps Bob Gibson PSA 9 that went for $4,376.09:

1959 Topps Bob Gibson PSA 9

and a 1969-70 Topps John Havlicek PSA 9 that went for $3,050.00:

1969-70 Topps John Havlicek PSA 9

But these three aren't too suprising though.

/s/ JackWESQ

TheMcgwireMuseum

The grades do seem to fit, they are all GORGEOUS cards. I wonder what his secret is.

bri2327

<< <i>Not crazy about the seller though, it would make me think I just paid 10 money for a card that was probably previously a 9. >>



Exactly.

Check their buying habits and each and every 10 they sell was in a 9 holder previously.

I guess some people just have too much money and too few brain cells for this stuff to keep happening

JackWESQ

Of course I don't know if it is the same thread, but there's a reference here:

Reference to WCSports Thread

to a thread about WCSports that was deleted.



<< <i> rbdjr checked in on the now-deleted WCSports thread. >>

Now I'm curious as to what the thread contained.

/s/ JackWESQ

jmbkb4

<< <i>WCSports1 gets more bumps than any seller I know.
He makes a (bad) habit of buying 9's on Ebay and getting them bumped to 10's.
This sellers name with a bunch of 1-2 grade bumps made a lot of news last year.
Guess he laid low for awhile to pull the same act again... >>



David Rayter knows someone inside PSA, in my humble opinion.

He, last year, had a string of approximately 150 1993 Refractors graded PSA 10 in a row. They were weak 9s, most of them.

This is another example of a seller getting consistent bumps.

In short, I agree with the above.

PasadenaMudSlide

He, last year, had a string of approximately 150 1993 Refractors graded PSA 10 in a row.

I remember this. More power to the man. Very curious, though. He certainly invested some coin in grading fees.

I think of the number of 9s I have parted with that would have been strong candidates for this little game.

Kind of kicking myself now.

Just goes to show how "subjectivity" and an "experts' eye appeal" have affected our hobby.

allmymoneytocards

I would have to disagree with some of the above and from the earlier post on this seller (i didn't read them all). We all know the grading process is subjective--i hate that word. I read many many times on the board on how this and that card was undergraded and should of been a 10. Maybe, just maybe, he thought the same and resubmitted a few times to get the deserving 10. No doubt that card deserved a 10. Was it worth 10K+ or even 5K, i don't think so--at least in my humble opinon (some people just have way too much money).

Regarding this seller--i don't know him and haven't bought from him--but one grade bump isn't that crazy. Now two bumps from an 8 to a 10 is odd, but how many of them did he acutally get bumped from an 8 to a 10? With the crazy grading (especially between a great 9 and a 10), i've thought about buying 9's and submitting a few time until i get a 10. I would love to hear some feedback on that. I would doubt 4sc would be a great source for this since some of there 10's are already questionable.

Thanks,
Darius

TheMcgwireMuseum

For myself, I only submit cards that I think/should be a 10. I'm about 50% right on my subs so far. I do rarely get a couple 8's, and when I do, I must say that 90% of the time I agree with the 8 after looking at it again. I also think 90% of my 9's will be resubmitted at some point as well. I've only had 1 card that I bought from 4SC that I thought the grade was generous, to say the least. I know every 9 I've bought from them before has been a solid 9, and will be resub'd at some point. I'm also only dealing in McGwire cards from 1988-up, so maybe theres less room to be 'subjective', but 100+ 10's in a row, no matter what year/issue, especially 1993 refractors (they seem to be a little tough on those IMO) seems almost impossible. I have no doubt I could crack out 100 of my best PSA 10 McGwires, and only hit about 60-70% 10's on a re-submission.

baseballfanatic

<< <i>I would have to disagree with some of the above and from the earlier post on this seller (i didn't read them all). We all know the grading process is subjective--i hate that word. I read many many times on the board on how this and that card was undergraded and should of been a 10. Maybe, just maybe, he thought the same and resubmitted a few times to get the deserving 10. No doubt that card deserved a 10. Was it worth 10K+ or even 5K, i don't think so--at least in my humble opinon (some people just have way too much money).

Regarding this seller--i don't know him and haven't bought from him--but one grade bump isn't that crazy. Now two bumps from an 8 to a 10 is odd, but how many of them did he acutally get bumped from an 8 to a 10? With the crazy grading (especially between a great 9 and a 10), i've thought about buying 9's and submitting a few time until i get a 10. I would love to hear some feedback on that. I would doubt 4sc would be a great source for this since some of there 10's are already questionable.

Thanks,
Darius >>





Fact
The guy bought the cards on Ebay, not at a show.
Fact
The cards came back 30-90 days later as 10's and the guy was turning 400 dollar cards into 6,000 dollar cards.
Not once or twice, but whole submissions.
We cherry pick our own cards and get 8's while this guy buys cards from Ebay scans and gets 10's
Period

baseballfanatic

As a follow up, the guy finally wised up I guess and isnt using his seller ID as a buyer ID
Gotta hide the trail somehow

TheCARDKid

$15 grand for a sportscard.

For that money, I'd rather charter a private jet to carmel or vegas....and maybe look at a PSA 9 version on the plane ride over there

I know we're all a little out there for spending so much time and money on cards. It's a nice relaxing hobby. But $15 k? 4k? You could do so much with that money..

cardbender

<< <i>As a follow up, the guy finally wised up I guess and isnt using his seller ID as a buyer ID
Gotta hide the trail somehow >>



I've been tracking this stuff for a year now, and pretty much all that was posted about this situation is accurate.

I've witnessed this seller/buyer buying nicely centered 8's and way, way over paying for them. Then two month's later he selling the same card in a PSA 9 holder or PSA 10 holder.

Not sure if it's luck, bumps, trimming going on, but something is
not right with this scenario.

Obviously he has a sharp eye for quality and some of us have played the crack and resubmit game too, but no one has had the degree of consistant luck this guy has in getting cards moved up the grading scale.

Goodbye thread.......

GDM67

<< <i>$15 grand for a sportscard.

For that money, I'd rather charter a private jet to carmel or vegas....and maybe look at a PSA 9 version on the plane ride over there

I know we're all a little out there for spending so much time and money on cards. It's a nice relaxing hobby. But $15 k? 4k? You could do so much with that money.. >>



I'm forced to agree. cardbender made the same point about a month ago in the thread about the '86 Topps PSA 10 Ryan. Namely that for the money laid out for that card, you could get nice 8's of Nolan's rookie, 2nd and 3rd cards, have a lovely plate of Duck à L'orange, then head on home and open up a fresh new case of '86 Topps and take your chances submitting another.

detroitfan2

Lost in all of this discussion around the seller is the fact that this is also the rookie card of Dave Ricketts. Given that, the $15 grand looks like a bargain.

Rogermnj

People who think this guy is lucky or has a good eye for bumping cards or give the whole "subjective" argument are probably the same people that leave the strip club with their wallets empty saying I think she really likes me..

fandango

hmmmm

fandango

<< <i>I would have to disagree with some of the above and from the earlier post on this seller (i didn't read them all). We all know the grading process is subjective--i hate that word. I read many many times on the board on how this and that card was undergraded and should of been a 10. Maybe, just maybe, he thought the same and resubmitted a few times to get the deserving 10. No doubt that card deserved a 10. Was it worth 10K+ or even 5K, i don't think so--at least in my humble opinon (some people just have way too much money).

Regarding this seller--i don't know him and haven't bought from him--but one grade bump isn't that crazy. Now two bumps from an 8 to a 10 is odd, but how many of them did he acutally get bumped from an 8 to a 10? With the crazy grading (especially between a great 9 and a 10), i've thought about buying 9's and submitting a few time until i get a 10. I would love to hear some feedback on that. I would doubt 4sc would be a great source for this since some of there 10's are already questionable.

Thanks,
Darius >>



Welcome to the boards Darius....i see this topic grabbbed your interest....

jmbkb4

Very interesting, "Darius."

saucywombat

The guy obviously puts a lot of money into grading and acquiring cards. This is all we know about him. He does churn out a huge number of 10's for finest refractors. I collect 93's and the lightly traded 94's. He puts out a large quanity of 10's for the 94's as well. That leads me to believe that he acquires a huge amount of raw material, b/c there would be no money in acquiring 9's from 94 and cracking or resubmitting them. The question is what happens to all of the non-10 material he acquires? You never see any 9's offered from 94 by wcsports. Maybe he sells that under a different name or has someone who buys that from in.

stevek

Cwazy - Must be nice when money is no object.

Ripken

Has anyone with documentatiion going back for a long period of time brought this to the attention of Mr. Orlando?

baseballfanatic

<< <i>Has anyone with documentatiion going back for a long period of time brought this to the attention of Mr. Orlando? >>



It got someones attention because all of the threads went "poof"

psafan

I think someone should contact the local authorities

jmbkb4

<< <i>The guy obviously puts a lot of money into grading and acquiring cards. This is all we know about him. He does churn out a huge number of 10's for finest refractors. I collect 93's and the lightly traded 94's. He puts out a large quanity of 10's for the 94's as well. That leads me to believe that he acquires a huge amount of raw material, b/c there would be no money in acquiring 9's from 94 and cracking or resubmitting them. The question is what happens to all of the non-10 material he acquires? You never see any 9's offered from 94 by wcsports. Maybe he sells that under a different name or has someone who buys that from in. >>



Hi Dave,

you're of course assuming that he receives 9s.

plifter

Some fool forked over 15 grand for a Tony Perez card? I don't understand this graded 10 vs. 9 price differential. Does the card really look that much better than an 8 or 9 to pay an extra $14,975 for it? Face it, it's a $25 card. Why not invest in some classic vintage stuff?