Need help with ebay seller
MajorDanby
Posts: 1,343
So far, my first bad experience with an ebay seller...
Here's the auction
Auction
So, I bid on the card. My max bid is the the actual winning bid.
I shouldnt have bid, as the seller has already shown a slight lack of propriety by suggesting that the buyer should erase the mark on the card, resubmit to PSA/SGC and gain extra money on the card. But, whatever. Don't bid when you're emotionally charged, as I was at the time.
My big problem is with his email after the sale...in all caps, i might add.
<< <i>
i AM SORRY THAT i FORGOT TO ADD SALES TAX TO YOUR PURCHASE.
GIVEN THAT YOU ARE IN CALIFORNIA , I NEED TO RECEIVE AN ADDITIONAL $31.08 FOR A TOTAL OF 439.03.
SORRY FOR CONFUSION. >>
Wow! I would never had bid on this card if I was going to pay an additional $31. As I stated, my max bid was the winning bid. If I knew there was a tax, I would either have not bid (I typically dont bid on big money items by CA sellers who require tax unless I REALLY want the card) or factored the tax in my bid.
So, I emailed him several times telling him that I am not going to pay the additional tax because he never stated so on his auction (in fact, he never states so in ANY of his past or current auctions). Sort of a little inane to me to not state so given that there are a ton of buyers from CA looking to purchase cards on ebay...and a lot of them would like to know if tax is included.
I never get a reponse. But, apparently, his emails were going into my junk box. His last email finally gets through to my inbox:
<< <i>Why do you keep sending messages without replying to my references to ebay protocol.
I am rapidly tiring of this exercise.
You will either show how ebay supports your position, pay for the card WITH TAX, or I will take it up with ebay and provide the requisite negative feedback.
This is last email I will provide unless you actually respond to messages I am sending. >>
His position is that I cannot "side step" the tax even though he never states in his auction that tax will be included.
Who is right in this situation? Do I have to pay the tax even though he never states so in any of his auctions? If so, is there somewhere on ebay that says that? If what he says is true (that i need to pay the tax regardless of whether he states so in his auctions or not), then i will pay.
thanks in advance
Here's the auction
Auction
So, I bid on the card. My max bid is the the actual winning bid.
I shouldnt have bid, as the seller has already shown a slight lack of propriety by suggesting that the buyer should erase the mark on the card, resubmit to PSA/SGC and gain extra money on the card. But, whatever. Don't bid when you're emotionally charged, as I was at the time.
My big problem is with his email after the sale...in all caps, i might add.
<< <i>
i AM SORRY THAT i FORGOT TO ADD SALES TAX TO YOUR PURCHASE.
GIVEN THAT YOU ARE IN CALIFORNIA , I NEED TO RECEIVE AN ADDITIONAL $31.08 FOR A TOTAL OF 439.03.
SORRY FOR CONFUSION. >>
Wow! I would never had bid on this card if I was going to pay an additional $31. As I stated, my max bid was the winning bid. If I knew there was a tax, I would either have not bid (I typically dont bid on big money items by CA sellers who require tax unless I REALLY want the card) or factored the tax in my bid.
So, I emailed him several times telling him that I am not going to pay the additional tax because he never stated so on his auction (in fact, he never states so in ANY of his past or current auctions). Sort of a little inane to me to not state so given that there are a ton of buyers from CA looking to purchase cards on ebay...and a lot of them would like to know if tax is included.
I never get a reponse. But, apparently, his emails were going into my junk box. His last email finally gets through to my inbox:
<< <i>Why do you keep sending messages without replying to my references to ebay protocol.
I am rapidly tiring of this exercise.
You will either show how ebay supports your position, pay for the card WITH TAX, or I will take it up with ebay and provide the requisite negative feedback.
This is last email I will provide unless you actually respond to messages I am sending. >>
His position is that I cannot "side step" the tax even though he never states in his auction that tax will be included.
Who is right in this situation? Do I have to pay the tax even though he never states so in any of his auctions? If so, is there somewhere on ebay that says that? If what he says is true (that i need to pay the tax regardless of whether he states so in his auctions or not), then i will pay.
thanks in advance
0
Comments
If he doesn't have a business, then he is just trying to stiff you the extra money.
If the card is being shipped out of state, do you have to pay the tax? I don't know what the rules are here.
Some one else can chime in. I imagine tax laws are pretty much the same in the USA as it is in Canada, cross provincial borders we don't pay taxes.
This is a really good question and I'd like to hear the Forum weigh in on this. As for me, although it seldom comes up that an item is listed as being sold in Colorado where I am, the few times it does and mentions Tax, I don't bid. So do you owe it? Good question. That was one of the reason's I got started in this whole Internet thing 12 years ago. Free enterprise and let the Tax man get his some other way than on my collectibles.
Neil
it's kinda like if you're in California and you're buying a car. The price tag will say JUST THE PRICE and it's just assumed you're paying tax (if CA has a car tax, that was just an example)
I'm CERTAINLY not defending this seller... i think they should have made it CLEAR that there WOULD be tax if you live in CA.
I'd ask eBay support their take on it before you proceed. eBay might be on your side because the seller did not clearly identify all potential incurred expenses.
Just my $0.02.
>
Successful transactions on the BST boards with rtimmer, coincoins, gerard, tincup, tjm965, MMR, mission16, dirtygoldman, AUandAG, deadmunny, thedutymon, leadoff4, Kid4HOF03, BRI2327, colebear, mcholke, rpcolettrane, rockdjrw, publius, quik, kalinefan, Allen, JackWESQ, CON40, Griffeyfan2430, blue227, Tiggs2012, ndleo, CDsNuts, ve3rules, doh, MurphDawg, tennessebanker, and gene1978.
>
Successful transactions on the BST boards with rtimmer, coincoins, gerard, tincup, tjm965, MMR, mission16, dirtygoldman, AUandAG, deadmunny, thedutymon, leadoff4, Kid4HOF03, BRI2327, colebear, mcholke, rpcolettrane, rockdjrw, publius, quik, kalinefan, Allen, JackWESQ, CON40, Griffeyfan2430, blue227, Tiggs2012, ndleo, CDsNuts, ve3rules, doh, MurphDawg, tennessebanker, and gene1978.
use some spaces and periods. Take a breath, my eyes are all bungy now.
Just bugging ya
<< <i>Holy crap sportitup
use some spaces and periods. Take a breath, my eyes are all bungy now.
Just bugging ya
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Tell the guy you're sorry about not responding and that his emails were going directly into your spam folder, but you refuse to pay sales tax because he had the option of adding that to his auction listing but didn't, and that you wouldn't have bid knowing you had to pay an extra 11%. If he wants CA residents to pay sales tax he needs to put that in the auction because ebay clearly puts that out there as an option when listing items for sale.
Lee
If CA has different tax rules then you should follow those. The seller has a valid point about the tax. You have a good but "not quite as valid" point about disclosure because you might be asking him to break the law by paying the tax for you, or worse yet - not reporting it. But his listing does state he is selling from CA I think you should expect to pay the tax.
There's three ways to look at this; one, you pay the tax and chalk it up to experience. Two, you try to do something illegal. Three, you try to have the sale canceled. I think given the circumstances quite a few people would choose #2 and try to pay from out of state or have the card shipped out of state. The card is very marketable and so if you absolutely are unwilling to complete the purchase than you should ask if the seller will file a mutual agree to cancel as he will undoubtedly have no problem selling it.
Kirby Puckett Master Set
<< <i>If the seller wants the sale, he should give you a $30 discount to account for the tax. If he didn't disclose the information I don't see how you could be expected to know. >>
I agree with you almost 100% BUT and its a big but lol. I would just go ahead just this once and pay it even if its not my fault just to stay away from a $31 negative feedback. I would however never buy from him again and start asking sellers from my state if they charge taxes even if their auction dosen't state so. I would agree 100% but then again I wouldn't want to risk a neg for 31 bucks is what i'm trying to say. Sure hes wrong but i'm sure he got pleanty of feedbacks to make up for his negative and that might not be the case for you the seller, you might have fewer feedbacks then the seller which makes a big difference to your overall score!
Or better yet, just tell him that you are a business and are buying it to re-sell and you are exempt from paying the sales tax.
the sales tax thing is crap. its not stated in the auction? when you did checkout, did it pop up then?
Authorized wholesale dealer for BCW, if you need any supplies let me know and I will get you a quote
According to what I can find on Ebay the seller MUST disclose the tax and tax rate when LISTING the item.
The sales tax did not pop up in my invoice. In fact, he never resent an invoice with the tax. He just sent me that annoying all caps email stating i needed to pay the tax. Apparently, he wants me to add it on myself when i checkout.
I'm thinking of not paying and taking the neg. My 100% feedback will disappear, but I'm not a big seller so that doesnt matter. What really irritates me is that ALL of his auctions dont state anything about tax. It's one thing if he missed stating it in this one auction....or even in this one round of auctions. But, ALL of his auctions...past and present...do not state that CA residents need to pay.
I will see what ebay says. Anyone know if there is a direct phone line for ebay support? I doubt it, but just in case someone knew.
<< <i> Well I guess like you said you never bid high unless its something you really like so I guess you really wanted that card lol. I don't think $31 of tax is a lot for a $400 card. >>
I said I dont bid high on a card THAT STATES A CA TAX is included unless I really wanted it. I actually dont REALLY want this card. Hence, I likely would not have bid as high as I did knowing that there was a tax. And $31 is a lot given that my max bid was the actual ending price.
thanks
<< <i>According to what I can find on Ebay the seller MUST disclose the tax and tax rate when LISTING the item. >>
Can i get a link for that info?
<< <i>You might be able to check with the State of California to see if he has a Sales Tax ID. I have one in Texas and it is public information. If he does not have one and is trying to charge you that could be 2 pretty serious crimes.
According to what I can find on Ebay the seller MUST disclose the tax and tax rate when LISTING the item. >>
I don't know much about tax law but isen't that Tax ID only for businesses? People without a business still need to pay taxes. At the end of the year when regular people(people without a business LOL) file their taxes they have to report if they sold something but thats up to the person to file it and theres no way of knowing if he does or not. I don't think anyway would hire a private investigator for 31 bucks! HAHAHAHAHAHA
<< <i>Thanks for the response guys. I emailed ebay right now with my questions. Hopefully, they will reply.
The sales tax did not pop up in my invoice. In fact, he never resent an invoice with the tax. He just sent me that annoying all caps email stating i needed to pay the tax. Apparently, he wants me to add it on myself when i checkout.
I'm thinking of not paying and taking the neg. My 100% feedback will disappear, but I'm not a big seller so that doesnt matter. What really irritates me is that ALL of his auctions dont state anything about tax. It's one thing if he missed stating it in this one auction....or even in this one round of auctions. But, ALL of his auctions...past and present...do not state that CA residents need to pay.
I will see what ebay says. Anyone know if there is a direct phone line for ebay support? I doubt it, but just in case someone knew.
<< <i> Well I guess like you said you never bid high unless its something you really like so I guess you really wanted that card lol. I don't think $31 of tax is a lot for a $400 card. >>
I said I dont bid high on a card THAT STATES A CA TAX is included unless I really wanted it. I actually dont REALLY want this card. Hence, I likely would not have bid as high as I did knowing that there was a tax. And $31 is a lot given that my max bid was the actual ending price.
thanks >>
Sorry I didn't fully remember everything I read in detail at time of posting, I went back now and re-read it again lol. Again, me porsonaly I wouldn't want the neg but thats your choice, its up to you. I actualy would be concerened with why my max bid of $400 was the ending bid? I would think that they made somebody bid it up but thats just me, not saying thats what happened, i'm saying that I would question that and not really the tax charge. But again, good luck on whatever you do
<< <i>Have the card shipped to one of your friends on the boards here in a different state. And then they'll mail it to you. >>
LOL, then there still shipping fees involved, sure not 31 bucks but the waiting and the strees in not worth it. Then what if the so called friend on this board or any friend you met on your computer dosen't send you the card? Then it would be a double tragedy HAHAHAHAHA
Heres a number for E-Bay support, you may have to bluff your way through, they say only certain Sellers get this number.
1-800-717-3229
Neil
that will either shut him up or he'll provide it.
if he provides it, I'd still refuse to pay it. you cannot change the terms of an auction AFTER it ends.
<< <i>ask him for his tax ID.
that will either shut him up or he'll provide it.
if he provides it, I'd still refuse to pay it. you cannot change the terms of an auction AFTER it ends. >>
It really is that simple. This jerk isn't worth the mental masturba... I mean, it's not worth the aggravation.
And let's not forget the Seller did not disclose the qualifier in his title.
WEASEL!
You can use the eBay tax table to specify a unique sales tax rate for each U.S. state in which you are required to charge sales tax. When a prospective buyer views your items, your tax rates will be disclosed. When your buyer goes through eBay Checkout after purchasing one of your items, the system automatically calculates the correct sales tax amount based on the buyer's shipping address and the rates that you specified in your tax table. The sales tax amount will be included in the total amount requested from the buyer.
There is not hard fast rule, but this clearly shows it is suppoused to be disclosed before hand.
As was stated earlier if the auction is changed after it ends then it voids the auction as an auction is a contract and in most States if a contract is changed without consent after it is signed it voids the original contract.
I would take this route myself if what happen to you happen to me. I am in your corner!
Good luck,
James
See Number Above.
Neil
When I reached XXX in sales they sent the phone number for support. Try it. I haven't yet tried the phone help but nice to know I can if I need to.
Mike
Here's the email they sent:
Help is just a phone call away--toll-free eBay Customer Support
Dear __**Full Name**__(**eBAy User ID**):
As one of our most loyal and active members, your membership status entitles you to a toll-free telephone number to contact eBay's customer service directly.
We're here to help if you need us, so the next time you need assistance from eBay, you can give us a call:
800-717-EBAY (800-717-3229)
This phone number is only for members like you who have been invited to participate, so please be ready to provide your member ID when you call.
We appreciate your choice to use eBay and look forward to helping you make the most of your shopping experience. Please call us if you ever need a hand.
Sincerely,
eBay Customer Support
P.S. From time to time, if we notice you are having an issue with a transaction or a problem with your account, we may proactively try to reach you. Please help us provide the best possible service--make sure we have your correct contact phone number: www.ebay.com/UpdateContact
Kirby Puckett Master Set
It is illegal for him to charge sales tax for CA, for a sale that was made in CO. This sale is considered by law to be made where it is delivered.
YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PAY STATE INCOME TAXES ON ANY PURCHASES MADE ONLINE, EXCEPT WHEN PURCHASING SOMETHING FROM A PERSON OR BUSINESS BASED IN YOUR STATE.
According to the California website, sellers are required to charge sales tax on internet sales except sales delivered outside of California (See the back page of link, under common exempt transactions.
I am not sure about Louisiana, but I am guessing that is the same.
As i have lived in California for many years, basicly he (the seller) eats it for not having it in the description as the buyer has met all parts of the agreement(ebay auction). If it becomes an issue-- ask for his re-sale license number which you can easily verify if he is current or suspended @ www.ca.gov
Before i responded to the seller, i did some more research and advice asking.
I called ebay support (I too am supposedly one of a few thousand ebay customers who have access to live ebay phone support). After a 10 minute wait, I was able to talk to a rep. He assured me that I did not have to pay the tax. He also said that before I report the seller to ebay, I should try to iron this out and reach a friendly agreement. The vengeful devil on my right shoulder told me to report the seller to ebay. The angel on my left shoulder told me to practice patience and try to communicate with the seller to reach an agreement.
I did some tax research on the internet and found this:
http://www.boe.ca.gov/sutax/faqpurch.htm
It clearly states that a CA seller needs to make clear before the sale that the tax will be included. This wasnt the case with this auction, so I don't have to pay it.
So, I emailed him back...apologized for the lost emails in the junk folder...provided, in a friendly tone, the above info (ebay call and the tax website) and gave him several options. He responded...kindly (thankfully)...and said that he will not renege on the transaction. He did ask me to pay not through paypal but through a personal check. His rationale is that he may lose out on the tax, but he can at least not lose out on the paypal fees.
I was slightly worried because a check does not have the security that paypal has. The seller has many transactions...but, you never know what he might pull. I noticed that one of his most recent positive ebay transactions was selling a 1915 CJ walter johnson BVG 6 (high dollar card that sold for like 6K or something like that). I happen to know the buyer. I emailed the buyer...asked him how the transaction went...he said that other than slow shipping, the seller was fine.
With this more or less easing my anxiety, I called (not emailed) the seller...seemed like a friendly guy...we chatted a bit about our collecting interests...and finally agreed that cutting a check would be a satisfactory conclusion to this ordeal.
The card arrived a few days ago, well packaged. Shipping was about $4 MORE than what he charged me.
The conclusion is: With a little research, advice from good resources (including the advice i got from you guys) and approaching the matter with a patient and friendly manner...things that may appear volatile can actually work out for both parties. Unless the other guy is a total nut job, one can reach a friendly conclusion with good reason, patience and courtesy.
Another lesson: The ebay help forums are a double edged sword. I got some good advice from a lot of the posters there. But, i got an equal amount of bad advice (e.g. you're stupid, pay the tax because it is the law..and other crap that posters pulled out of their asses with little thought).
Last lesson: Ebay really needs to establish a much clearer policy on this matter. All of their help material is ambiguous when it comes to tax issues. They do a great job clearly stating their policy on additional surcharges related to shipping and handling, but not a great job when it comes to taxes.
thanks again for the help!
>
Successful transactions on the BST boards with rtimmer, coincoins, gerard, tincup, tjm965, MMR, mission16, dirtygoldman, AUandAG, deadmunny, thedutymon, leadoff4, Kid4HOF03, BRI2327, colebear, mcholke, rpcolettrane, rockdjrw, publius, quik, kalinefan, Allen, JackWESQ, CON40, Griffeyfan2430, blue227, Tiggs2012, ndleo, CDsNuts, ve3rules, doh, MurphDawg, tennessebanker, and gene1978.
Now b4 you all get in a tivvy, what i meant was that i was told that my sales could include sales tax. So in essence since this seller did not state that sales tax was to be extra I as a consumer would be complelled to think that the seller was absorbing it.
So if I pay 100.00 for a card and the tax rate for his store is 10% then he takes 10.00 from the sale and pays his state when he files.
Every 3 months i would tally up my sales and then pay tax on that number. Certain things were not taxed like current comic books and some magazines if my memory serves me.
As for the issue at hand Major do you really want the card? If so you will pay the extra. If you can live without it I'd tell the guy to pound sand and I would leave him a Neg too. My neg would be concise and not emotional. I would simply state that I was unaware that tax was not included in the sale and that my bid reflected that. id also state that the seller should mention that so buyers are aware b4 they enter max bids.
Steve
edited to add: I posted my reply w/o reading the entire thread. I am glad it worked out for you.
Steve