1969-S DDO 1c new discovery....anyone else see the story
Manorcourtman
Posts: 8,035 ✭✭✭✭✭
Sorry if this had already been posted but has anyone else seen this story? Found in an original roll it looks at least 64RD although they don't post any opinion on the grade. What a find!! Just goes to prove moderns minted in the millions even ultra rare errors can still be found. Wouldn't it be something if several hundred were still out there.......it can happen. Wouldn't that put a dent in this coins market value!!
Edited it add it's a Lincoln 1c for those that don't follow errors.
Edited it add it's a Lincoln 1c for those that don't follow errors.
0
Comments
-Paul
for obscure strange errors must be almost assured.
the amazing part is that the right person who was educated enough
was actually looking for those strange errors.. not the errors existing.
interesting post! thanks for sharing. i did not hear of it.
for obscure strange errors must be almost assured."
You may not be familiar with varieties, but this is the farthest thing from an obscure strange error.
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
One more coin is not going to make a difference in the price. The fact is that there are only few examples and this are getting very hard to get.
Keith
yea, i know where you are coming from. i just wanted to make the
point that the collector finding it among the millions/billions and
recognizing what it is.. is the amazing part. not the error itself ;-)
compromonedas, well shucks man, it sounds like you did not share
your find with the media?
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>You may not be familiar with varieties, but this is the farthest thing from an obscure strange error.
yea, i know where you are coming from. i just wanted to make the
point that the collector finding it among the millions/billions and
recognizing what it is.. is the amazing part. not the error itself ;-)
compromonedas, well shucks man, it sounds like you did not share
your find with the media? >>
I wish I found mine! I have to pay few dollars for it
Keith
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>Neat coin. What do these sell for? >>
Lets say it sell above PCGS price guide, if you find a seller(this is the hard part)
Keith
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
That is the find of a lifetime.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
Edited to translate into English from my native Jibberish.
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
<< <i>Great! Just few months after I got this baby!
One more coin is not going to make a difference in the price. The fact is that there are only few examples and this are getting very hard to get.
Keith
Is that a 63 or 64 RB?
Rob
"Those guys weren't Fathers they were...Mothers."
<< <i>
<< <i>Neat coin. What do these sell for? >>
Lets say it sell above PCGS price guide, if you find a seller(this is the hard part)
Keith
i really don't think you'd have a hard time finding a buyer............being it is a lincoln and the big interest of lincolns getting more and more popular every coming day.
steve
<< <i>
<< <i>Great! Just few months after I got this baby!
One more coin is not going to make a difference in the price. The fact is that there are only few examples and this are getting very hard to get.
Keith
Is that a 63 or 64 RB? >>
In fact is going to PCGS for a regrade this week.
Keith
<< <i>
In fact is going to PCGS for a regrade this week.
Keith
Are you hoping for a 62/ 63? It does appear to be a regrade candidate.
<< <i>
<< <i>
In fact is going to PCGS for a regrade this week.
Keith
Are you hoping for a 62/ 63? It does appear to be a regrade candidate. >>
Several people who look at the coin grade it at least a 62.
Keith
Dude, that 41k is looking like a worse and worse deal. Su*2BU.
<< <i>"Great! Just few months after I got this baby!"
Dude, that 41k is looking like a worse and worse deal. Su*2BU.
So now you are posting my PM and laughing at it. I have no regrets on this coin.
Keith
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
<< <i>Anyone here know if any of the reported specimens came out of Mint sets? >>
They don't appear in mint sets.
there are just as nearly as many 70-s doubled dies in population as the 69-s ...well almost as many....(36 total for70-s..............24 for 69-s)
and now they've discovered a 25th.
it takes literally no resources to list the 70-s doubled die in the population report ....zero resources online.
AND YET! ......................ITS REQUIRED FOR THE REGISTRY SET!...but they still refuse to give it the numismatic respect it deserves by listing it!
...and so because its NOT listed where it could be EASILY found...(you can find it if you actually KNOW that its llisted in a stupid subset.)
but there's nothing there to really draw your attention to that fact.
the VALUE placed upon this exceedingly RARE coin... is less than one tenth the value of the 69-s in the same grades.
this really burns my mellon!
<< <i>now heres a real kicker...
there are just as nearly as many 70-s doubled dies in population as the 69-s ...well almost as many....(36 total for70-s..............24 for 69-s)
and now they've discovered a 25th.
it takes literally no resources to list the 70-s doubled die in the population report ....zero resources online.
AND YET! ......................ITS REQUIRED FOR THE REGISTRY SET!...but they still refuse to give it the numismatic respect it deserves by listing it!
...and so because its NOT listed where it could be EASILY found...(you can find it if you actually KNOW that its llisted in a stupid subset.)
but there's nothing there to really draw your attention to that fact.
the VALUE placed upon this exceedingly RARE coin... is less than one tenth the value of the 69-s in the same grades.
this really burns my mellon!
Thanks for the info!
<< <i>I look for one whenever I find a 69-S in circulation...dang it!
I don't have it either, but I bet it goes a little bit...like...this! Maestro?
"I bought a roll a pennies, they were 1969-s.
I found a 1969-s double die. I called Coin World."
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
find any evidence of ejaculant?
<< <i> I found a 1969-s double die. I called Coin World. >>
Nope. The guy called Ken Potter. I found a little more info without having to shell out bucks for a subscription.
'69-S Found in Roll
Keith
FWIW, if that were me who found that coin, Ken Potter would have been my second call. The first call would have gone to the person I bought the OBW roll from, to see if he had any more.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Great! Just few months after I got this baby!
One more coin is not going to make a difference in the price. The fact is that there are only few examples and this are getting very hard to get.
Keith
Is that a 63 or 64 RB? >>
In fact is going to PCGS for a regrade this week.
Keith
Wow,
I thought that was at least a MS63 an MS62 at worst. I guess I will continue to work on my grading skills!
Rob
"Those guys weren't Fathers they were...Mothers."
- October 25, 2007
Yes, you can still find valuable coins. Professional Coin Grading Service has certified a recently discovered modern rarity, a 1969 San Francisco Mint doubled die obverse Lincoln Cent. It’s graded PCGS Mint State 64 Red and tied for the finest known!
The coin was discovered by Michigan collector, Michael Tremonti, who was examining two rolls of uncirculated 1969-S cents on October 3. After consulting with well-known error-variety expert, Ken Potter, Tremonti submitted the coin to PCGS.
“I was totally amazed that this coin could turn up out of nowhere. The coin is completely original and full mint red. It’s a beautiful near-Gem example,” said David Hall, PCGS co-founder and president of Collectors Universe, Inc. (NASDAQ: CLCT). “What an incredible find! This could be a six-figure coin.”
Including this latest discovery piece, the PCGS Population Report indicates only 23 1969-S doubled die cents from Very Fine to MS-64, and only two are graded Mint State Red.
The coin discovered by Tremonti has strong doubling on the obverse in the date, 1969, and the words, LIBERTY and IN GOD WE TRUST. It’s described by Potter as “a Class I Rotated Hub with counter-clockwise doubling.”
A1969-S doubled die cent, graded PCGS MS-64 Red Brown was sold for $85,100 in the Bowers and Merena Auctions sale in August. The Tremonti coin is full red, tied for finest known with one other MS-64 Red, and with no higher grade examples in the PCGS Population Report.
PCGS
A great story about my favorite memorial cent.
By Numismatic News
October 24, 2007
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Error-variety columnist and coin dealer Ken Potter of Michigan reports what may be a $100,000 find of a 1969-S doubled-die obverse #1 Lincoln cent. He said that a "local collector" cherry-picked a specimen from out of an uncirculated roll on Oct. 6. The coin was consigned to Potter and is currently at Professional Coin Grading Service of Newport Beach, Calif., for certification and grading. He feels that it may very well tie for the finest piece graded or exceed it. He says that it appears to be just one of two mint state specimens known that is full red.
According to Potter, there are just 38 examples certified among the three major grading services that publish population reports. Most of those coins are circulated. Since many coins of this stature are crossed over to anther grading service (or cracked out and resubmitted to the same service) by owners hoping to get a higher grade, or having a personal preference for one service over another, the actual number of specimens in collector hands may be far less, perhaps as few as 25 pieces, Potter estimates. He said that a local Michigan collector Michael Tremonti found the coin while searching uncirculated rolls of cents. After opening an uncirculated roll of 1969-S cents, he searched through more than half the coins before he spotted what he knew had to be a 1969-S doubled die. Tremonti told Potter that he was able to spot it with the naked eye and said he knew it was a very valuable coin but didn't know how much its current value was. Hoping to learn more, he immediately contacted Potter knowing that he specializes in rare die varieties and was local.
Potter said, having never met Tremonti, "I am unaware of his level of expertise, so just assumed the find was one of the exceedingly common examples of strike doubling encountered on this date. This date (along with the 1968-S and 1970-S cents) is the most notorious for this form of doubling damage occurring on Lincoln cents. I advised him of this but he shrugged it off as not being what he found. As I talked to him further he seemed to be knowledgeable with the subject. It seemed that for once there was a possibility that one of the folks making the common claim of finding a 1969-S doubled-die cent might have actually done so. To my surprise, the coin turned out to be a beautiful brilliant uncirculated example of variety."
The 1969-S doubled die cent has an interesting history in that shortly after it was discovered in 1970, examples sent into the U.S. Treasury Department for verification were subsequently declared counterfeits and confiscated. Several respected hobby representatives continued to insist that they were genuine based on where they were found and on the diagnostics exhibited on the coins.
As it turned out, the counterfeits were actually dated 1969 (with no mintmark) and were produced to defraud collectors. According to John Wexler in his cover story in the February 28, 1981, issue of Error-Variety News, (where he shows excellent images of the counterfeit 1969 doubled die provided by Alan Herbert) Roy Gray and Mort Goodman received prison sentences for their involvement in the counterfeiting scheme. Later when the government reversed their position on the 1969-S doubled dies, at least some of the genuine pieces were returned to collectors.
Discovery of the variety was originally reported in July 1970 and attributed independently to Cecil Moorhouse and Bill Hudson. According to Walter Breen in his Complete Encyclopedia of U.S. and Colonial Coins:
"Moorhouse's coin came 6/16/70 in a lot of 5 rolls from the San Francisco Federal Reserve Bank via the Belmont branch of Bank of America. Secret Service Agents seized it in the mistaken belief that it was one of the Goodman counterfeits, but later returned it as genuine."
Of the grading services that publish population reports, ANACS of Austin Texas, shows they have graded seven 1969-S doubled-die obverse #1 cents ranging from XF to AU-58, Numismatic Guaranty Corporation of Sarasota, Fla., has graded nine examples ranging from AU-53 to two in mint state both grading MS-61 Brown; while Professional Coin Grading Service of Newport Beach, Calif., has graded 22 pieces ranging from VF to MS-64 with only one of seven mint state grades being classified as a full red example.
Prices for the 1969-S doubled die in uncirculated grades as found on the online PCGS Price Guide range from $40,000 for a PCGS-graded MS-60 Brown to $100,000 for a PCGS graded MS-64 Red. The guide does not offer pricing information on lower grades nor is it necessarily applicable to coins graded by other services.
The PCGS Auction Prices Realized feature on their Web site gives an average auction price for the coin in MS-64 RB as $85,000. This price apparently reflects the fact that the one full red example they have listed in their population report has not traded in auction.
Sam Lukes of Sam Lukes Rare Coins of Visalia, Calif., who tracks prices on rare die varieties like this one provided records of known sales since 2004. The following prices include the 15 percent buyer's fee where it applies:
MS-62 BN (PCGS) March 27, 2004, (Heritage Auctions), $43,700, (Live phone bid).
MS-64 RB (PCGS) Jan. 15, 2005, (Heritage Auctions), $36,800, (Live floor bid). Within a few months of this sale, the same coin was sold privately for $75,000 to a collector.
MS-61 BN (PCGS) May 7, 2005, (Heritage Auctions), $39,100, (eBay Bidder).
EF-45 (PCGS) Private sale earlier this year (2007), $22,000. MS-64 RB (PCGS August 2007 (Bowers and Merena Auctions), $85,100.
Potter stated that the coin was sent into PCGS and if it comes back as an MS-64 Red that it will tie for the highest grade with just one other coin and could easily sell in excess of $100,000, but that if it grades higher that it could sell for considerably more.
And ebay prices of the unsearched rolls has nearly doubled in price since the news came out.
Box of 20
a rip if not for the fact that it was/is a problem/fixed coin.
I saw the coin...held it in my hand. It's amazing...totally original and absolutely full mint red. And found in a roll of cents...what a score!
What's it worth...$75k to $100K????
hrh
<< <i>I saw the coin...held it in my hand. It's amazing...totally original and absolutely full mint red. And what in a roll of cents...what a score!
What's it worth...$75k to $100K????
hrh >>
Betcha it's more - something like $125k to $150k.
<< <i>I saw the coin...held it in my hand. It's amazing...totally original and absolutely full mint red. And found in a roll of cents...what a score!
What's it worth...$75k to $100K????
hrh >>
That depends, sir... what grade did PCGS assign it?
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
Box of 20
PCGS MS64RD!
Box of 20
<< <i>PCGS MS64RD! >>
With that grade I could see it in the six-figure range.
Check my ebay BIN or Make Offers!!