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How would you grade this 1850-O quarter eagle?

LongacreLongacre Posts: 16,717 ✭✭✭
I was looking at a dealer's inventory, and this coin struck my eye. How would you grade this coin? How would a TPG grade it? Would it sticker or not? What other comments do you have about the coin?


image
Always took candy from strangers
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)

Comments

  • JulianJulian Posts: 3,370 ✭✭✭
    40 with a JML sticker.
    PNG member, numismatic dealer since 1965. Operates a retail store, also has exhibited at over 1000 shows.
    I firmly believe in numismatics as the world's greatest hobby, but recognize that this is a luxury and without collectors, we can all spend/melt our collections/inventories.

    eBaystore
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,394 ✭✭✭✭✭
    NGC 53. Nice original coin, but not stickerable at that grade.
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • IrishMikeIrishMike Posts: 7,737 ✭✭✭
    How would I grade this coin-with a 5X loupe and good lighting. How would a TPG grade it--probably the same way. image And yes I am in a smart azz mood today. image I will be honest, don't know enough about the series to offer a grade opinion.
  • fcfc Posts: 12,793 ✭✭✭
    the coin just looks wrong, washed out and dead.

    should it not have some visible luster even though the strike
    was mush??

    i say 45. no luster left to be seen.
  • LongacreLongacre Posts: 16,717 ✭✭✭


    << <i>the coin just looks wrong, washed out and dead.

    should it not have some visible luster even though the strike
    was mush??

    i say 45. no luster left to be seen. >>




    fc, I just haveto meet you at CoinFest. image
    Always took candy from strangers
    Didn't wanna get me no trade
    Never want to be like papa
    Working for the boss every night and day
    --"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
  • pmacpmac Posts: 3,189 ✭✭✭
    To call it 'almost uncirculated' would be a misnomer. I think an EF45 would be about right.
    Paul
  • NumisOxideNumisOxide Posts: 10,997 ✭✭✭✭✭
    XF-40


  • << <i>the coin just looks wrong, washed out and dead.

    should it not have some visible luster even though the strike
    was mush??

    i say 45. no luster left to be seen. >>



    Washed out!?!? That's a crusty and original coin!

    NGC AU50 or 53
  • saintgurusaintguru Posts: 7,727 ✭✭✭
    XF 40
    image
  • tahoe98tahoe98 Posts: 11,388 ✭✭✭


    me thinks fc nailed it image
    "government is not reason, it is not eloquence-it is a force! like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action." George Washington
  • Lot's of crust in the cracks. Cleaned, and with the reverse wear looks like a jewelry coin. Graded from the reverse I'd give it 30 details...no slab for it. But Longacre you know coins better than I, so is this a trick question?
    OLDER IS BETTER
  • fcfc Posts: 12,793 ✭✭✭
    i like the coin but maybe the pic is not showing the luster.
    the problem with this whole situation is I not fully understanding
    southern gold.

    is this a weak strike or is it wear?

    does a weak strike ever have booming luster before it circulated?

    there is another whole world to learn about southern gold.
    i am using my general knowledge of half eagles to guess at this
    situation while it may require a more expert knowledge in this
    particular area.

    so once again i like the coin, but i do not see the luster for an AU.
    maybe in hand i would instantly change my mind!

    i am wondering if my work laptop screen just sucks for viewing
    coins. i wonder what it would look like at home on my newer monitor.

    the coin reminds me a lot like this one but i cannot see the luster.
    image

    so you have me very curious what it grades by a tpg and your
    thoughts longacre.
  • 123cents123cents Posts: 7,178 ✭✭✭
    I would think XF-45.
    image
  • gripgrip Posts: 9,962 ✭✭✭✭✭
    VF 35.

    Al
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,725 ✭✭✭✭✭
    EF40 may be lightly cleaned.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • saintgurusaintguru Posts: 7,727 ✭✭✭


    << <i>EF40 may be lightly cleaned with a brillo pad. >>




    image
    image
  • LongacreLongacre Posts: 16,717 ✭✭✭
    The coin is graded NGC 55, which should be market acceptable. As far as I know the coin is raw-slabbed. Thanks for the replies. It's interesting the range of grades that you get on a guess the grade thread.
    Always took candy from strangers
    Didn't wanna get me no trade
    Never want to be like papa
    Working for the boss every night and day
    --"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,725 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i> As far as I know the coin is raw-slabbed. >>



    What does "raw-slabbed" mean? Sounds like an oxymoron.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • I was going to say 53 or so. Coins from this era are typically weak struck and most will under grade them a lot.

    I don't think that it will sticker. It looks like a light wipe from long ago. Otherwise, it is a nice crusty coin.
  • fcfc Posts: 12,793 ✭✭✭
    i am not sure why people are calling this coin crusty.

    will someone please post a nice crusty AU quarter eagle from O please?
  • stephunterstephunter Posts: 2,324 ✭✭✭
    Softly stuck AU50
  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 23,770 ✭✭✭✭✭
    45

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 23,770 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would like to see this one in hand, but it has a decent look to it

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • saintgurusaintguru Posts: 7,727 ✭✭✭
    I'd pass on that one, thankyouanyway. image
    image
  • DaveGDaveG Posts: 3,535
    i am not sure why people are calling this coin crusty.

    will someone please post a nice crusty AU quarter eagle from O please?


    fc - you're looking at one. Admittedly, it's a higher-grade AU and so has less crust (combination of dirt and darker surfaces) than an XF coin would. Also, depending on the angle of the image/photograph, you may not be able to see luster. In any event, one shouldn't rely on an image to show a coin's luster accurately.


    For those of you who aren't familiar with the 1850-O quarter eagle:

    "The 1850-O is among the most difficult New Orleans quarter eagles to find with a good strike. Most are very weakly impressed at the centers and have an almost "sunken" appearance. On the obverse there is considerable weakness on the curls below and behind the ear and many of the stars are flat at the centers. The reverse typically has noticeable weakness on the eagle's right leg and claw and on the neck feathers. I have never seen a fully struck example and only a small number that showed even an average amount of detail at the centers."

    Check out the Southern Gold Society

  • "

    << <i>The coin is graded NGC 55 >>

    "

    Had me fooled. Thanks for the grading lesson Dave. Great info on this board. That's what brings me back. Thanks for the post Longacre. (Sure it's a 55?image)
    OLDER IS BETTER
  • fcfc Posts: 12,793 ✭✭✭
    i am going to have to dig up a pic of a mint state one tom
    to get an idea of the luster that should be on it...

    i do not mind the strike and i understand your point on that.

    i just wonder why it looks like a 45 in the pics. seems the seller
    would want to show off the luster. as for being crusty and/or
    dirty.. i am not seeing that either.


  • << <i>XF-40 >>



    I agree, It is no better than 40, I may even go 35 on it. It does not matte that it may have been softly struck once it has been circulated. It can go from MS60 to 45 in a day.
  • LongacreLongacre Posts: 16,717 ✭✭✭


    << <i>i am not sure why people are calling this coin crusty.

    will someone please post a nice crusty AU quarter eagle from O please?


    fc - you're looking at one. Admittedly, it's a higher-grade AU and so has less crust (combination of dirt and darker surfaces) than an XF coin would. Also, depending on the angle of the image/photograph, you may not be able to see luster. In any event, one shouldn't rely on an image to show a coin's luster accurately.


    For those of you who aren't familiar with the 1850-O quarter eagle:

    "The 1850-O is among the most difficult New Orleans quarter eagles to find with a good strike. Most are very weakly impressed at the centers and have an almost "sunken" appearance. On the obverse there is considerable weakness on the curls below and behind the ear and many of the stars are flat at the centers. The reverse typically has noticeable weakness on the eagle's right leg and claw and on the neck feathers. I have never seen a fully struck example and only a small number that showed even an average amount of detail at the centers." >>




    DaveG-- thanks for providing the info from the Winter book. I meant to write it up and post it but forgot to.
    fc-- do you have Winter's New Orleans book? It has a lot of information and it will illustrate how soft strikes can sometimes look like pure wear.
    Always took candy from strangers
    Didn't wanna get me no trade
    Never want to be like papa
    Working for the boss every night and day
    --"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
  • fcfc Posts: 12,793 ✭✭✭
    once again, the soft strike is not what i am discussing.
    i want to know what the luster should look like on a newly minted
    soft struck quarter eagle.

    that coin appears more then just circulated.
  • fcfc Posts: 12,793 ✭✭✭
    login to heritage if you have problems viewing the pics.

    this coin is pcgs ms62ish and has luster that shows. obvious luster. tons of it.
    image
    image

    ngc ms62ish and i see a dead coin. unless the pic is bad, where is the luster?
    image
    image

    this ngc coin is better luster wise. is it a 55.
    image

    so to summarize, i am not agreeing with the experts. obviously some 1850O QE
    have nice luster and i wish to know what is the excuse for this coin?

    a bad photo or blatant overgrading?
    after viewing many other 1850-O QE on heritage i am going to fully think that
    grade inflation has ruined a lot of people's eye. with no luster left on that coin
    in that pic, i cannot say it is AU.

    anyway. my two cents. so who will you trust? some silly tpg who over grades everything
    compared to pcgs when it comes to gold coins or the proof i just demonstarted to you
    via pics. use your own brain. buy the coin not the stupid holder.

    The coin is graded NGC 55, which should be market acceptable
    it is not market acceptable. it is borderline criminal how this situation of grade
    inflation is stealing money from collectors. ngc gives the grades dealers want.

    please note, this whole thread is based on a pic and the coin may not be like
    the pic. but i doubt that. seriously.
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,394 ✭✭✭✭✭
    it is borderline criminal how this situation of grade inflation is stealing money from collectors.

    While I will be the last person to argue that gradeflation has not taken place, I strongly disagree with the above statement. Gradeflation does not "steal money from collectors". I say this because the market reflects prevailing grading standards, not past standards. If you pay AU55 money for the OP's coin, it's only that cheap because it's an old-school XF40. If standards hadn't changed, "AU55 money" might be twice as high, or something along those lines.

    In other words, it would make just as much sense to argue that gradeflation has saved collectors hundreds of millions of dollars by providing the same grades at a lower cost than would otherwise be possible!

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • fcfc Posts: 12,793 ✭✭✭
    In other words, it would make just as much sense to argue that gradeflation has saved collectors hundreds of millions of dollars by providing the same grades at a lower cost than would otherwise be possible!
    ---

    ouch. i hate when someone does the above to me. touche.

    So the people who bought properly graded saints long ago should just crack them
    out and resubmit due to TPGs changing the grading standards every few years?

    when in rome i suppose. it just seems tpgs are not only allowing inflation to creep in
    but coins that used to BB are now getting in and creeping up in grade.

    when does it all become a big fat scam and thus criminal?
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,394 ✭✭✭✭✭
    As an aside, gradeflation has hidden some remarkable gains in the rare coin market. For example, the price guides might show XF 50-O quarter eagles as having appreciated 50% in the past ten years, when in fact (after adjusting for gradeflation) they may have tripled. Numbers are pure guesswork, but hopefully you get the point.
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,799 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>it is borderline criminal how this situation of grade inflation is stealing money from collectors.

    While I will be the last person to argue that gradeflation has not taken place, I strongly disagree with the above statement. Gradeflation does not "steal money from collectors". I say this because the market reflects prevailing grading standards, not past standards. If you pay AU55 money for the OP's coin, it's only that cheap because it's an old-school XF40. If standards hadn't changed, "AU55 money" might be twice as high, or something along those lines.

    In other words, it would make just as much sense to argue that gradeflation has saved collectors hundreds of millions of dollars by providing the same grades at a lower cost than would otherwise be possible! >>



    Another way in which gradeflation actually helps the collector is that while prices have been stagnant (or nearly so) for many coins/series, having a coin that graded XF ten years ago grade AU today allows you to get out of the coin without losing your rear.

    fc, as per your diatribe re: luster, the coin in the OP has original patinated surfaces which will only show the luster when tilted under a light. Not all attributes of coins can be revealed by the digicpic (to borrow a Dorkkarl term).
  • fcfc Posts: 12,793 ✭✭✭
    you get the point

    i do. nicely explained.

    which will only show the luster when tilted under a light.

    like i said, i am going by the picture... but an AU55, in my opinion,
    should not have to be tilted much at all to see the luster....

    it should be blatantly obvious and quite easy to see.

    but at this point the discussion has reached its end and we will agree
    to disagree on this coin in this picture. i would only bid xf45 money.

    :-)
  • mrcommemmrcommem Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Possibly softly struck. Still EF-45. Nice and crusty!!

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