Any useful diagnostics for genuine 1909-S Lincolns?

Mercfan

I'm talking about the ones without those three letters on the reverse.

Also, was there a lot of variability in the location of the mint mark on the '09-S coins (sans VDB)?

jessewvu

A PCGS slabbed coin!

GrumpyEd

I think there's only 4 different dies so there are 4 possible mintmark locations on the S VDB.

There's only one S punch used for the year and I think it is the same one used in 1910 so you might compare the mintmark style with a 1910-S. Most fakes have added mintmarks with the wrong style of S.

The non VDB ones have the same S but more dies were used so there are more mintmark locations.

Tyler1924S

The only thing I have for the '09-S is in something called "Counterfeit Detection A Reprint From The Numismatist" I found it in a library over 15 years ago and this info dates back to the early 1980's. I'm sure there's a newer publication available somewhere on the internet.

ziggy29

More than anything, you need to know the proper shape of the 'S' mint mark. All 1909-S Lincolns have the same mint mark punch and hence the same shape. The mintmark can be in one of a number of different places, and if you know all of them you can see if the mint mark is in the right place. But usually, if the mint mark shape and style looks right, the coin is *probably* good.

Tyler1924S

Here are the 4 mintmark positions for the S-VDB...





Here's a link to more info with pics of correct S & V.D.B. versus counterfeit...

1909S-VDB Diagnostics For Genuine Versus Fake


One thing I would add to this, is that I once owned a counterfeit (minmark position #2). The coin was really an '09S obverse joined with an '09VDB reverse (from two genuine coins shaved in half). If you looked closely at the edge, there was one area with just a hint of a seam. I always examine the edge. As the above article states, the added mintmark is common.

Here's just one example of a counterfeit...

jdimmick

There is a small dot on the atop the inside middle loop of the S on top of the center loop to the far left just before it swings upward. It is on all genuine 09-s Lincolns.

This same diagnostic can be used to verify the "obverse" only of the s vdb, but not the complete coin as if the reverse is an added vdb , it would not tell you???

Tyler1924S

<< <i>There is a small dot on the atop the inside middle loop of the S on top of the center loop to the far left just before it swings upward. It is on all genuine 09-s Lincolns.

This same diagnostic can be used to verify the "obverse" only of the s vdb, but not the complete coin as if the reverse is an added vdb , it would not tell you??? >>



and even then, from what I've read, there are some EDM/spark erosion counterfeits that replicate the die chip in the upper loop of the S quite well

Mercfan

Thanks to all for your helpful input overnight!

Does anyone have photos of the various mintmark locations for the '09-S without VDB? What I'm hoping for is a set of images like those that Tyler1924S has provided for the S-VDB.

Thanks!