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Counterstamp real, is the host 1873 Seated dollar real? Broke all the rules, and then some.

DUIGUYDUIGUY Posts: 7,252 ✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
All opinions welcome. I can take it.

image

image



“A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly."



- Marcus Tullius Cicero, 106-43 BC

Comments

  • commoncents05commoncents05 Posts: 10,096 ✭✭✭
    If I remember correctly, TDN was bidding on this... so I assume real?

    -Paul
    Many Quality coins for sale at http://www.CommonCentsRareCoins.com
  • CoinosaurusCoinosaurus Posts: 9,644 ✭✭✭✭✭
    TDN posted this the other day.

    What bothers me about this piece is that there are no signs on the reverse of the countermark......it's almost as if the countermark were impressed while the reverse remained in the die......

    The second thing that bothers me is that the coin is much too free of marks - not how I'd expect a countermarked piece to come.

    Good luck - if it is genuine you have a very cool item.........
    Newman Numismatic Portal, www.NewmanPortal.org
  • DUIGUYDUIGUY Posts: 7,252 ✭✭✭


    << <i>TDN posted this the other day.

    What bothers me about this piece is that there are no signs on the reverse of the countermark......it's almost as if the countermark were impressed while the reverse remained in the die......

    The second thing that bothers me is that the coin is much too free of marks - not how I'd expect a countermarked piece to come.

    Good luck - if it is genuine you have a very cool item......... >>



    TDN had this piece bid pretty far up. My thoughts are he wanted out for one reason or another, so I bid because it fits my collection of counter stamped Seated collection, all one of them. If it is genuine ,,,, we will see. image
    “A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly."



    - Marcus Tullius Cicero, 106-43 BC
  • MidLifeCrisisMidLifeCrisis Posts: 10,550 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Good luck - if it is genuine you have a very cool item......... >>


    I'll second that. image
  • BigTomBigTom Posts: 305 ✭✭✭
    ok, I'll plead ignorance and admitt I don't know what a JBC counterstamp is. Will someone please expand?
  • DUIGUYDUIGUY Posts: 7,252 ✭✭✭


    << <i>ok, I'll plead ignorance and admitt I don't know what a JBC counterstamp is. Will someone please expand? >>



    1873 Seated Dollor, Zero circs struck, 300 proofs struck. As for JBC, A real idiot if the piece is authentic. image
    “A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly."



    - Marcus Tullius Cicero, 106-43 BC
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,711 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>TDN posted this the other day.

    What bothers me about this piece is that there are no signs on the reverse of the countermark......it's almost as if the countermark were impressed while the reverse remained in the die......

    The second thing that bothers me is that the coin is much too free of marks - not how I'd expect a countermarked piece to come.

    Good luck - if it is genuine you have a very cool item......... >>



    A wide countermark with thin lettering can indent the coin without bending it or pushing up the other side. The force is dispersed, instead of being concentrated in one area.
    TD
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 7,157 ✭✭✭✭✭

    1873 Seated Dollor, Zero circs struck, 300 proofs struck.

    The Red Book shows quite a few struck for circulation.


    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

  • DUIGUYDUIGUY Posts: 7,252 ✭✭✭
    " Note to self, get a Red book". or get the one I loned out BACK". image
    “A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly."



    - Marcus Tullius Cicero, 106-43 BC
  • GoldenEyeNumismaticsGoldenEyeNumismatics Posts: 13,187 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    What bothers me about this piece is that there are no signs on the reverse of the countermark......it's almost as if the countermark were impressed while the reverse remained in the die......

    >>



    That's what I was thinking
  • dorkkarldorkkarl Posts: 12,691 ✭✭✭
    i like this coin very much. looks like only a high-end au, but who cares, the counterstamp is awesome!

    K S
  • Steve27Steve27 Posts: 13,275 ✭✭✭
    I wouldn't expect the counterstamp to affect the reverse; it's not applied with enough force.
    "It's far easier to fight for principles, than to live up to them." Adlai Stevenson
  • au58au58 Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭
    The coin is good. The counterstamp is a shame.
  • CoinRaritiesOnlineCoinRaritiesOnline Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭✭
    I agree. I have no reason to doubt that it is a genuine coin. The countermarks are lightly impressed and spread apart, so there would likely be no flattening of the reverse. Looks completely legit to me.

    Interesting coin.
    John Agre

    Coin Rarities Online
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,817 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The coin is good. The counterstamp is a shame. >>



    Agree. Someone with a letter punch set put his initials on a coin. So what? How is this different from grafitti?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • dorkkarldorkkarl Posts: 12,691 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>The coin is good. The counterstamp is a shame. >>



    Agree. Someone with a letter punch set put his initials on a coin. So what? How is this different from grafitti? >>

    the difference is grafiti is random. it could be done by a 2 year old w/ daddy's gardening shears. a counterstamp preserves something of history. someone had to have machinery necessary to manufacture the punch, etc, which was not just fun & games back then. there was a thought out process that led to the coin being counterstamped, but grafiti is just a random act of violence.

    i like the coin A LOT BECAUSE of the c/s.

    K S
  • DUIGUYDUIGUY Posts: 7,252 ✭✭✭


    << <i>The coin is good. The counterstamp is a shame. >>




    So crack out and send where? NCS or ANACS?
    “A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly."



    - Marcus Tullius Cicero, 106-43 BC
  • numismanumisma Posts: 3,877 ✭✭✭✭

    The host coin is genuine and a nice looking piece. The significance of the JBC countermark could be that of J. B. Campbell of Lake Tahoe, California, who ran a liquor business and produced some tokens with the intials J.B.C. from 1874-84 (according to Rulau). Of course those were struck pieces and not countermarked coins.
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,817 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>The coin is good. The counterstamp is a shame. >>



    Agree. Someone with a letter punch set put his initials on a coin. So what? How is this different from grafitti? >>

    the difference is grafiti is random. it could be done by a 2 year old w/ daddy's gardening shears. a counterstamp preserves something of history. someone had to have machinery necessary to manufacture the punch, etc, which was not just fun & games back then. there was a thought out process that led to the coin being counterstamped, but grafiti is just a random act of violence.

    i like the coin A LOT BECAUSE of the c/s.

    K S >>



    DK---A guy at one of my coin clubs went out and bought a letter punch set and made his own counterstamps on a roll of Kennedy halves. I guarantee most 2 year olds can punch letters into a coin if a hammer and letter punch set are available. If you want to send me a draped bust half, I can have him punch your initials into it.


    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • DUIGUYDUIGUY Posts: 7,252 ✭✭✭


    << <i>DK---A guy at one of my coin clubs went out and bought a letter punch set and made his own counterstamps on a roll of Kennedy halves. I guarantee most 2 year olds can punch letters into a coin if a hammer and letter punch set are available. If you want to send me a draped bust half, I can have him punch your initials into it. >>






    image


    image
    “A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly."



    - Marcus Tullius Cicero, 106-43 BC
  • PreTurbPreTurb Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭
    I agree with PerryHall - damaged coin. If this was a Houck's (or) equivalent counterstamp, then that's different. Letter / Number punches are common in industry.
  • dorkkarldorkkarl Posts: 12,691 ✭✭✭


    << <i>DK---A guy at one of my coin clubs went out and bought a letter punch set and made his own counterstamps on a roll of Kennedy halves. I guarantee most 2 year olds can punch letters into a coin if a hammer and letter punch set are available. If you want to send me a draped bust half, I can have him punch your initials into it. >>

    ... & i guarantee that in 1873, your 2 year old would'nt of found letter punches just laying around the nintendo table

    K S

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