Interesting 2007 P SMS Sac Dollar - Double Strike or MDD?

Russellhome

I found an interesting 2007 P Sac dollar in the batch of mint sets I received last week. It had what I thought was the worst case of mechanical doubling I'd ever seen. But after a closer look - it was certainly different than any regular MDD I'd seen. The doubling was rotational and even on all the letters near the rim on both sides of the coin. I thought it might be something else - so I created a post for it on another forum. It turns out it just might not be MDD after all.

I took a bunch of photos, and rather than post them all again, here is a link to that post on the coppercoins.com site...

Link to post with photos

And I'll include this one image as a teaser...



What are the chances that PCGS (or any other major grading service) will slab this as a double strike -- as opposed to a body bag as MDD? This forum gets more traffic - and I'd like to hear what you all think of this different sort of Sac.

tahoe98

interesting

pf70collector

link is not functioning.

guitarwes

I tell ya, that first picture is very very interesting. Good find.

I'll let the pro's chime in on what they think it is.

commoncents05

Link.

-Paul

pf70collector

cool something to look out in my mints sets. Only opened two so far out of 10.

UTTM07

This should be it.


link to thread

Gemineye

Nice photos and good observation...!!

Manorcourtman

Thanks for sharing! Very nice find!

Russellhome

<< <i>link is not functioning. >>



I fixed it - sorry about that.

dcarr

Double struck error.

Russellhome

<< <i>Double struck error. >>



That is what I want to hear. Somehow, I thought I'd get a lot of "MDD all the way" comments. If it is MDD - it is really different. But I just could not see how the doubling could happen as it appears without a two separate strikes. I'm hoping I can get it slabbed that way.

BTW: DCARR - I looked on your page and saw your quarter designs. Belated congrats on the two selected designs. Bummer that that engraver gets the initials recognition - not the designer. IMO, some of your unselected designs are better than the versions that were used for those states.

FYI: My server was down for a while - so the photos didn't show up. It is up again.

reds

Just to show that doubling can happen far apart and not be double struck

Russellhome

Now that is just plain spookie -- a 3 eyed Sac! I wonder how that happened?

Russellhome

No expert opinions on this one? It looks a lot like MDD and the first attributors I showed photos to said it was MDD. But if you read any of the debate on the Coppercoins forum -- the argument ended with a lean towards double struck in collar. If this coin stands a chance at getting slabbed as double struck - I'll send it in. But if it will just be body bagged as MDD - I'd rather not waste my money.

Also -- a question... Are the satin finish coins produced with a single strike -- or does the mint double strike these mint set coins for a deeper/sharper image? Anybody know?

cmerlo1

I'm no expert. What I see is doubling on the lettering that looks like strike doubling, mixed with non-strike doubled incuse elements, such as the designer's initials. I think it's double-struck in collar...

--Christian

Gemineye

<< <i>No expert opinions on this one? It looks a lot like MDD and the first attributors I showed photos to said it was MDD. But if you read any of the debate on the Coppercoins forum -- the argument ended with a lean towards double struck in collar. If this coin stands a chance at getting slabbed as double struck - I'll send it in. But if it will just be body bagged as MDD - I'd rather not waste my money.

Also -- a question... Are the satin finish coins produced with a single strike -- or does the mint double strike these mint set coins for a deeper/sharper image? Anybody know? >>


I'm really suprised no one can come up with a definite and complete answer as to whether the mint set coins are double struck or not.I would venture to guess they are considering the supposed quality of them.In looking at all the pictures of your Sac it would indicate a double strike coin indeed..

Russellhome

Double strike or otherwise, this coin did make the current issue of Coin World (Nov 19, 2007 Pg 122). I sent the coin to Mike Diamond (CONECA)-- and he believes it to be a true double strike in collar. I've solicited the opinions of a few other DV and Error Coin pros -- and based on photos I did, are inclined to believe it is mechanical doubling. But interestingly enough, that was Mike Diamonds opinion too - before he saw the coin in hand and under a microscope. So I guess the only way I can find out if it will be graded as a double strike is to try -- and hope the examiner sees it as Mike D. does.

It is cool that the coin made CW -- but they need to learn to crop photos. They shrunk my images down so much that there is not much to see. Here are links to the full size images -- much more impressive.

Reverse Photo 1

Reverse Photo 2

Reverse Photo 3

Reverse Photo 4

Obverse Photo 1

Obverse Photo 2

Obverse Photo 3

Obverse Photo 4

Obverse Photo 5

Mike Diamond posted his findings on the Coppercoins.com thread I started. If you are intersted it reading why he thinks it is a D/S and not MD, here is a link...

Link to Coppercoins.com Forum

He is also doing an article for Errorscope on it, with a more detailed analysis.

pf70collector

Cool pics. Thanks for sharing.