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Will the Barber quarter keys change from being the "Big 3" to the "Big 4"

With the current popularity of the 1909-O Barber quarter, and the subsequent price increases for this date, will this date eventually be included within the same class as the 1896-S, 1901-S, and 1913-S key date Barbers? When I look at the recent prices that the 09-O is commanding in the circulated grades, I have to wonder. A current listing on Ebay has the "Buy it Now", for a PCGS graded F-15, 1909-O Barber quarter, as $825.00.
Ebay link to 09-O
As Mike has already brought to our attention.....a PCGS graded AU-50, 1909-O Barber quarter, is also currently listed on Ebay, with the price already up to $1,125.00.....WITH 6 DAYS STILL LEFT ON THE AUCTION!
Ebay link to 09-O
As Mike has already brought to our attention.....a PCGS graded AU-50, 1909-O Barber quarter, is also currently listed on Ebay, with the price already up to $1,125.00.....WITH 6 DAYS STILL LEFT ON THE AUCTION!
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If these prices hold, I imagine many 09-O's will hit the market. There are probably many raw F-XF coins that were never worth getting slabbed.
In other words, the 09-O population will increase at a higher rate than the big 3. Anyone wanting one of the big 3 certified, probably has done so by now. Where as the 09-O may be a different story.
The asking prices are very high for the 09-O right now, but has anyone tracked their sales?
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
Dan,
In reference to the PCGS AU 50 example - I only notified yourself and one other collector - I knew both of you would be interested in it - and if I had made a general statement on any forum, there would have been quite a few collectors throwing "their hat into the ring".
I was somewhat taken back by the amount the coin was bid to with six days left on the Ebay auction; however, the auction was pulled. My only guess for the retraction of that auction was that the auction title mentioned a PCGS AU 53 - yet, when you scrolled down to view the coin, it was in actuality an AU 50. I'm sure the seller will relist it under its correct grade.
The 1909-O is a condition rarity at the moment; once higher prices start coming for choicer AU55-58's [ the last time I checked, there was only one AU 58 is currently on the PCGS Registry ] you will see more submissions. Money will drive them out into the open, I know it.
Case in point: Peter Shireman was kind enough to sell me his better duplicate 1904-S half a few years ago in a PCGS AU 55 holder. At the time it was a POP = One coin, none finer in AU condition.
We all know what happened to the POP Report on this coin once the price escalated. I think the same thing will happen to the 09-O quarter once higher prices are established in choicer circulated grades...ie: AU 50-53-55-58.
Recently a 1909-O quarter was sold at a Heritage auction in a PCGS MS 64 holder. It generated almost $4900 with buyers fees. Last year, I purchased another MS 64 from John Marberger for $3500; I would have loved to have compared these two examples side by side.
I seriously doubt that the 09-O will ever be considered within the Top Three - or Top Four as Tom mentioned the 1897-S is truly a scarce coin as well; Its a toss up in my mind which is truly scacer in choice AU...with the 09-O edging out the 97-S just a bit.
The 1909-O in PCGS F-15 currently at auction on Ebay for an opening bid of $825 will still be available after the closing date of the auction; its a pipe dream [ at this moment in time ] that it'll sell for $825. I hope it does, I'd love to see the series take off.
Recent published Barber quarter price increases on the PCGS monthly journal still don't reflect the true color of the market in XF-AU as I know these stated prices are too conservative. [ Same thing for the Barber halves].
If the owner of the 1909-O quarter in PCGS AU 58 would be so kind as to add to this thread the image, it would be greatly appreciated. The image on the Registry is too small for any degree of study, otherwise, I would have borrowed the image myself and used it here as an attachment.
Here's my 09-O in MS 64...
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
The 1909-O has a total pop of 42 in mint state at PCGS. Let's compare this to the traditional three keys:
1901-S, the total MS pop at PCGS is 28. The 1896-S has a total of 29, and the 1913-S a total of 56. Evidently a larger number of 1913-S were saved in MS, even though the coin remains tough in circulated grades.
Other dates with low PCGS pops in MS are:
1896-O ... 34
1897-S ... 44
1898-O ... 39
1898-S ... 27 (my candidate for most under-appreciated date)
1901-O ... 40
1902-O ... 43
1911-D ... 43
It is difficult to say whether this correlates to rarity in all grades. Of course, in the more valuable dates, resubmissions also distort the pops. But I would not be surprised if the above short list of dates also turned out to be tough in all circulated grades.
Best,
Sunnywood
Sunnywood's Rainbow-Toned Morgans (Retired)
Sunnywood's Barber Quarters (Retired)
And I'm curious, what about the '98-S? Is that readily available in circ grades?
Best,
Sunnywood
Sunnywood's Rainbow-Toned Morgans (Retired)
Sunnywood's Barber Quarters (Retired)
<< <i>To those of you who are more familiar with the availability of uncertified lower grade circulated BQ's (let's say G thru VF, for example), what two or three dates do you think are the next toughest after the three keys?
And I'm curious, what about the '98-S? Is that readily available in circ grades?
Best,
Sunnywood >>
From my experience:
1897-S
1898-S
1898-O
1901-O
1909-O
Connor Numismatics Website
that its an AU 50 - was relisted correctly and the auction is about to close in a couple of hours.
As of a few moments ago, the coin was at $1775. Two bidders are going at it "head to head".
Here's what they're fighting over:
The coin closed at $1775. I PM'd the winner our congratulations.
We'll see if the winner will attach some better images.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
No he is not selling! he hardly sells anything.
jim
There are, of course, some very difficult dates to acquire, depending on the condition.
Key dates in most of these older series were recognized long ago, and whether they deserve this status or not, are firmly planted in their respective positions. Perhaps a surprise hoard will change the current "big three" status, and a severe shortage and/or popularity explosion of another date could upset the hierarchy.
I doubt it!
roadrunner
I also believe that some people are marketing certain semi-keys in hopes of fullfilling their "pipedreams". If they can find buyers, then good for them.
Great thread.
Mike, beautiful coin.
John
WTB: Barber Quarters XF
There are quite a few "keys" out there, that are overly priced and really not that rare at all. High relief saints, 09-S VDB's come to mind. Compared to the availability of an 09-S VDB in vg/fine, the 09-O quarter seems like a steal.
Think about other series (mostly seated) where stuff is truly rare in all grades, much less choice VF-low AU. There is so much out there that is still undervalued. Compare a 58-S quarter lets say in fine to a 09-O quarter in fine. The 58-S seems like a steal.
Edmund Dantes says in 'The Count of Monte Cristo'....."There is no happiness or unhappiness in this world, only a comparison of the two."
Insert rarity/commonness and you get a good numismatic saying.
Mike, I still love that 09-O...very nice coin...
John
siliconvalleycoins.com
<< <i>
There are quite a few "keys" out there, that are overly priced and really not that rare at all. High relief saints, 09-S VDB's come to mind. Compared to the availability of an 09-S VDB in vg/fine, the 09-O quarter seems like a steal.
>>
I've heard this all before and commented on it, but it's worth addressing the issue again.
A High Relief Saint Gaudens $20 is an extremely desirable coin to own, as is the 1909-S VDB Lincoln. They are examples of superior artistry and workmanship. They also stand out as rarities and unusual types within these popular series.
Availability of a given issue is only part of the equation. There are countless rare or even unique collectibles out there that have very little value.
BCCS Barber Quarter Survey 2006 Results
For the sake of this survey, the following rarity ratings were used:
R1: Common date and grade, readily available
R2: Less common - Better date and grade
R3: Tough date – available, but may require some looking
R4: Scarce – may or may not find at larger shows/auctions
R5: Very scarce – only a few offered for sale each year
R6: Extremely scarce - almost never seen, only one or two may be offered for sale in a year’s time
R7: Rare – a single specimen might, on average, be offered for sale once every few years
Date AG G VG F VF XF AU MS
1896-S R3 R4 R4 R5 R5 R5 R5
1901-S R3 R4 R4 R5 R6 R6 R7 R6
1909-O R3 R3 R4 R4 R5 R6 R5
1913-S R4 R4 R5 R5 R7 R6 R4
You can look up any Barber quarter off the BCCS website to get its relative rarity based on the 2006 survey - which I am sure does not include all collectors or their coins.
My only comment is that there is no way I'm paying $1775 for a 1909-O AU 50 coin.
I spaced out the chart to make it easier to read but it didn't go that way. The 1901-S has one more rarity listing than the others; it is for the AG. The other three start with "G".
I sure would like to get me a nice AU 1909-O however.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Speaking only of circulated original examples in the VF-XF range, I don’t think the 1909-O is quite in the same class as the ‘big three’. In my opinion the availability gap between the 1896-S and the 1909-O is fairly wide. By the way, I’ve been collecting Barber quarters for 20 years so I’m not ‘shooting from the hip’ on this.
But given this, I do think the 1909-O is the toughest non-key date, following closely behind by the 1897-S (again, in VF/XF). Both of those buggers are mothers to locate in ORIGINAL VF. Trust me on this!
Dave
Sunnywood's Rainbow-Toned Morgans (Retired)
Sunnywood's Barber Quarters (Retired)
Buying top quality Seated Dimes in Gem BU and Proof.
Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.