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Interesting Perspective on HOF Anticpated Acceptance of HR 756 Branded With Asterisk

There's an interesting article here:

Article by Rob Parker of Detroit News

by Rob Parker of Detroit News speaking about the HOF's anticipated acceptance of home run 756 branded with an asterisk. Of note, Mr. Parker states, "its plan to accept Barry Bonds' recording-breaking 756th home-run ball branded with an asterisk is wrong and could set a bad precedent. First, it sends the message that Bonds' record is tainted because of performance-enhancing drugs. That's subjective, at best. Bonds has never tested positive for steroids or any other drug. Second, and more importantly, it opens the door for collectors who donate items to determine how the items go in."

Ending, Mr. Parker wonders, "what happens if the Hall gets historic items with something negative written on them? For example, what if someone wants to donate a Ty Cobb jersey with the word "racist" written on it? Or a Pete Rose bat with the word "gambler?"

So this got me wondering if the HOF would accept the following items:

1. ARod's last homerun ball branded with "$$$$" on it;
2. Any Rafael Palmeiro homerun ball branded with a pointing finger; or
3. Any McGwire homerun ball branded with circle and around the word "Past" and a line through it.

These are just some example that immediately come to mind, but I'm sure there are many others. Your thoughts?

/s/ JackWESQ
image

Comments

  • The record is tainted and Bonds was a user of steroids, HGH and any number of drugs that he could get his hands on. Whether he "knowingly" was aware of them is debatable, but not the fact that he used them.

    why just arods ball with a $$$ on it? 90% of the ballplayers are overpaid and the other 10% are waiting in line for their big pay-days.

    Ty cobb was a racist/bigot and Rose was/is a gambler and a liar.
    Instead of painting a rosy picture of sunshine and lollipops maybe its time to face the music.
  • metalmikemetalmike Posts: 2,152 ✭✭
    tested positive? so? 4 words cream and the clear.....imho better life with chemicals, Pnaynaynay no workie? take a pill. You're kid on ya last nerve tale a pill. You a borderline pitcher? Rub ya balls with vasoline....... wanna bet......heads or tails?
    USN 1977-1987 * ALL cards are commons unless auto'd. Buying Britneycards. NWO for life.
  • It's not the hall's place for social commentary, and their acceptance of the ruined 756 ball is a travesty. If I had been in charge of the hall, I would called that Ecko dork up and told him that I wasn't going to accept any altered or defaced items for display.

    Using this same moronic line of reasoning, someone should have branded Maris' 61st home run ball with an asterisk (it's what the majority of people would have wanted, right?)

    The record is 'tainted'? In what regard? If a majority of players were using (and by all accounts they were), it's not tainted....it's simply Bonds playing on a level playing field. The pitchers throwing the ball that he jacked out of the yard were certainly juicing, and, last I recall, Bonds has never failed a steroids test.

    What's tainted here are the petty voters who feel the need to bash away at Bonds and his significant contributions to the game.
  • digicatdigicat Posts: 8,551 ✭✭
    I dunno. Letting a "statement" ball into the Hall is going to possibly open the door to something bad. I don't really want to walk through the HoF in 20 years and see "Free Mumia" carved into a donated Enos Slaughter bat on display.



    << <i>Instead of painting a rosy picture of sunshine and lollipops maybe its time to face the music. >>



    Then open up "The Hall of Shame" down the street then. When I make my visit to the HoF some day, I want to be filled with awe, not sober reflection.



    << <i>It's not the hall's place for social commentary >>


    Well, it is kinda hard to sepearte "social commentary" from the life and career of Jackie Robinson and the Negro Leagues, but I understand your point.

    Maybe they could open up a display called "When Fans Attack" and have the ball be the first thing on display. image
    My Giants collection want list

    WTB: 2001 Leaf Rookies & Stars Longevity: Ryan Jensen #/25


  • << <i>Instead of painting a rosy picture of sunshine and lollipops maybe its time to face the music. >>



    Please buy a Ty Cobb game used jersey, stitch in the word 'racist' in huge letters, and donate it to the hall....it's 'time to face the music', isn't it?

  • I dont know about that, I just love the game! If it was a Hall Of Fame about character, that would be a different story. I remember thinking that Kirby Puckett was a role model on and off the field. Watching him play you just knew he was the type of guy that did no wrong. Ooooooops! He had his troubles too!!!!! Still a great player though! Miss watching him play!
    Man I miss the 80's!!!
  • jamesryanbelljamesryanbell Posts: 1,099 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    Please buy a Ty Cobb game used jersey, stitch in the word 'racist' in huge letters, and donate it to the hall....it's 'time to face the music', isn't it? >>



    Being a racist didn't help or hurt Cobb to amass the stats that he achieved. It was all talent and work. Racism, while horrible, isn't something that taints stats.

    Steroids ARE something that taints stats. Racism is not. That is the difference, and yes, something that affects stats matters more. You know it does too.

    Probably reply: "Well, does that make anything that doesn't affect stats ok? Rose gambled...."

    Yeah, and he's not in the HOF is he? Punishment received. Of course it's not "ok", but something like steroids that taints EVERYTHING about the game (honesty, performance, health, etc), is worse, and should be treated as such.




    -- Ryan Bell


  • << <i>

    << <i>

    Please buy a Ty Cobb game used jersey, stitch in the word 'racist' in huge letters, and donate it to the hall....it's 'time to face the music', isn't it? >>



    Being a racist didn't help or hurt Cobb to amass the stats that he achieved. It was all talent and work. Racism, while horrible, isn't something that taints stats.

    Steroids ARE something that taints stats. Racism is not. That is the difference, and yes, something that affects stats matters more. You know it does too. >>





    Good point.
  • My take on this would be: Whoever owns the items can do whatever they want with them. That being the case, the Hall can decide what donations it wants to accept or not, without whining about it.


  • << <i>
    Being a racist didn't help or hurt Cobb to amass the stats that he achieved. It was all talent and work. Racism, while horrible, isn't something that taints stats.
    >>



    If it's about painting the game as it is, and if its 'time to face the music', let's let everyone have their voice heard about what they feel about a particular player.

    Let's not forget, according to the rules, Bonds has yet to fail a steroid test. While it is likely, all that is being voted upon is the speculation that he used, which is, to me, idiotic that a piece of American history can be ruined to satisfy the petty needs of a vocal minority.


  • << <i> a piece of American history can be ruined to satisfy the petty needs of a vocal minority. >>



    It's a piece of personal property.

  • baseballjeffbaseballjeff Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭
    We talk about stitching "Racist/Bigot" on Ty Cobb's jersey, we talk about marking Roger Maris's ball with an * to compare these ball players is like comparing cats and dogs. Ty Cobb, Roger Maris did not cheat the sport. Barry Bonds did. What Barry Bonds did for the hobby was wrong, and Bud Selig and rest of baseball officials are wrong too because they know this **** is going on are more concerned about making an extra buck. Like Barry Bonds always says, he sees baseball as a business. Ty Cobb, and all those guys back then did not, certainly not Roger Maris, they played because they loved the game. Sure, they made a lot of money back then. The point is, this whole era of baseball will be remembered as a sham. I truly hope that baseball takes on some across the board drug testing like they do for the Olympics.
  • Bud Selig

    Another self-promoting tool.

    He should have been "contracted" quite some time ago.


  • << <i>We talk about stitching "Racist/Bigot" on Ty Cobb's jersey, we talk about marking Roger Maris's ball with an * to compare these ball players is like comparing cats and dogs. Ty Cobb, Roger Maris did not cheat the sport. Barry Bonds did. What Barry Bonds did for the hobby was wrong, and Bud Selig and rest of baseball officials are wrong too because they know this **** is going on are more concerned about making an extra buck. Like Barry Bonds always says, he sees baseball as a business. Ty Cobb, and all those guys back then did not, certainly not Roger Maris, they played because they loved the game. Sure, they made a lot of money back then. The point is, this whole era of baseball will be remembered as a sham. I truly hope that baseball takes on some across the board drug testing like they do for the Olympics. >>




    The whole era will be remembered as a sham? Only to the self-righteous few who are delusional enough to think that, if they were in these player's shoes, they wouldn't have done exactly the same thing.

    And Cobb and Maris and others played solely because they loved the game? huh? How do you know that? Or is it perhaps more of a romantic notion that somehow, someway players of years long gone were more noble than those in front of us today?

    You think Bonds cheated the sport? I think the capacity crowds that watched him play every single night in SF would disagree with you mightily.



  • << <i> a piece of American history can be ruined to satisfy the petty needs of a vocal minority.

    It's a piece of personal property. >>



    That would be like saying if someone were to find an original, handwritten copy of the declaration of independence, that that person could do with it as he wishes, mark it up, let their kids write on it, etc. and not expect blowback from their decision.

    Either it's personal property he wishes to keep and do with as he wants, or he hands it over untarnished to the hall because it's what he wants to do.


  • << <i>

    << <i> a piece of American history can be ruined to satisfy the petty needs of a vocal minority.

    It's a piece of personal property. >>



    That would be like saying if someone were to find an original, handwritten copy of the declaration of independence, that that person could do with it as he wishes, mark it up, let their kids write on it, etc. and not expect blowback from their decision. - It would be personal property for them to do with as they please. Like it or not.

    Either it's personal property he wishes to keep and do with as he wants, or he hands it over untarnished to the hall because it's what he wants to do. Sorry. Neither you or I get to dictate how other people are to handle their affairs. Ecko wants to brand it and then donate it? That's his choice of what he wants to do with HIS property. The HOF can choose to accept it or not. That's their choice. You and I have no say it in one way or another. Like it or not. >>

  • TomTimTomTim Posts: 152 ✭✭✭
    I don't have strong feelings about this. I'm of the "private property they can do what they want" ilk. But I think the Hall of Fame is certainly not out of line by capturing the social/cultural conditions under which Bonds hit the HR. The same with the social/cultural conditions surrounding Jackie Robinson. What if one day 50 years from now Bonds is somehow completely cleared of any wrong doing? I think the branded ball will be a much more poignant symbol than just the ball. If the Hall of Fame is just a collection of stats and generic balls/jerseys/bats, it becomes a lot less interesting and a lot less educational.

    Tim
  • BunchOBullBunchOBull Posts: 6,188 ✭✭✭
    You say "vocal minority," and that the SF fans would disagree with the vocal minority. That's great, but they, the SF fans, aren't the majority, they are in fact the minority in this case. Those who have chosen to be vocal are either much more passionate about their stance on a tainted record, or this supposed "silent majority" just doesn't give a care.
    Collector of most things Frank Thomas. www.BigHurtHOF.com
  • 262Runner262Runner Posts: 606 ✭✭✭
    Say what you will about the record being tainted, however, until Barry Bonds fails a drug test or it is proven (outside of public opinion) the record is currently his and he has earned it. Someday the record will be broken by another player who probably has used the some of the same performance enhancing drugs that many believe Bonds used.

    Collecting all cards - Gus Zernial
    Post Cereal both raw and PSA Graded (1961-1963)



  • << <i>You say "vocal minority," and that the SF fans would disagree with the vocal minority. That's great, but they, the SF fans, aren't the majority, they are in fact the minority in this case. Those who have chosen to be vocal are either much more passionate about their stance on a tainted record, or this supposed "silent majority" just doesn't give a care. >>



    I think that if you did a nationwide poll and asked them if they honestly cared about baseball players using steroids, you'd find most really don't care.

    The ones that do seem to be the ones who feel that today's player's can't hold a candle to those of old, but ignoring that those 'good ole days' really weren't that good, and those players of eras past used substances such as greenies to improve their performance just as the ones today use HGH and steroids. Different eras, different methods.

  • BunchOBullBunchOBull Posts: 6,188 ✭✭✭
    You may be right, I'd like to see that poll done.

    As for competitive edge, it may be that players from the days gone by would do the exact same thing if they had the option. Competitive edge was, and is, a ball player's livelihood.

    The "what ifs" aside, I'm glad the Olympic Games, as do most singular sports, have strict requirements. Those sports are about pushing the limits of human capability; unfortunately, most American team sports are viewed strictly for entertainment purposes, with profit being the deciding factor on what is acceptable and what isn't. The only thing missing from American team sports in comparison to professional wrestling is scripting.
    Collector of most things Frank Thomas. www.BigHurtHOF.com
  • Brian48Brian48 Posts: 2,624 ✭✭✭
    I personally hate Bonds. I think he has always been an a-hole and I hate what he (and others) have wrought on the game, but I dead set against defaming the ball itself or the record books with an asterisk. We went through this with Roger Maris and I just assume never see it again. Sure, public persception is overwhelming against Bonds now, but who's to say that it won't change in decades to come? At the time, many people didn't have a problem with Maris getting an asterisk that minimalized what he accomplished. Who's to say that won't change later for Bonds, only it'll be too late for the ball since it's already defiled.
  • originalisbestoriginalisbest Posts: 5,911 ✭✭✭✭
    Bonds defiled himself long before the asterisk ball came to be. And as long as we're acknowledging Cobb as a vile racist, let's not forget to include Bonds on that score as well, baby!

    "I don't sign for white people"

    -- Barry Bonds
  • MLB should have the asterisk. They turned the other way pre-1947, and turned the other way during the so called steroid era. In fact, because they don't allow blood testing (yet), they're still turning the other way.

    Are we going to have asterisks for every record going forward? Who would know if they were "tainted" or not? Bonds is a convenient scapegoat for generations of failed policies.

    Mark B.

    Seeking primarily PSA graded pre-war "type" cards

    My PSA Registry Sets

    34 Goudey, 75 Topps Mini, Hall of Fame Complete Set, 1985 Topps Tiffany, Hall of Fame Players Complete Set
  • SDSportsFanSDSportsFan Posts: 5,086 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What's going to happen in the future when the first baseball player with bionic implants comes on the scene? How will their statistics be looked at?



    Steve
  • stownstown Posts: 11,321 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Are we going to have asterisks for every record going forward? Who would know if they were "tainted" or not? Bonds is a convenient scapegoat for generations of failed policies. >>



    Yup.

    Just as the 1919 "Black" Sox will be known as the only team to tank games back in the day.

    image
    So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
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