Torre is one class act!!
Carew29
Posts: 4,025 ✭✭
in Sports Talk
Nice to see a guy stand on his principles---sometimes it's not all about the money. If Joe would have accepted this deal, it would have showed a sign of weakness to the yankee players. It will be interesting to see how much the Yankees lose next season in revenue from their YES channel,lose of attendance,product,etc.... Now, does Mariano back up his words and leave or is he all about the money?? We will see the true character of this man soon.
A couple of negatives to follow as well
Mattingly as Mgr---he has never managed a game. Period. Players might give him respect though.
Girardi--players won't give him any respect due a manager.
You have just witnessed the end of Steinbrenner
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The Yankess will lose money from YES and the players may have a hard time (especially Jeter) accepting a new managet, but the bottom line is they will NOT lose attendance and WILL continue to win games (even without A-Rod and Rivera).
Torre is a class act though, I agree with you there. He's (arguably) the best thing that's happened to that club, from a management perspective, in a very, very long time. Why take a cut just because you had a (arguably) bad season? No way.
People ready to jump on the Mattingly, or Girardi bandwagon, saying a 'change is needed', really? A change to a guy with little to no managerial experience (and no, being a bench coach doesn't count).
Arod's going to opt out, that's a given....will the yankees back up their strong words and not enter into the free agent sweepstakes for the best player in the game? How many big name players will be gone? How will the 'fans' react when their superstar lineup is replaced by a bunch of young unknowns?
Answering to the Boss and NY media is the hard part.
http://sportsfansnews.com/author/andy-fischer/
<< <i>Nice to see a guy stand on his principles---sometimes it's not all about the money. If Joe would have accepted this deal, it would have showed a sign of weakness to the yankee players. It will be interesting to see how much the Yankees lose next season in revenue from their YES channel,lose of attendance,product,etc.... Now, does Mariano back up his words and leave or is he all about the money?? We will see the true character of this man soon.
A couple of negatives to follow as well
Mattingly as Mgr---he has never managed a game. Period. Players might give him respect though.
Girardi--players won't give him any respect due a manager.
You have just witnessed the end of Steinbrenner >>
Lose revenue next season? It's going to be mob scene for the next two years - last year in the Old Yankee Stadium and first in the new one. Mariano is a lock signing for the Yankees, and so is Posada. Girardi would command huge respect. What makes you think that he wouldn't?
<< <i>Mariano is a lock signing for the Yankees, and so is Posada. >>
Do you really think so?
I look for one or both to go elsewhere.
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<< <i>Mariano is a lock signing for the Yankees, and so is Posada. >>
Do you really think so?
I look for one or both to go elsewhere. >>
Absolute locks, and they'll get whatever they want.
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<< <i>Mariano is a lock signing for the Yankees, and so is Posada. >>
Do you really think so?
I look for one or both to go elsewhere. >>
rumor is the Red Sox wish to sign Rivera, where he will instantly become a has-been who can't throw strikes that aren't hit for extra bases. They want to make it two for two with recent signings.
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<< <i>
<< <i>Mariano is a lock signing for the Yankees, and so is Posada. >>
Do you really think so?
I look for one or both to go elsewhere. >>
rumor is the Red Sox wish to sign Rivera, where he will instantly become a has-been who can't throw strikes that aren't hit for extra bases. They want to make it two for two with recent signings.
Rumor has it that he and Gagme will be bunkmates
<< <i>Torre is indeed a great class act. One thing though, when people say it's not about the money, 99% of the time it is about the money. Joe talks about wanting committment. A committment means a term deal, more years. More years means more money. He carefully phrased his words which I have no problem with, but it is what it is. >>
A commitment is about saying he wants the respect that comes with 12 straight years of playoff experience, and that he shouldn't have to feel like they are dangling a carrot in front of him to get paid.
If it is, as Levine says, getting paid for postseason results, why aren't any of the player contracts structured this way? Simple, they offered him a contract that they knew he'd turn down.
Anyone who thinks otherwise is naive and has no idea how business works.
<< <i>Simple, they offered him a contract that they knew he'd turn down. >>
I agree with that. I'm sure that he considered the incentive insulting. The fact remains that Torre wanted more time and more money. That's fine, but most of the Torre loving world doesn't want to believe that Joe wants more money which is silly. He said the money wasn't the issue, but that's baloney.
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<< <i>Simple, they offered him a contract that they knew he'd turn down. >>
I agree with that. I'm sure that he considered the incentive insulting. The fact remains that Torre wanted more time and more money. That's fine, but most of the Torre loving world doesn't want to believe that Joe wants more money which is silly. He said the money wasn't the issue, but that's baloney. >>
Dude, you have over 14k posts, lol.
That's all :-)
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<< <i>
<< <i>Simple, they offered him a contract that they knew he'd turn down. >>
I agree with that. I'm sure that he considered the incentive insulting. The fact remains that Torre wanted more time and more money. That's fine, but most of the Torre loving world doesn't want to believe that Joe wants more money which is silly. He said the money wasn't the issue, but that's baloney. >>
Dude, you have over 14k posts, lol.
That's all :-) >>
All quality posts, I assure you
don't let GMM fool you.
<< <i>quantity, not quality.
don't let GMM fool you.
That from the man with 30,000 + posts
But Goose's are mostly quality posts, figure 20,000 worth
All mine are quality too!
HAHA.
<< <i>I think you and I are just looking at it with as much objectivity as we can and not from a sentimental standpoint. >>
Well that's exactly the point. I like and admire Torre as much as the next Yankee fan, but it is what it is.
<< <i>I think you and I are just looking at it with as much objectivity as we can and not from a sentimental standpoint. This Yankee fan is tired of the talk on this board, and especially in the general media, that Torre was this magnamious altruistic figure who sacrificed so much of himself to take the Bad News Bears to the World Series.
The fact is, he got paid unGodly sums of money to go on the most wonderful coattail ride in the history of sports. And he should kiss Steinbrenner's ass for all that he has done for him. Not the least of which is giving Torre a legitimate chance at enshrinement in the Baseball Hall of Fame. >>
except for the ass-kissing part, that's a pretty fair assessment of the reality of the situation and its history.
Alright, time to respond to a couple of Moronic post here on this thread.
1) The Yankees have done SUBSTANTIALLY and OVERWHELMINGLY more for Joe Torre, professionally and financially, than Joe Torre has ever done for the Yankees. While I appreciate the man and wish him the best, let's not make it seem like he was Mickey Mantle or something. He got the better end of the deal by A WIDE margin. He received an offer that was well over any other managers contract.
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MY RESPONSE--- Excuse me?? Instead of reading The N.Y. Times for your daily information, why don't you go look up some facts for yourself. I sure as hell don't recall seeing Steinbrenner walking out to the mound or spending any time in the dugout at any point in time. FACT--Joe made Steinbrenners point very clear today--"I DON'T CARE, JUST WIN". Please point out to me any other manager that has done what Torre did in the last 30 years.
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2) Joe Torre, from what I've read, asked for the meeting, not the other way around. It was clear all along, to me anyway, that he wanted to come back, and let's not sit here and pretend that the multimillions have nothing to do with it.
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MY RESPONSE---Again you are wrong. Joe (and Cashman) flew down to Florida (where everyone was at the time) and met at the coorporate office. Joe felt he owed that much to the orginization to at least hear it from them face to face. Joe also thought there would be negotiations, there was none.
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3) In all objectivity, Joe Torre is not worth $5 million a year. He should have never received a $19 million over 3 year contract to begin with. He shouldn't be "insulted" at the current proposal, he should thank his freakin lucky stars at all the money that Steinbrenner shoved down his throat, most of which he didn't deserve IMO.
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MY RESPONSE---Justify Alex's paycheck to me. IMO, Steinbrenner got what we all wanted him to get--tanked. Let's see if my math is correct--Alex is into Steiner for $89 million so far for a result of "NO RINGS. O.k. I 'll shut up now.
Well spoken, intelligent guy, never really thought of him that way.
Peace
45% complete.
Wake up! Why do you have this blind loyalty to the team over the people? Why are you all so much more dedicated to the name of the team rather than those who wear the uniforms? Why can't you sit down and honestly see this as what it was - the yankees FIRING Torre.
They offered him a one year deal, at a significant pay cut. Tell me, how would you feel after 12 years of employment to be brought back at a 33% pay cut, and the prospect of being forced to negotiate for your job again the very next year? Don't sit there, lie, and say you'd be ok with it. You'd tell your boss to piss up a tree, which is what Torre did.
Torre went in with one request - a 2 year contract. The fact that yankee management would look at a guy with 12 years of tenure, with the track record Torre has had, and said 'nah, you'll take this one year and like it' speaks volumes about how little regard yankee management really had for Torre.
I hope yankee brass continues with this trend, and from here on out factors in postseason success as nearly 50% of player salaries from here on out...same with Cashman and everyone else involved in running the team. If, in fact the new player contracts don't have these ridiculous demands placed in them, then it can be said with certainty that this was simply a ploy to force Torre out.
Torre was paid a large salary, no question, but he was also most certainly treated with disrespect by Yankees brass the last couple of years, too. I live in NY, and everything I've read so far seems to portray these Steinbreener sons as borderline buffons, too. It's quite comical, really.
I do think that Giaridi is a better choice, if available, than Don Mattingly, though.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
answer me one question. How would you feel if, after 12 years of killing yourself for your company, they came to you and said 'look, we will offer you a one year contract, at a 33% pay cut. You might be able to make that 33% up, but we are going to decide which people to place underneath you...you get no choice in the matter.'
Quit talking about how much torre makes in relation to other managers - it is IRRELEVANT and has no bearing on this discussion. Look at the paycut, look at the one year contract and tell me you think Torre should be gone.
Finally, tell me you that you think that future yankee player, manager, and GM contracts will be (a) one year and (b) heavily weighted towards postseason success.
<< <i>One, I don't think the next manager will get anywhere near what Torre got. >>
Why should he? None have won 4 world series, none have 12 straight playoff appearances, so why should they be paid likewise? Why shouldn't Torre's past record of success get him into a higher payscale?
<< <i>Two, no one would argue that taking a pay cut is an enjoyable event, but $5 million, plus potentially an $8 million per year contract is not anything to scoff at. >>
Forget the bonuses, let's look at basepay, as that's what is guaranteed - Torre is rewarded for 12 years of work with a 33% pay cut. That's it. End of story. Yes, a 1/3 pay cut IS something to scoff at.
<< <i>Three, how does being paid relative to other managers have NO relevance on the discussion? It is obviously one of the main reasons that caused all of this uproar to begin with. And people in all occupations are paid relative to their peers. For 2007, I believe Torre got 4x what the average manager received. >>
Really?How many players on the yankees are paid relative to their peers? What happened to the open checkbook you boasted of earlier? Wouldn't a guy with 4 world series and 12 straight playoff appearances as manager be considered the best? Shouldn't he be paid like the best? Hell, its why you give a shortstop who hits just above .300 and with 15 home runs $20 million a year, right? I mean lots of shortstops with those numbers are making about $20 million a year, right? It needs to be relative, doesn't it?
<< <i>Three, who cares about any of the past. It is a "what have you done for me lately" society. Should the Yankees just give Torre a lifetime contract at Torre's option for $7-8 million per year because of all these years he's put in. Come on??? Without the opportunity that the Yanks GAVE Torre, Torre would not be likely headed to the HoF. He, nor his family, would have the FORTUNE that they have. >>
What's up with the blatant exaggerations? Who said lifetime contract? All Torre wanted was a solid 2 year deal, not a 'lifetime contract'.
<< <i>This is the FUNDAMENTAL problem with America. Everyone feels so damn entitled to everything. As if working for it or deserving doesn't matter one freakin bit. It will be the very reason that Medicare and SS breaks this country's financial back if we don't change our attitude as a society VERY SOON. >>
Uhm, it's not as if Torre hadn't performed...12 straight years on the job with playoff appearances...pretty damn solid if you ask me. Who feels entitled here? You yankee 'fans' feel entitled to a world series win every year, that's why you are so in favor of Torre being fired. You feel ENTITLED to a world series win simply because you pay more money than anyone else. And you dare to damn Torre for wanting 2 years of sanity and peace?
<< <i>And finally, you answer me this:
How do YOU reconcile your lowly opinion of Torre as a manager with the idea of paying him ~$7-8 million per year. WAY MORE THAN HIS PEERS, whom according to YOU, he does not measure up with. >>
You never answered me how YOU would feel if after 12 years with your company, you were offered a one year term at a 33% pay cut. Your not answering tells me all I need to know: you'd tell your employer to piss off and you'd walk away, which is EXACTLY how Torre did it.
Thank you for proving my point.
<< <i>I stated that I wouldn't like it. Who would? And Torre doesn't like it and it's not a surprise to anyone. People get laid off in corporations ALL of the time. So what? it's not as if most of us are in a position to be entitled to whatever we got last year in perpetuity. >>
So you would walk away just like Torre did...and you'd do it not because of the money but because of the lack of respect.
<< <i>But once again, why should the Yanks pay Torre all that money when according to you he's such a bad manager? Just because they have in the past? Is that all the justification you can provide? If so, you're reasoning is downright awful, but that part is no surprise. >>
Why do you insist on going after money? Why don't you look at the TERM of the contract? If torre had been offered a 2 year contract, with no incentive BS, at 5 million per year, I know he'd gladly have taken it. Heard a great point today - if Torre takes the one year deal, you know what is talked about ALL next year? 'Will torre be back in 2009?' 'Who will replace Torre in 2009 if he doesn't come back?' etc. etc.
You insist on going after the money and that's not it - it was the slap in the face that a one year contract will be.
Tell me this: will the next yankee manager be brought in on a one year contract, structured the same way as Torres? Will Posada and Rivera be offered one year contracts, with nearly 50% of their pay being tied to the yankees making the world series?
<< <i>Who cares whether I would walk away or not??? Are you and idiot??? I said I DIDN'T want him back so I could care less that he walked. And my general sentiment stands. He was along for the ride. Funny how you've gone out of your way to say the same thing many times in the pase. >>
Wow, somebody is getting worked up....who cares? I care because you criticizing Torre for walking away while you YOURSELF would do exactly the same thing is very definition of hypocritical.
<< <i>Once again, why do you insist on supporting an overwhelmingly large contract to a manager that YOU feel is not very good? I could totally except your arguments from anyone else who hasn't made the enormouse amount hypocritical comments you've made on Torre. >>
Why are you so focused on trying to push this on me? I am simply pointing out how hypocritical it is to condemn a man for making a decision any one of us would have made - yourself included. If you sit there and honestly say you'd accept a one year contract from your employed who you worked for 12 years with outstanding results each of those 12 years, and do so at a 33% pay cut, I'd say you would be the weakest willed man on the planet.
<< <i>You "know" that Torre would have taken $5 million per year over two years??? And he said this where exactly??? >>
Because he has said consistently a one year deal was exactly what he didn't want...he went to that meeting in Florida with only one demand for his contract - at least two years in length. The yankee ownership didn't want to bear the brunt of firing the guy most NYers like, so they offered him this BS contract as an escape clause.
Would you, or would you not be insulted if your employer of 12 years offered you a one year contract at 1/3 your current salary, despite having been successful in every one of your 12 years?
Would you, or would you not tell your employer to go f*** themselves for offering you such a ridiculous contract?
<< <i>So you sit there writing incessantly about what an insult a 33% pay cut is and how anyone would walk away from it, but somehow, a two year deal would have made the difference in not caring about the pay cut? Hell... in that case, why not just offer him a $3 million per season over two years if a multi-year deal was what he was so intent on. Or you just somehow know that $5 million was the magic number for Torre, as long as it was two years, after writing on and on about the "insult" of it all. >>
Good god, I never said the AMOUNT of money was the insult, it was the LENGTH of time that was.
Tell me, how many baseball managers are given ONE YEAR contracts or extensions? Bueller? Bueller?
<< <i>Once again, it SHOCKS me that your head doesn't explode. I mean this in all seriousness. Get a college education. It will do wonders for you professionally and personally. >>
Now here come personal attacks, a la stown? I guess when your statements are ground down to ash you have nothing left but personal insults. And you tell me I need help?
Wow.
Talk about spineless.
Tell me something:
will the next yankee manager be expected to go year to year? Or will he be given a nice multi-year deal?
forget it....you are so ready to damn Torre and say you were calling for his head years ago that apparently taking his team to the playoffs for 12 straight years isn't enough for you. Yet YOU have the balls to complain about America's sense of 'entitlement'?
Good god.
The garbage that you spew should be considered toxic.
On that note, goodnight.
Try to stay away from the personal attacks...it makes what tiny shred of credibility you had flush down the toliet.
Axe has repeatedly stated that with the Yankees payroll they should win the World Series every year.
Axe has said the Yankees go out and buy whatever they want.
Axe always talks about the "over paying" of the Yankees.
Now the Yankees are under-paying? - And he is insulted and no one but him gets it
If the Yankees should win every year but they don't whose fault is it of not the Manager? - is it George's fault for handling the day to day stuff
Now I am not a Yankee fan and would love to see them slip into mediocre like in the 80s but those are the facts!
I know, the facts is not a world that axe-boy lives in - he is in THESIS land with the other board-delusional Commie-Boy Stalin
When are you clowns going to understand that it was about the LENGTH of time of the contract and not the DOLLAR amount?
It's apparent reading comprehension isn't your strongest suit....how many times do you need to be told that Torre's beef was not with the amount of pay but the fact it was a ridiculous one year contract?
Jesus christ.
I'm not a fan of the Yankees, but Torre is a HOF manager, and a well respected indivdual.
But Jeter will live and die a Yankee.
His number will be retired as a Yankee from start to finish.
The "boss" may be crazy, but he knows and loves Yankee tradition. This is his Captain, and the face of his team. Always will be till he retires I think. As for everyone else. Cant say.
I just think that Jeter is looked at as Ruth, Mantle, and all the other greats in pinstripes.
Not implying in ANY way his numbers, or records are better or worse. Just that he is the Mantle of his era.
He will alway's be loved by N.Y.
A few more years and it's 3000 hit club. Cant wait to see what he has at the end of it all.
Could be HUGE numbers. 4000 hits is very possible. You never know. Hes ahead of rose at this point with his age. And still doing it all. Avg, steals, doubles, triples, some power. I think he's Top Notch.
Thats just me though.
<< <i>When are you clowns going to get it?
When are you clowns going to understand that it was about the LENGTH of time of the contract and not the DOLLAR amount?
It's apparent reading comprehension isn't your strongest suit....how many times do you need to be told that Torre's beef was not with the amount of pay but the fact it was a ridiculous one year contract?
Jesus christ. >>
As I've said numerous times I don't think Torre was being completely straightforward. He phrased to the press very carefully what he wanted. He wanted a committment, but More committment = More years = More money
It's always about the money, always.
It's clear yankee management didn't want Torre back but didn't have the stones to out and out fire him.
Anyone who can't see that has no idea what's really going on here.
<< <i>He wanted MORE years, he wanted the commitment from management that he was wanted. >>
No one here can help until you repeat grade school and learn how to read all over again.