eBay cancelled my auction!

iras4

A couple of weeks ago, eBay's new rules for listing certified coins notwithstanding, I stated on a public forum
that I still intended to list certified
coins as I had been in the past. That is, large clear sharp photos of obverse and reverse combined into one
photo and a slab photo
of the obverse (but no slab photo of reverse).The enlarged photos clearly show the coins in a PCGS slab. Someone must have
complained as the listing, with 3 bids on it have been removed. I
expect more of my listings to be cancelled. I brought this on myself, I know that, but I wanted to see if they'd actually end the auction.

The auction they ended was of an 1830 half dime, PCGS MS-63, with amazing color and luster. The nasty thing was that eBay contacted my customers, telling them that I had violated the terms of listing coins in theit "counterfeit" dept in the Trust and Safty Divion, and this was done to protect the customer's safety.

I ask you, how would NOT having a photo of the back of the slab, no matter how small, afford a risk to a potential bidder?

Maybe I'll be kicked off eBay next.



Here's eBay's letter to me:

<<

Dear iras4,

You recently listed the following auction-style listing:

250175167767 - 1830 Bust Half Dime PCGS MS-63 Very PQ Amazing NR

The auction-style listing was removed because it violated the eBay
Counterfeit Currency and Stamps policy. All fees related to this
listing have been credited to your account. We also notified members
who placed bids on the item that the listing has
been canceled.

eBay does not permit the sale of currency that is improperly
described, fraudulent or counterfeit. As such, sellers of coins or
paper money are required to disclose information about the
authenticity of any items listed, including any information regarding
alterations or other information which may have a material impact on
the value of the item listed.

Sellers may only list a coin as ?certified,? if it has been certified
by one of the following authorized grading companies:

- Numismatic Guaranty Corporation (NGC)
- Numismatic Conservation Services (NCS)
- Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS)
- Independent Coin Grading (ICG)
- ANACS

In addition, listings for certified coins:

- Must be assigned the appropriate grading attributes in the Item
Specifics, including ?Grading Company,? ?Grade? and ?Serial Number?
- Include an image of the coin in its graded holder, both front and
back

***Note***
If the coin has not been certified by one of the authorized grading
companies, the coin may only be listed as raw or uncertified and is
subject to additional requirements to be sold on eBay.

For more information on the eBay Selling Coins policy, please visit:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-coins.html

Please note: violation of this or other eBay policies may result in
forfeit of eBay fees on cancelled listings, limits on account
privileges and account suspension.

To review eBay's list of Prohibited, Questionable, and Infringing
items, please visit:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/item_allowed.html

For more information on why eBay may remove a auction-style listing,
please visit:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/listing-ended.html

Thank you for your understanding.

Sincerely,

eBay Trust & Safety

<<

Ira Stein
Major Rule breaker and scofflaw

TomB

I believe the current ebay paradigm is to send that counterfeit warning letter out whenever they pull a coin auction, regardless of reason.

19Lyds

Interesting that you must include a photo of the entire back of the slab as well.

Actually, frustrating...................

LincolnsRule

They did that to me too (although I had no pictures at all). They also said "counterfeit" as the reason. They were Jefferson Nickels from the 70's. I just saw a lot of other ebay auctions with no photo of the reverse (slab or coin).

iras4

<< <i>They did that to me too (although I had no pictures at all). They also said "counterfeit" as the reason. They were Jefferson Nickels from the 70's. I just saw a lot of other ebay auctions with no photo of the reverse (slab or coin). >>



It's the e-mail that eBay sends to your bidders that is particularly frustrating. Probably standard boilerplate for all bidders of a cancelled auction, but it surely gives a potential customer the strong impression that you are engaged in a fraudulent activity.

Ira

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>

<< <i>They did that to me too (although I had no pictures at all). They also said "counterfeit" as the reason. They were Jefferson Nickels from the 70's. I just saw a lot of other ebay auctions with no photo of the reverse (slab or coin). >>



It's the e-mail that eBay sends to your bidders that is particularly frustrating. Probably standard boilerplate for all bidders of a cancelled auction, but it surely gives a potential customer the strong impression that you are engaged in a fraudulent activity.

Ira >>



Maybe they would love to get a letter from your attorney!

ajia

I brought this on myself, I know that, but I wanted to see if they'd actually end the auction.

Ira, with all due respect, NOW you don't like how they ended it?

Wouldn't have been easier, and less frustrating, to ask here?
Sounds like others had the answer to your question.

I do thank you for this bit of info though, it'll stop others from unknowningly doing the same (if they also were wanting to see how eBay would end the auction).

Could you relist, place combo pictures of the obv & rev slab, along with obv & rev large clear pictures of the coin and an explaination of why the coin was pulled and why eBay 'saw' it as a counterfeit?
I stongly doubt that regular customers wouldn't understand & new one probably don't know.

JMO

RBinTex

No hologram?

sonoranmonsoon

I had to remove 300 coins from my ebay store into the unsold category, because I did not have reverse pictures of the whole slab and the certification numbers were not on the listings. It will take a few months to get them all back up, but it will be easier than having to start from scratch because some other seller makes a complaint and has them removed completely.

flykite

TOTALLY INSANE is this ebay policy! I get it that the purpose was to keep people from selling the "slab" garbage that is out there ( from dubious sources!) but why have the holder photo? If Ira Stein (a great guy, BTW) SAYS it is in PCGS holder #....., and shows his front/back images (always the highest quality) that should be good enough! Look at his feedback; that's all you need to know.

I always hated the elementary school mentality of punishing the whole for the crimes of a few; ebay should simply crack down on anyone offering the crap in unauthorized holders.

Ed

TorinoCobra71

<< <i>

<< <i>They did that to me too (although I had no pictures at all). They also said "counterfeit" as the reason. They were Jefferson Nickels from the 70's. I just saw a lot of other ebay auctions with no photo of the reverse (slab or coin). >>



It's the e-mail that eBay sends to your bidders that is particularly frustrating. Probably standard boilerplate for all bidders of a cancelled auction, but it surely gives a potential customer the strong impression that you are engaged in a fraudulent activity.

Ira >>



Come on Ira, I know that you know how to play ball with Ebay. You have done it for quite some time and should be able to teach them some tricks. Take a photo of the slabs reverse and include it into your auction. That is all there is too it. I just recently sold a lot of 12 PCGS graded coins and had no problem with them at all........


Gary, TC71

Russ

eBay really needs to have more than just one copy/paste eMail for ending coin auctions.

Russ, NCNE

Gobrechts99Grapevine

Mr. Ira Stein
Major Rule breaker and scofflaw:

The core of the problem here is that ebay's rule, although they no doubt meant well, was not well thought through. There is no good reason for ebay to require a slab photo of the reverse. It is NOT necessary and it seems to me that it accomplishes little to enhance security, but that it WILL enable people to send all of the photos to PCGS, particularly the reverse slab photo, and then claim to own the coin in order to get PCGS to remove it from the true owner's inventory, thus enabling the fraudulently inclined ebay user to promptly register it for themselves. Partly because PCGS was already using it as a requirement, ebay should have left it out and NOT used it, but especially since I don't think it does much to enhance security. Though I must admit that I never really understood why PCGS required it either, I wouldn't be surprised if ebay got the idea from PCGS. Regardless, the end result of ebay's requirement of a slab photo of the reverse seems to me PRIMARILY to FACILITATE fraud at PCGS, rather than to discourage or deter it on ebay!

Bochiman

Everyone (except Frank ) was applauding ebay's new policy. I saw that it had many problems for legit sellers.
While I think it is good they are wanting to 'fix things' regarding the scam slabs, they have gone too far and, if the ANA is firmly behind them and helping them, then the ANA is STILL FULL OF IDIOTS at the helm!
That's MHO.

If someone is going to scam, a photo of the reverse with the slab in it is easier to show than the reverse of the coin. Ira, I have bid/won/watched your auctions for more than a few years now. You take very nice pictures and are nothing but the best as an ebay seller! Great coins!
On the flipside, I can show you some auctions where the sellers are much less but they "abide" by the ebay rules and still rook people.

Ebay either needs to do things right, and invest the time/resources to do so, or they need to step back and not impede honest sellers who may get too frustrated and go elsewhere, leaving just the slime.

Gobrechts99Grapevine

To Mr. Ira Stein,
Major Rule breaker, well-known scofflaw and notorious nogoodnik:

Think about it. Why would ebay do this? Ebay doesn't care about coins. They don't know anything about coins. They're dumber than stones when it comes to coins, and you can't reach the right people at ebay to explain anything to them. The guy you talk to can barely reach his own supervisor. The ANA made ebay do this, and the people on the boards of the ANA come from large coin shops. They don't do anything on ebay; they don't know how ebay works. So they just accidently forgot to take into account image size!

The seller on ebay gets two photos for free. Before the new rules, sellers would typically put up one obverse and one reverse coin photo. Now that ebay is requiring two new photos (the front and rear full-slab photos), if you put up four pictures the listing will cost you $1.80 more. Plenty of sellers aren’t going to want to pay the extra couple dollars, so they'll put up two slab photos INSTEAD of the two photos of just the obverse and reverse sides of the coin. The new, full-slab photos are likely to be the same OVERALL size as the previous "coin only" photos, but the size of the COIN portions of the new photos will only be one half to one sixth of the size that they used to be!

The good news is that sellers won't have to use Photoshop to touch up photos when the images buyers usually get to see are already too small to be able to discern any defects. But the better news is that the rest of the time ebay makes an extra $1.80 per listing. A classic win/win situation if ever there was one. This is obviously a great fraud protection scheme, and as for you, Mr. Ira Stein, you're just a big complainer!

wayneherndon

I think they require the reverse photo because ANACS slabs have the serial number on the reverse. It was simpler to have one set of rules for all approved slabbed coins rather than a front holder pic requirement for 4 of them and a reverse holder pic for the fifth.

Still, I think the slab picture requirement itself is dumb and adds little in the way of fraud prevention.

WH

bsb

RBinTex

Scott,

They don't catch them all.

iras4

<< <i>I think they require the reverse photo because ANACS slabs have the serial number on the reverse. It was simpler to have one set of rules for all approved slabbed coins rather than a front holder pic requirement for 4 of them and a reverse holder pic for the fifth.

Still, I think the slab picture requirement itself is dumb and adds little in the way of fraud prevention.

WH >>



Good reasoning, Wayne! I think the ANA might well have suggested both sides of the slab to eBay for that very fact! I didn't really object to eBay cancelling my auction. What really pissed me off was the fraud and counterfeit letter they sendt to my bidders for "their protection." Yep, for their protection from someone unscrupulous who would have the temerity NOT to include a reverse slab photo. Oh, the horror!

Ira

RBinTex

Why not just follow the rules?

leothelyon

On any internet auction, the pic of the coin better be nice and big so I can see just what the h--- I'm bidding on. Why's that, some of you may be wondering, and many of you already know , I'm a coin collector, I buy coins! But the way they have it set up, it doesn't look like I'll be buying through Ebay for awhile. Is there a way around having to spend the extra $1.80 to include large pics?


Leo

RBinTex

"Is there a way around having to spend the extra $1.80 to include large pics?"

Anyone that gives eBay even a dime extra to put up extra (or extra large) pics is burning money (unless you're an eBay shareholder ).

Just host them yourself and put in links to them.

e.g. I can put a hundred of the following (in any sizes I want) & not pay eBay anthing other than a gallery fee (and the fee to have the mouse-over pop-up in category).



HTML: <img src="http://www.rogerscoins.com/22025826.JPG" width="800" height="600" border="1">

i.e. <img scr="URL" ... > is the minimum needed info

You can set the width & height to whatever you want. Same for border (or you can have none).

leothelyon

Of course, I knew that. Just wanted others to be aware of it.

Thanks, Leo

Frankcoins

<< <i>TOTALLY INSANE is this ebay policy! I get it that the purpose was to keep people from selling the "slab" garbage that is out there ( from dubious sources!) but why have the holder photo? If Ira Stein (a great guy, BTW) SAYS it is in PCGS holder #....., and shows his front/back images (always the highest quality) that should be good enough! Look at his feedback; that's all you need to know.

I always hated the elementary school mentality of punishing the whole for the crimes of a few; ebay should simply crack down on anyone offering the crap in unauthorized holders.

Ed >>



Especially since certified coins have sold for two decades on the exchanges with no need for a photo or serial number. It's now more important to show a picture of the plastic than a picture of the coin. I guess the plastic worshippers got want they wanted. People forget that the major grading services do NOT use ANA grading standards, and were formed in response to ANACS's refusal to give "market grades" where coins with WEAR could be called Mint State, or a coin without full rims on both sides could be called GOOD, etc.

Frankcoins

<< <i>RBinTex said: Why not just follow the rules? >>




I find it interesting that your ebay ABOUT ME page has a link to your home page where you
offer to sell your ebay buy it now items for 5% discount off ebay.

Datentype

A coin dealer is meeting with senior officials at Ebay to discuss the following:


Issues for discussion so far:

--Implementation and enforcement of sweeping policies without proper notification or guidelines
--Individual pictures and serial numbers of commoditized coins places an undue strain on data entry resources, etc., making it impossible to sell low-margin items on eBay--it's like asking an iPod or camera dealer to include individual pictures and serial numbers of every item they sell
--Breach of confidentiality issue for dealers and customers by exposing unique serial numbers for unrestricted public view
--Opens up new avenues for insurance fraud by providing serial numbers to fraudsters
--Second Chance Offers do not comply with the new eBay policy, as the serial numbers of items and auction description would differ

Bmarkers

You are a bunch of cry babies.
Just how hard is it to combine a front/back photo of the slab?

Datentype

Bmarkers, are you ignorant enough on the subject to think that is all there is to it?

mas3387

<< <i>Just how hard is it to combine a front/back photo of the slab? >>



Take 200 - 300 hundred front and back pictures of a Slab, If you own one, and list an Ebay auction for every front and back picture you take. When you are done please tell us how easy it is. Oh by the way please keep in mind the coin you are listing will be only worth $5.00 when it cost you $14.00 grading fee.

nationaltreasureshop

<< <i>A coin dealer is meeting with senior officials at Ebay to discuss the following:


Issues for discussion so far:

--Implementation and enforcement of sweeping policies without proper notification or guidelines
--Individual pictures and serial numbers of commoditized coins places an undue strain on data entry resources, etc., making it impossible to sell low-margin items on eBay--it's like asking an iPod or camera dealer to include individual pictures and serial numbers of every item they sell
--Breach of confidentiality issue for dealers and customers by exposing unique serial numbers for unrestricted public view
--Opens up new avenues for insurance fraud by providing serial numbers to fraudsters
--Second Chance Offers do not comply with the new eBay policy, as the serial numbers of items and auction description would differ >>




...these are excellent points for eBay to consider...

If a dealer has gone to the trouble of getting a reputable TPG to certify that coin A = MS67 and coin B = MS67, then it follows that they are two items of the same commodity - much like two toasters in the same box are the same commodity...

Of course, two coins with the same grade may vary a little, but so will two toasters.

Bmarkers

I'm sorry but you are a bunch of cry babies.
Photograph the front the slab, 20 seconds, flip over and photograph the reverse, 15 seconds. Stitch both photos together, another 60 seconds.
I bet it took mas3387 almost as long to block out the cert. number in his sig line.
Please!

Bmarkers

Wait a minute. You guys are right. I have wasted seconds of my life photographing the reverse of a slab!

OMG! I could have been doing something meaningful in my life like flipping a coin to see if it pops up heads or tails, or microwaving a burrito.
I offer you my sincerest and deepest apologies.

mas3387

Bmarkers

About all I have for you is

Have a Nice Day

Bmarkers

OK, come on guy. Just what is the horror of photographing the reverse of the slab?
Is it because you are dumb enough to pay eBay to host your pictures, when many sites allow you to do it for free?
If you are a good seller and I know a lot of you are (because I've bought a lot of coins on this forum for my registry sets.) then you should have no problems with this new eBay rule.