Need help with ebay seller

MajorDanby · October 30, 2007 2:38AM

So far, my first bad experience with an ebay seller...

Here's the auction

Auction

So, I bid on the card. My max bid is the the actual winning bid.

I shouldnt have bid, as the seller has already shown a slight lack of propriety by suggesting that the buyer should erase the mark on the card, resubmit to PSA/SGC and gain extra money on the card. But, whatever. Don't bid when you're emotionally charged, as I was at the time.

My big problem is with his email after the sale...in all caps, i might add.

<< 

i AM SORRY THAT i FORGOT TO ADD SALES TAX TO YOUR PURCHASE.
GIVEN THAT YOU ARE IN CALIFORNIA , I NEED TO RECEIVE AN ADDITIONAL $31.08 FOR A TOTAL OF 439.03.
SORRY FOR CONFUSION. >>

Wow! I would never had bid on this card if I was going to pay an additional $31. As I stated, my max bid was the winning bid. If I knew there was a tax, I would either have not bid (I typically dont bid on big money items by CA sellers who require tax unless I REALLY want the card) or factored the tax in my bid.

So, I emailed him several times telling him that I am not going to pay the additional tax because he never stated so on his auction (in fact, he never states so in ANY of his past or current auctions). Sort of a little inane to me to not state so given that there are a ton of buyers from CA looking to purchase cards on ebay...and a lot of them would like to know if tax is included.

I never get a reponse. But, apparently, his emails were going into my junk box. His last email finally gets through to my inbox:

<< Why do you keep sending messages without replying to my references to ebay protocol.

I am rapidly tiring of this exercise.

You will either show how ebay supports your position, pay for the card WITH TAX, or I will take it up with ebay and provide the requisite negative feedback.

This is last email I will provide unless you actually respond to messages I am sending. >>

His position is that I cannot "side step" the tax even though he never states in his auction that tax will be included.

Who is right in this situation? Do I have to pay the tax even though he never states so in any of his auctions? If so, is there somewhere on ebay that says that? If what he says is true (that i need to pay the tax regardless of whether he states so in his auctions or not), then i will pay.

thanks in advance

torc · October 30, 2007 2:47AM

You forgot to mention, are you both residents of the same State? If so, and he has a legit business and is selling cards from his shop, then you must pay the tax, it's not his choice, it's the tax law.
If he doesn't have a business, then he is just trying to stiff you the extra money.

If the card is being shipped out of state, do you have to pay the tax? I don't know what the rules are here.
Some one else can chime in. I imagine tax laws are pretty much the same in the USA as it is in Canada, cross provincial borders we don't pay taxes.

thedutymon · October 30, 2007 2:48AM

Good Day,
This is a really good question and I'd like to hear the Forum weigh in on this. As for me, although it seldom comes up that an item is listed as being sold in Colorado where I am, the few times it does and mentions Tax, I don't bid. So do you owe it? Good question. That was one of the reason's I got started in this whole Internet thing 12 years ago. Free enterprise and let the Tax man get his some other way than on my collectibles.
Neil

Teknobailey · October 30, 2007 2:51AM

I think you do have to pay it.

it's kinda like if you're in California and you're buying a car. The price tag will say JUST THE PRICE and it's just assumed you're paying tax (if CA has a car tax, that was just an example)

I'm CERTAINLY not defending this seller... i think they should have made it CLEAR that there WOULD be tax if you live in CA.

I'd ask eBay support their take on it before you proceed. eBay might be on your side because the seller did not clearly identify all potential incurred expenses.

Just my $0.02.

dontippet · October 30, 2007 2:54AM

I don't know where it is at, but somewhere ebay says that if the seller changes the auction criteria after the auction, that you can get out. I think even things like the seller states in the auction that he takes Paypal, then after the auction says he doesn't, I think you can get out of it. Search

SportsItUpCards · October 30, 2007 2:56AM

Well I guess like you said you never bid high unless its something you really like so I guess you really wanted that card lol. I don't think $31 of tax is a lot for a $400 card. Sure he was wrong for not stating that in the auction but you must know if you purchase something from a person who lives it the same state as you, that you will have to pay taxes. If a seller is not charging taxes to people who live in the same state then they could get in trouble with the law. I don't know if you are aware with tax law but I think if they live in the same state, you must pay taxes and again I think he should definetly add it to the auctions and not try to misslead anybody or trick them lol. I think the only reason he dosen't mention it is because he has tried to add the tax info on the auctions and saw that he was getting very few purchases/bids to his listngs so he turned to this method and I don't think its right. But when its all said and done, he must collect taxes from people in the same state, you do want the card I guess because you did bid that high when you said that you don't usualy bid on high items and you really don't want to risk a negative feedback for only 31 bucks! You wouldn't want a neg with a 100 bucks LOL, let alone 31 so I wopuld go ahead and pay the extra money and guess what? You just learned a great lesson to ask any seller from the same state as you if you have to pay taxes at the end. If he says no then hey, you don't have to pay them but he surely could get in trouble for not charging taxes but thats the sellers problem I guess, I surely wouldn't tell him, hey your supposed to charge me taxes

So anyway, hoe I was helpful and good luck with whatever you deceide to do but if I were you I would just pay the 31 bucks, just email the seller and say hey i'm sorry for over reacting, I just wasen't aware of the extra charges but of course I want the card anyway so here is the 31 bucks and no hard feelings. And if you want to get him back later, just don't buy from him anymore and thats enough punishment. By the way, if you are having a hard time getting thru to him by email you can always get is phone number thru ebay and give him a call. Stay away from the negative feedback at all costs!!!!! Good Luck

dontippet · October 30, 2007 2:56AM

If you buy it, you definitely have to pay the tax unless the seller is willing to absorb the cost. But, like I mentioned above, I think you can get out of the auction since the seller changed the auction rules after the auction. Similar to the auction stating $10 shipping, then after the auction he asks for $20.

torc · October 30, 2007 3:04AM

Holy crap sportitup
use some spaces and periods. Take a breath, my eyes are all bungy now.

Just bugging ya

sagard · October 30, 2007 3:08AM

If the seller wants the sale, he should give you a $30 discount to account for the tax. If he didn't disclose the information I don't see how you could be expected to know.

SportsItUpCards · October 30, 2007 3:08AM

<< Holy crap sportitup
use some spaces and periods. Take a breath, my eyes are all bungy now.

Just bugging ya

>>

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Sorry LOL. I was always good is school when it came to writting and using periods and all that LOLLLL. But you get my point right? HAHAHAHAHA

CDsNuts · October 30, 2007 3:09AM

You don't have to pay it and here's why: When you list something for sale on ebay, you have the option of charging sales tax to people from the same state, and it clearly shows up in the auction if you choose that option. This guy didn't exercise that option and like dontippet said, he's changing the policy after the auction has ended. This is akin to charging more for shipping than is listed in the auction. The stipulations of the contract you entered into by bidding on the card are all set forth in the auction and there is nothing about the buyer paying sales tax. Ebay will side with you on this one, or at least they should.

Tell the guy you're sorry about not responding and that his emails were going directly into your spam folder, but you refuse to pay sales tax because he had the option of adding that to his auction listing but didn't, and that you wouldn't have bid knowing you had to pay an extra 11%. If he wants CA residents to pay sales tax he needs to put that in the auction because ebay clearly puts that out there as an option when listing items for sale.

Lee

clayshooter22 · October 30, 2007 3:11AM

If the sale was in MN then sales tax cannot be "hidden" in the price, it must be in addition to the price of the item. It is illegal to reduce the price to account for the tax. So, if in MN I would say you have to pay the tax.

If CA has different tax rules then you should follow those. The seller has a valid point about the tax. You have a good but "not quite as valid" point about disclosure because you might be asking him to break the law by paying the tax for you, or worse yet - not reporting it. But his listing does state he is selling from CA I think you should expect to pay the tax.

There's three ways to look at this; one, you pay the tax and chalk it up to experience. Two, you try to do something illegal. Three, you try to have the sale canceled. I think given the circumstances quite a few people would choose #2 and try to pay from out of state or have the card shipped out of state. The card is very marketable and so if you absolutely are unwilling to complete the purchase than you should ask if the seller will file a mutual agree to cancel as he will undoubtedly have no problem selling it.

SportsItUpCards · October 30, 2007 3:12AM

<< If the seller wants the sale, he should give you a $30 discount to account for the tax. If he didn't disclose the information I don't see how you could be expected to know. >>

I agree with you almost 100% BUT and its a big but lol. I would just go ahead just this once and pay it even if its not my fault just to stay away from a $31 negative feedback. I would however never buy from him again and start asking sellers from my state if they charge taxes even if their auction dosen't state so. I would agree 100% but then again I wouldn't want to risk a neg for 31 bucks is what i'm trying to say. Sure hes wrong but i'm sure he got pleanty of feedbacks to make up for his negative and that might not be the case for you the seller, you might have fewer feedbacks then the seller which makes a big difference to your overall score!

vintagetoppsguy · October 30, 2007 3:27AM

It sounds to me like the guy is trying to milk you for some extra money. If he were legitimately charging sales tax, shouldn't he have some documentation from the state? if so, ask to see it! If he can't provide it then don't pay it.

Or better yet, just tell him that you are a business and are buying it to re-sell and you are exempt from paying the sales tax.

SportsItUpCards · October 30, 2007 3:31AM

You know what, I was looking at this sellers ebay auctions and noticed he only has 2 recent feedbacks for selling and he currently has nothing up for sale. You know what that means(LOL)? That he simply forgot to add the option or he hasen't sold for a while to were it wasen't use to it. I was under the impression that he sells 100's of cards and so on but he dosen't, he just sold 2 cards I belive in the recent past and nothing up right now. Theres pleanty of times were I forget something but in my case I wouldn't make the buyer pay, I would just go ahead and pay if I forgot but that negative feedback kicks in again lol. I made a mistake about a week ago were I forgot to add shipping price for USPS Priority mail with Signature Confirmation and I noticed I forget to add it so I just paid for it, didn't ask the buyer to pay but hey thats me. Again I would still go ahead and pay the $31 tax and just learn from it. Just don't forget about this problem like I forgot to add the shipping charges another 2 or 3 times after the first time I made the mistake LOLL

BobaFett72 · October 30, 2007 3:32AM

i find it odd that this guy hasnt sold anything on ebay for just over a year (check his feedback) he has bought lots of stuff, but only sold a few items recently.

the sales tax thing is crap. its not stated in the auction? when you did checkout, did it pop up then?

bhelser · October 30, 2007 3:35AM

The seller did not disclose the tax in the auction....he should cover it as a courtesy. This is totally different than walking into a car dealership and the tax is not advertised....Ebay has sellers from all over the world, many of whom do not charge taxes. It is the sellers responsibilty to disclose any taxes/fees associated with the auction. If you really want the card, pay the $31, and note the tax issue in your feedback, if you don't want the card that badly take it up with Ebay.

Leiascards · October 30, 2007 3:38AM

You might be able to check with the State of California to see if he has a Sales Tax ID. I have one in Texas and it is public information. If he does not have one and is trying to charge you that could be 2 pretty serious crimes.

According to what I can find on Ebay the seller MUST disclose the tax and tax rate when LISTING the item.

EchoCanyon · October 30, 2007 3:39AM

Have the card shipped to one of your friends on the boards here in a different state. And then they'll mail it to you.

MajorDanby · October 30, 2007 3:41AM

Thanks for the response guys. I emailed ebay right now with my questions. Hopefully, they will reply.

The sales tax did not pop up in my invoice. In fact, he never resent an invoice with the tax. He just sent me that annoying all caps email stating i needed to pay the tax. Apparently, he wants me to add it on myself when i checkout.

I'm thinking of not paying and taking the neg. My 100% feedback will disappear, but I'm not a big seller so that doesnt matter. What really irritates me is that ALL of his auctions dont state anything about tax. It's one thing if he missed stating it in this one auction....or even in this one round of auctions. But, ALL of his auctions...past and present...do not state that CA residents need to pay.

I will see what ebay says. Anyone know if there is a direct phone line for ebay support? I doubt it, but just in case someone knew.

<< Well I guess like you said you never bid high unless its something you really like so I guess you really wanted that card lol. I don't think $31 of tax is a lot for a $400 card. >>

I said I dont bid high on a card THAT STATES A CA TAX is included unless I really wanted it. I actually dont REALLY want this card. Hence, I likely would not have bid as high as I did knowing that there was a tax. And $31 is a lot given that my max bid was the actual ending price.

thanks

MajorDanby · October 30, 2007 3:42AM

<< According to what I can find on Ebay the seller MUST disclose the tax and tax rate when LISTING the item. >>

Can i get a link for that info?

SportsItUpCards · October 30, 2007 3:44AM

<< You might be able to check with the State of California to see if he has a Sales Tax ID. I have one in Texas and it is public information. If he does not have one and is trying to charge you that could be 2 pretty serious crimes.

According to what I can find on Ebay the seller MUST disclose the tax and tax rate when LISTING the item. >>

I don't know much about tax law but isen't that Tax ID only for businesses? People without a business still need to pay taxes. At the end of the year when regular people(people without a business LOL) file their taxes they have to report if they sold something but thats up to the person to file it and theres no way of knowing if he does or not. I don't think anyway would hire a private investigator for 31 bucks! HAHAHAHAHAHA

SportsItUpCards · October 30, 2007 3:49AM

<< Thanks for the response guys. I emailed ebay right now with my questions. Hopefully, they will reply.

The sales tax did not pop up in my invoice. In fact, he never resent an invoice with the tax. He just sent me that annoying all caps email stating i needed to pay the tax. Apparently, he wants me to add it on myself when i checkout.

I'm thinking of not paying and taking the neg. My 100% feedback will disappear, but I'm not a big seller so that doesnt matter. What really irritates me is that ALL of his auctions dont state anything about tax. It's one thing if he missed stating it in this one auction....or even in this one round of auctions. But, ALL of his auctions...past and present...do not state that CA residents need to pay.

I will see what ebay says. Anyone know if there is a direct phone line for ebay support? I doubt it, but just in case someone knew.

<< Well I guess like you said you never bid high unless its something you really like so I guess you really wanted that card lol. I don't think $31 of tax is a lot for a $400 card. >>

I said I dont bid high on a card THAT STATES A CA TAX is included unless I really wanted it. I actually dont REALLY want this card. Hence, I likely would not have bid as high as I did knowing that there was a tax. And $31 is a lot given that my max bid was the actual ending price.

thanks >>

Sorry I didn't fully remember everything I read in detail at time of posting, I went back now and re-read it again lol. Again, me porsonaly I wouldn't want the neg but thats your choice, its up to you. I actualy would be concerened with why my max bid of $400 was the ending bid? I would think that they made somebody bid it up but thats just me, not saying thats what happened, i'm saying that I would question that and not really the tax charge. But again, good luck on whatever you do

SportsItUpCards · October 30, 2007 3:53AM

<< Have the card shipped to one of your friends on the boards here in a different state. And then they'll mail it to you. >>

LOL, then there still shipping fees involved, sure not 31 bucks but the waiting and the strees in not worth it. Then what if the so called friend on this board or any friend you met on your computer dosen't send you the card? Then it would be a double tragedy HAHAHAHAHA

MajorDanby · October 30, 2007 4:01AM

ive contacted ebay and will go through them first before i take action against this guy.

thedutymon · October 30, 2007 4:02AM

Good day,
Heres a number for E-Bay support, you may have to bluff your way through, they say only certain Sellers get this number.

1-800-717-3229

Neil

goose3 · October 30, 2007 4:03AM

ask him for his tax ID.

that will either shut him up or he'll provide it.

if he provides it, I'd still refuse to pay it. you cannot change the terms of an auction AFTER it ends.

stown · October 30, 2007 4:17AM

<< ask him for his tax ID.

that will either shut him up or he'll provide it.

if he provides it, I'd still refuse to pay it. you cannot change the terms of an auction AFTER it ends. >>

It really is that simple. This jerk isn't worth the mental masturba... I mean, it's not worth the aggravation.

And let's not forget the Seller did not disclose the qualifier in his title.

WEASEL!

Leiascards · October 30, 2007 4:21AM

Text

You can use the eBay tax table to specify a unique sales tax rate for each U.S. state in which you are required to charge sales tax. When a prospective buyer views your items, your tax rates will be disclosed. When your buyer goes through eBay Checkout after purchasing one of your items, the system automatically calculates the correct sales tax amount based on the buyer's shipping address and the rates that you specified in your tax table. The sales tax amount will be included in the total amount requested from the buyer.

There is not hard fast rule, but this clearly shows it is suppoused to be disclosed before hand.

As was stated earlier if the auction is changed after it ends then it voids the auction as an auction is a contract and in most States if a contract is changed without consent after it is signed it voids the original contract.

flyerfan27 · October 30, 2007 4:23AM

eBay states they do not offer a phone number for help, but do offer Live Support! Just goto www.ebay.com and in the upper right hand corner you will see a link saying: "Live Help". Click on that link and you can get immediate help!

I would take this route myself if what happen to you happen to me. I am in your corner!

Good luck,
James

flyerfan27 · October 30, 2007 4:28AM

I forgot to add! If you do get the card; do not do what the seller said about erasing the mark. The graders will see it and you will never get the card graded again. They will say the card was tampered with!

thedutymon · October 30, 2007 4:30AM

Right and Wrong about phone support,
See Number Above.
Neil

clayshooter22 · October 30, 2007 5:18AM

Neil is right about the phone help.

When I reached XXX in sales they sent the phone number for support. Try it. I haven't yet tried the phone help but nice to know I can if I need to.

Mike

Here's the email they sent:

Help is just a phone call away--toll-free eBay Customer Support

Dear __**Full Name**__(**eBAy User ID**):

As one of our most loyal and active members, your membership status entitles you to a toll-free telephone number to contact eBay's customer service directly.

We're here to help if you need us, so the next time you need assistance from eBay, you can give us a call:

800-717-EBAY (800-717-3229)
This phone number is only for members like you who have been invited to participate, so please be ready to provide your member ID when you call.

We appreciate your choice to use eBay and look forward to helping you make the most of your shopping experience. Please call us if you ever need a hand.

Sincerely,

eBay Customer Support

P.S. From time to time, if we notice you are having an issue with a transaction or a problem with your account, we may proactively try to reach you. Please help us provide the best possible service--make sure we have your correct contact phone number: www.ebay.com/UpdateContact

colebear · October 30, 2007 5:19AM

If you purchased the card and you live in Colorado and the seller lives in California, then you do not have to pay CA state sales taxes. He is required by law to include the sale on his income tax return, unless he does have a sales tax number, even then though he is .

It is illegal for him to charge sales tax for CA, for a sale that was made in CO. This sale is considered by law to be made where it is delivered.

YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PAY STATE INCOME TAXES ON ANY PURCHASES MADE ONLINE, EXCEPT WHEN PURCHASING SOMETHING FROM A PERSON OR BUSINESS BASED IN YOUR STATE.

Leiascards · October 30, 2007 6:33AM

[NM misread what I was reading.

colebear · October 30, 2007 6:41AM

Leia,

According to the California website, sellers are required to charge sales tax on internet sales except sales delivered outside of California (See the back page of link, under common exempt transactions.

I am not sure about Louisiana, but I am guessing that is the same.

Carew29 · October 30, 2007 7:35AM

As i have lived in California for many years, basicly he (the seller) eats it for not having it in the description as the buyer has met all parts of the agreement(ebay auction). If it becomes an issue-- ask for his re-sale license number which you can easily verify if he is current or suspended @ www.ca.gov

MajorDanby · November 21, 2007 4:11AM

Thanks for all the help. Here is what happened after I got your advice.

Before i responded to the seller, i did some more research and advice asking.

I called ebay support (I too am supposedly one of a few thousand ebay customers who have access to live ebay phone support). After a 10 minute wait, I was able to talk to a rep. He assured me that I did not have to pay the tax. He also said that before I report the seller to ebay, I should try to iron this out and reach a friendly agreement. The vengeful devil on my right shoulder told me to report the seller to ebay. The angel on my left shoulder told me to practice patience and try to communicate with the seller to reach an agreement.

I did some tax research on the internet and found this:

http://www.boe.ca.gov/sutax/faqpurch.htm

It clearly states that a CA seller needs to make clear before the sale that the tax will be included. This wasnt the case with this auction, so I don't have to pay it.

So, I emailed him back...apologized for the lost emails in the junk folder...provided, in a friendly tone, the above info (ebay call and the tax website) and gave him several options. He responded...kindly (thankfully)...and said that he will not renege on the transaction. He did ask me to pay not through paypal but through a personal check. His rationale is that he may lose out on the tax, but he can at least not lose out on the paypal fees.

I was slightly worried because a check does not have the security that paypal has. The seller has many transactions...but, you never know what he might pull. I noticed that one of his most recent positive ebay transactions was selling a 1915 CJ walter johnson BVG 6 (high dollar card that sold for like 6K or something like that). I happen to know the buyer. I emailed the buyer...asked him how the transaction went...he said that other than slow shipping, the seller was fine.

With this more or less easing my anxiety, I called (not emailed) the seller...seemed like a friendly guy...we chatted a bit about our collecting interests...and finally agreed that cutting a check would be a satisfactory conclusion to this ordeal.

The card arrived a few days ago, well packaged. Shipping was about $4 MORE than what he charged me.

The conclusion is: With a little research, advice from good resources (including the advice i got from you guys) and approaching the matter with a patient and friendly manner...things that may appear volatile can actually work out for both parties. Unless the other guy is a total nut job, one can reach a friendly conclusion with good reason, patience and courtesy.

Another lesson: The ebay help forums are a double edged sword. I got some good advice from a lot of the posters there. But, i got an equal amount of bad advice (e.g. you're stupid, pay the tax because it is the law..and other crap that posters pulled out of their asses with little thought).

Last lesson: Ebay really needs to establish a much clearer policy on this matter. All of their help material is ambiguous when it comes to tax issues. They do a great job clearly stating their policy on additional surcharges related to shipping and handling, but not a great job when it comes to taxes.

thanks again for the help!

EagleEyeKid · November 21, 2007 4:49AM

Glad it worked out.

dontippet · November 21, 2007 4:52AM

I'm glad everything worked out. I agree that most people on ebay are good people and most problems can be eventually worked out.

WinPitcher · November 21, 2007 8:14AM

When i had a store back in the 80's i never charged sales tax and was told( BY NYS)That I did not have to
Now b4 you all get in a tivvy, what i meant was that i was told that my sales could include sales tax. So in essence since this seller did not state that sales tax was to be extra I as a consumer would be complelled to think that the seller was absorbing it.

So if I pay 100.00 for a card and the tax rate for his store is 10% then he takes 10.00 from the sale and pays his state when he files.

Every 3 months i would tally up my sales and then pay tax on that number. Certain things were not taxed like current comic books and some magazines if my memory serves me.

As for the issue at hand Major do you really want the card? If so you will pay the extra. If you can live without it I'd tell the guy to pound sand and I would leave him a Neg too. My neg would be concise and not emotional. I would simply state that I was unaware that tax was not included in the sale and that my bid reflected that. id also state that the seller should mention that so buyers are aware b4 they enter max bids.

Steve

edited to add: I posted my reply w/o reading the entire thread. I am glad it worked out for you.

Steve

Need help with ebay seller

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