Ducats

brogine

I have seen some conflicting information on different web sites. Does anyone know if the gold ducats used in European trade from the early 19th century into the 1920's were uniform in purity and weight?

1jester

Yes, I'd say that as a general rule, for hundreds of years, the ducat was standardized at around 3.5 grams of gold. But for the very narrow time period that you asked about, I'm not sure to what extent various political entities deviated from that.

Silvereagle82

I would agree with 1jester. Particuliarly regarding the 19th and 20 century. Prior to that starting from the early 1300s there may have been some variations by different countries but I would say not since the 1800s.

What websites are conflicting with the purity and weight?

brogine

Thanks. Wiki says us that "The ducat is a gold coin that was used as a trade currency throughout Europe before World War I. Its weight is 3.4909 grams of .986 gold, which is 0.1107 troy ounce, AGW, actual gold weight," while the Worldwide Numismatics Website informs us as follows:

1 [Netherlands] Ducat ....1814-1999....3.4940....0.9830....3.4340....0.1104

1 [Hungary] Ducat ..........1601-1881....3.5000....0.9860....3.4510....0.1110

1 [Sweden] Ducat...........1664-1868.....3.4813....0.9720....3.3838....0.1088

I could go on, but you see what I mean. I forget where else I've looked. Anyway, you never know who's cribbing from whom. . . . I used to think the number of repetitions of a version of something was a measure of reliability.

dan8402

<< <i>Thanks. Wiki says us that "The ducat is a gold coin that was used as a trade currency throughout Europe before World War I. Its weight is 3.4909 grams of .986 gold, which is 0.1107 troy ounce, AGW, actual gold weight," while the Worldwide Numismatics Website informs us as follows:

1 [Netherlands] Ducat ....1814-1999....3.4940....0.9830....3.4340....0.1104

1 [Hungary] Ducat ..........1601-1881....3.5000....0.9860....3.4510....0.1110

1 [Sweden] Ducat...........1664-1868.....3.4813....0.9720....3.3838....0.1088

I could go on, but you see what I mean. I forget where else I've looked. Anyway, you never know who's cribbing from whom. . . . I used to think the number of repetitions of a version of something was a measure of reliability. >>



According to my 20th century Krause, your Netherlands info is correct, and I can't verify the other two. But, the 1901-1915 Austria Ducat (present day restrikes included) are .9860 gold .1106 oz. AGW. So, it seems like there are at least slight differences.

brogine

Didn't that make it difficult to use a trade currency? I'm afraid I can get hung up on these kinds of details, always interested in the prime mover. If you run out of sleeping pills, look up my questions on 'gold content.'

By the way, I appreciate your responses.

GDJMSP

<< <i>Didn't that make it difficult to use a trade currency? >>



No, it didn't. If you look at the differences they are so small as to be almost neglible. That is why the ducat enjoyed such success and was the world's most popular trade coin for almost 700 years.

You may wish to read this - The Ducat

brogine

Thanks (yet again) for your contribution, GDJMSP, but, in one detail, it further clouds the issue, as the article refers to the Dutch ducat's unchanging 'specifications of 3.51 grams of .986 gold,' at odds with Dan's reference to Krause above. Not that it's that important, but I can be a nut for numbers. Maybe all the specs were true, varying with the day or what they were serving in the lunchroom at Utrecht.

worldcoinguy

Since the topic was fresh, I thought I would post this ebay auction. Disclaimer - its not mine nor am I involved in the auction, however I did buy my avatar taler from him. Its just one darn cool city view ducat from Frankfurt!

ebay link

GDJMSP

<< <i>Thanks (yet again) for your contribution, GDJMSP, but, in one detail, it further clouds the issue, as the article refers to the Dutch ducat's unchanging 'specifications of 3.51 grams of .986 gold,' at odds with Dan's reference to Krause above. Not that it's that important, but I can be a nut for numbers. Maybe all the specs were true, varying with the day or what they were serving in the lunchroom at Utrecht. >>



I think if you check Krause what you will find is that they list both 3.49 grams and 3.5 grams for Netherlands ducats in every volume. So even Krause is at odds with itself. Why ? Could be several reasons, could be mistakes, coul dbe because one coin weighed this and one that. But the most likely reason is because of mint tolerances. Be that as it may - the mint specification was for 3.51 grams ( I wrote that article ). Of that I am certain. The universal standard was always considered to be just 3.5 though. And by the way, since you are a nut for numbers, the present day ducats are made with gold of .983 fineness.