When buying a raw coin at auction, do get comfort when the only provenance listed is a B&M sale

Longacre

I was taking a look at an auction catalog recently that had a lot of raw coins in it. I know that raw coins are inherently evil and they should not even be looked at, other than through a reflection in a mirror. Several of the raw coins listed a single provenance that stated something along the lines of "from the Bowers & Merena October sale, 1988", or "from the Bowers & Merena April 1986 sale". We all know that B&M was one of the preeminent firms in the numismatic world, and the namesakes were actually on staff. The reputation of B&M from that era was beyond reproach.

Becauase a single provenance is listed, I am assuming that the coin was purchased by the consignor, and that it has not entered the auction area since the time of the listed provenance auction (perhaps this is a bad assumption). Assuming that this is the case, does it give you more comfort bidding on a raw coin when the coin was last offered for sale in a B&M auction (which was known for quality)? In other words, can you draw any positive conclusions from the listing of a single provenance, which is an auction from a high quality firm? Hopefully this question made some sense.

MidLifeCrisis

It would be extremely hard for me to convince myself to buy a raw coin at auction, even with the B&M provenance. Anybody can make a mistake. Even though it still wouldn't be 100% foolproof, I'd want the coin slabbed by PCGS or NGC before I'd buy - just for that added layer of protection.

roadrunner

Assuming that this is the case, does it give you more comfort bidding on a raw coin when the coin was last offered for sale in a B&M auction (which was known for quality)? In other words, can you draw any positive conclusions from the listing of a single provenance, which is an auction from a high quality firm? Hopefully this question made some sense.

You're joking right?


roadrunner

DaveG

You should go back to bed now, little boy or else I'm gonna tell your daddy that you're posting under his name!

Coinosaurus

<< <i>I know that raw coins are inherently evil and they should not even be looked at, other than through a reflection in a mirror. >>



It's worse than that, if you looked at a raw coin during an eclipse, you could go blind

Check with Barry if you don't believe me

notwilight

If the photo is good enough then would buy a raw coin from heritage given the auction description said "problem free" or otherwise addressed hairlines which may or may not show up in a photo. If I could similarly read the BandM auction description I would be ok. it is always preferred to see raw coins in hand.

--Jerry

Mark

Longacre:

I was buying from B&M's Rare Coin Review (their fixed price list) and from B&M auctions starting in the early 90s until B got out. I liked the people a lot and I liked the coins I bought from their fixed price list. That said, though, I sure wouldn't give a horses rump for the B&M provenance unless it had some other provenance associated with it. After all, when a collector contracted with B&M to auction his or her coins, B&M would then auction that collector's coins, be they really nice or be they not so nice.

For what it's worth, I purchased two raw coins in B&M auctions. One was a pattern that B&M graded PR64 and PCGS graded PR65. The other was an Isabella quarter that B&M graded MS65 and PCGS (as well as NGC) body-bagged for cleaning. So based on an incredibly small sample of "2," I see nothing particularly magic about a strict B&M provenance.

RYK

Twenty years from now, if a coin was listed as being from the Heritage Long Beach April 2007 sale, would that give you any comfort? I did not think so, and therein lies your answer.

roadrunner

Actually you should seriously think twice about purchasing high value raw coins (never slabbed) from 70's and 80's auctions. Short of them being off the market the entire period residing in a major name collection, I'd be very wary. That was the wild west and prior to 1986 (PCGS slabdom) all the auction houses were quite liberal with their grading descriptions. While you could occasionally find a coin undergraded (an offering to the dealers for attending the sale), more than likely the descriptions erred on the optimistic side.

My introduction to B&M (then B&R) auctions was in 1976. Thinking the auction descriptions "must" be legit (after all this is B&R!), I bid on about a dozen seated and barber coins. Imagine my glee when I found out I won over half the lots I bid on! The glee was shortlived once I received these choice and gem BU MS coins. The barbers all had excessive hairlines and scratches on the cheeks, and the group as a whole were mostly cleaned and problematic coins. I wasn't all that saavy at this stage in the game but I knew cleaned coins, poor luster and hairlines when I saw them. I asked permission to return the whole lot of them and shipped them all back. Needless to say old B&R was not too pleased with me. As this was my first auction "win" (lol - how ironic) with them they took them back. However they strongly suggested that I only bid on lots I see in person going forward (ie they were not going to accept returns from me again). I gladly complied with the request and ignored their auctions entirely until around 1988 when I got back into the auction action full time. By then, they were B&M, and I did get to travel to see any lots I was interested in. Things hadn't changed all that much in auction descriptions, only I ensured I saw them first.

roadrunner