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It's now too important for the POP reports to be wrong. What to do?

braddickbraddick Posts: 24,116 ✭✭✭✭✭
in PCGS Set Registry Forum
It used to be just a nuisance when the PCGS Pops were way off. Now, with each coin being weighted by its value/Pop report it has become too important for them to remain critically wrong.
What can be done?

peacockcoins

Comments

  • Dog97Dog97 Posts: 7,874 ✭✭✭
    If you and I had the same pop 2/0 coin, yours registered and mine not, you mean I could resubmit mine 10 times and make your set ranking go down?
    Change that we can believe in is that change which is 90% silver.
  • braddickbraddick Posts: 24,116 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ((Dog97: I personally do. Most of my PCGS PO01 coins are Pop 1's...))

    peacockcoins

  • Dog97Dog97 Posts: 7,874 ✭✭✭
    Sorry bout tripping you up witht the edit but it didn't have much substance, Braddick.
    Change that we can believe in is that change which is 90% silver.
  • braddickbraddick Posts: 24,116 ✭✭✭✭✭
    But would you really want to submit your pop 02 coin that many times and not risk getting a lower grade on one of those submissions?! That seems kind of risky just to F me up on the Registry.

    peacockcoins

  • solidsolid Posts: 2,975
    One thing that would be nice would be if you could see the pop report separated by holder type (blue label, green label, older green label, small holder with older green label, etc.).

    It's not perfect, but it would weed out the multiple resubmissions that may have been done in the older holders.

    PCGS may or may not have this data available.

    When they change their holders the next time (yes, they will change them again - they will make additional "improvements", and this does help their bottom line, even when they are just getting a $5 reholder fee), they should keep the pop numbers separate.

    Ken
  • Dog97Dog97 Posts: 7,874 ✭✭✭
    Strange that you mention that Solid because PCGS says dealers will disregard the type of holder the coin is in.

    In the ruthless world of Top 5 Sets and #1 it could be possible to throw the pop report and benefit by it Braddick.
    Change that we can believe in is that change which is 90% silver.
  • braddickbraddick Posts: 24,116 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Your making two assumptions.
    1) You refer to the Registry as a 'ruthless world'. I don't see that nor is there any evidence of such.

    2) If you owned the second coin of a pop 02 wouldn't you also being messing with your own stats? Or, did you not plan on entering that coin into a Registry. If so you're only deluting the Registry for you too.
    If not, then why bother? Also, you'de be ruining your own re-sell of the coin. I still don't see anyone attemting this just to undermind someone else's Registry.

    peacockcoins

  • keithdagenkeithdagen Posts: 2,025 ✭
    OK, so how do we get rid of those MS-68 Kennedy's from 1964. Neither you or I believe they exist. You know 1 is a NGC Specimen coin and we saw the other on E-Bay with a proof holdered in error. I noticed that PCGS no longer lists the 86-D MS-69 that was really a Statue half in the Kennedy listings anymore.

    Keith
    Keith ™

  • dragondragon Posts: 4,548 ✭✭
    There is absolutely nothing that can be done with so many people playing the crackout game over the last 10 years. This is why PCGS should not use pops. as a weighting criteria, it's way too innaccurate and arbitrary. A coins market value (regardless of pop.) should be the primary criteria used for weighting purposes as pop. figures are way too distorted and can never be made accurate again.

    Dragon
  • braddickbraddick Posts: 24,116 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You're right Keith. I'm glad to see the the error Commemorative MS69 out of the Kennedy Pops!
    It would be nice to have PCGS clean up the 1964 MS68 pop registry. I wonder if I had saved that auction page and forwarded it to PCGS if that would have been enough to get rid of at least that coin?

    peacockcoins

  • BcsicanBcsican Posts: 1,068
    THIS HAS BEEN AN ON GOING PROBLEM FROM DAY ONE, THERE ARE WAY TO MANY COINS CRACKED OUT AND CERTS NOT SENT IN, AND IT WILL ONLY GET WORSE, SOME PEOPLE DO IT BECAUSE THEY DONT LIKE THE REGISTRY.... sad but true.....
    BCSICAN

    "Because I can"

    myurl The Franklin All Old Green Holder Set
  • perfectstrikeperfectstrike Posts: 677 ✭✭
    Examine the reasons for crackouts.

    #1 - it's cheaper than submitting in a holder for regrade (some of the time)

    #2 - they don't want to influence the graders opinion

    PCGS can fix the cause of #1, by lowering the cost of the regrade service. They can fix the cause of #2, by enhancing the regrade service. I've suggested PCGS profive a fully detailed attribute list explaining the reasons for the grade, if there is no improvement. I'd even be more likely to pay extra for this type of regrade.

    I use checklists for some types of work projects. Making me document reasons pro/con for subjective items makes me more likely to take a real good look.

    David
  • CarlWohlforthCarlWohlforth Posts: 11,074 ✭
    In addition to perfectstrikes suggestions (welcome ps) PCGS should pay for returned certs again.

    I just did a small submission and there is now a place for cert number on the form. This is for crossovers and regrades. Looks like PCGS is thinking about this issue.
    Carl's Coins website w/ links to Carl's auctions
  • cointimecointime Posts: 2,013 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Speaking of pop reports, has anyone noticed any possible bad data since the addition of pop data to the registry? Well, my wife has a dime set going and I try to help watch it and found something really weird. The #1 Michigan Collection 1965 MS68 dime now says "SMS" as a VAR, yet hes states "BU not SMS". The online pops says no MS68's in business strikes, but 1 MS68 in "SMS".
    As always PCGS is there and ready to address any concerns we have. May hats off to them and thanks to BJ for a very prompt reply. Anyone here have any ideas how this happened? Is the pops wrong?

    Kenny

    My Washington Type B/C Set

  • BigD5BigD5 Posts: 3,433 ✭
    I agree with Dragon. Bcsican, I don't believe the last part of your statement is true. Do you really think collectors don't send in the tags because of a dislike towards the Registry set thing? Laziness maybeimage or the fact that some just don't give a flying hoot about the whole pop. situation to begin with.
    BigD5
    LSCC#1864

    Ebay Stuff
  • pmh1nicpmh1nic Posts: 3,290 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Cracking a coin out and not resubmitting the old tag (especially with low pop coins) reduces the market value of every coin, including the one owned by the crackout resubmitter. It's counterproductive not only because it screws up the registry set numbers but affects the market value of the coins.

    On the flip side keeping the numbers accurate is very important to the guy that thinks he's buying a pop 1 or 2 coin only to find out a month or two later that he's actually getting a pop 3 or 4 coin. This is always something to consider when contemplating paying a super high grade rarity premium based on a one point difference in grade or buying what is advertised as a unique or very "rare" low pop coin (notice I didn't say low pop modern coinimage.
    The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
  • khaysekhayse Posts: 1,336 ✭
    People have been not sending in the tags much longer than the
    registry has existed.

    In their defense I would think they need a reason to send them in.
    They don't need a reason to not send them in.

    A society based on and requiring altruism is a doomed society.
    (at the least there will be incredible inefficiencies where people
    choose not to "help out".)

    Go back to giving a credit for people turning them in. You'll increase
    the percentage sent in.

    -Keith H
  • pmh1nicpmh1nic Posts: 3,290 ✭✭✭✭✭
    khayse

    I would think that for low pop coins the incentive to turn in the tag would always have been to keep the pops accurate since they have an affect on the market value of coins. The added incentive since the registry set program (again more so with low pop coins) would be to keep the set ranking accurate.
    The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
  • 7summits7summits Posts: 316 ✭✭
    You're exactly right, braddick. This can be a big bucks issue these days. Caveat emptor ! image
    image
  • BcsicanBcsican Posts: 1,068
    Big D,
    its a small number of people but I know for a fact that it does happen and continues to happen, some people are more interested in the up grade and could care less about the pop reports. Some series suffer more than others. it is sad but true....ive dealt with people that just dont care about the reports.....
    BCSICAN

    "Because I can"

    myurl The Franklin All Old Green Holder Set
  • KoinKollectorKoinKollector Posts: 388 ✭
    So when they weight the seated dime set a 43-O & 45-O will be weighted more than say an 85-S BECAUSE the pops say so?????? interesting
    Sean J
    Re-elect Bush in 2004... Dont let the Socialists brainwash you.

    Bush 2004
    Jeb 2008
    KK 2016

  • danarchydanarchy Posts: 284
    how's about a free submission with every returned cert?
    image It's Her's
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