Help with 1881-CC VAM....

bottleguy

Hi,

I'm new here and I'm hoping someone can help me out with this 81-CC. Most CCs are fairly easy to VAM out because there are usually so few varieties. The 1881CC only has 6. Should be easy... right??

As far as I can tell, this one is a VAM 1 "Normal Die", except for a large, long die gouge through the wreath. There's no dash under the "8" which rules out VAM 3. The CC mintmark is set lower than shown for VAMs 5 and 6 and doesn't appear tilted left. There is no doubling of any of the date that I can tell which rules out VAMs 2 and 4, and there is no die gouge over the feathers as in VAM 2. This leaves only VAM 1 which doesn't mention any die gouge through the wreath (neither do any of the other VAM numbers for this coin). Would a "Normal Die" VAM 1 have a die gouge such as this on the reverse??

Thanks for any input,

Rick











And, finally, the die gouge through the wreath:



Thanks again,

Rick

DorkGirl

Really nice pics. Might be that you found a new VAM.

Wolf359

Would a "Normal Die" VAM 1 have a die gouge such as this on the reverse??

Yes, but if new would be designated as a sub-variety of VAM-1, for example 1A, 1B, whatever is next in line.

However, you have a VAM-4 here (look at 11:00 in the upper loupe of the first 8, tick of metal). I agree the die gouge probably is unknown and this should receive the designation VAM-4A if Leroy agrees.

AUandAG

I don't care what the VAM is but I do care that it is yours and not MINE!

Welcome aboard!

bob

bottleguy

<< <i>(look at 11:00 in the upper loupe of the first 8, tick of metal) >>



Yep, I could have a VAM-4..... looks about right.... But,

do you mean the exact same tick of metal as shown on the 1881-O VAM-11 Page??

Ahhhhh.... the plot thickens!! Perhaps some dies from New Orleans were sent to Carson City that year??

I'm still wonderin' about that wreath on the reverse, though.....

(BTW, the picture of the date on the 1881-O VAM-11 page is my coin, also......). I'll have to compare both the O and CC coins side by side.....)

Aren't VAMS fun??

Thanks,

Rick

Wolf359

Perhaps some dies from New Orleans were sent to Carson City that year??

No record of that, and not possible I'd think. All dies came from Philadelphia...and Philadelpha only. The only exception is when the Carson City Mint closed after 1893, unused
CC dies eventually turned up in New Orleans; however they were sent to Philadelphia first. They made the O/CC coins. What may have happened here is a small hub defect with the same characteristic, both dies created in Philadelphia, one shipped to Carson City, one to New Orleans. Or just a coincidental die chip on the New Orleans VAM.

BTW, welcome to the boards.

bottleguy

<< <i>BTW, welcome to the boards. >>



Thanks!!

Similar ticks on two Philly dies from the same hub sounds logical. For now I'll go with VAM-4, although I don't see the date doubling on my coin.

Anyway, it's still the reverse I'm puzzled about.... There is quite a bit of doubling on the letters, could be hub, machine, or die fatigue. The die gouge in the wreath appears significant, also. I've looked at a dozen or so close-ups of 1881 CCs on the Heritage and other auction sites, and none of them have it.

Here's some pics of some of the reverse doubling, and another of the die gouge. Any further help with this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Rick